Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Meet with vice-principal about honors science.

My husband & I went in and talked with the vice-principal of the junior high last week about DS14 H.S. science recommendation. It went as well as it could. Before going we were told she could NOT change the rec as my son did not have the grades. But was willing to talk with us. I was worried she was going to give us the same song & dance as everyone else. The spiel claiming nothing is wrong with regular (college prep) science & he could still get into a good college I had been hearing for weeks. There are a ton of pushy parent in my school district, and I know I have become one of them.

But she did say that she had seen my son in action in Algebra last year and does understand how focused and driven my son can be when he is challenged. (Problem is 8th grade science is boring & he doesn't complete all the busy work they give him.) She was willing to work with the counselor to draft a letter to put in his file. Told us who to talk with at the H.S. but not to bother them till summer (August since the office is practically closed in July.) But that NO she couldn't do anything, and that the H.S. would only consider him IF there was still room in the class.

I am not really getting anywhere, but I am getting sympathy. (Except from the teacher.) He yet again got a 100% on a BIG test pulling his grade back up to a A-. Despite continuing his trend of only getting B's on homework because of completion issues.

Did chat with him about the meeting with him yesterday. He is ambivalent and doesn't see the big deal. He says that while he would like to be in honor science, he also wouldn't mind having one class that won't be stressful. Four honors classes at his this H.S. usually ends in a HUGE amount of homework & stress. Yesterday, I started to wonder after talking with him if I should just drop it and the I saw his test grade today. He knows this material inside & out. Sigh, I guess I keep trying. I just hate this kind of confrontation.

It's complicated. He USED to love science. Up till junior high.. He is very interested in taking both Physics and Chemistry. Not so much Geology or Biology which are the only options offered for freshman. At this point math is by far his favorite class. The homework is predictable, it's challenging and interesting. My son has shown that he does much better in classes that he is challenged and not in classes that are just a lot of busy work. Administrators & teachers admit this, all except his current science teacher.

It is true that 4 honors classes in my H.S. is a HUGE amount of homework. And I can understand his reluctance. He is planing on joining Marching Band, and that will take up more of his free time. I would prefer he take honors Biology, and skip honors English but at this point that isn't an option. He isn't very interested in literary analysis.

The reason he isn't recommended for honors next year, is the school has a requirement that he get a 96% or better in science. He has a 99% on the tests for the year, but the homework/seatwork is the problem. He just doesn't work well with the nit picky way this teacher grades the homework. (On completion) It's the busy work that is keeping him back. My experience is that 9th grade science is just more of the same and doing more busy work isn't going teach him anything.

A friend who's kid is in the honors class this year told me the honors class is HUGE(47 kids) and the teachers look for anything to drop them back to the regular class. The kids have to be self motivated, and there is a huge amount work is writing up labs. This is what makes me ambivalent.

So while one part of me, knows that my son doesn't do well unless he is challenged. Part of me doesn't want the stress if/when he gets buried in the homework. Honestly what I would like at this point isn't really an option. Have him NOT take science at all, but take it next summer at a local private school instead. I am sure he can do the material. He probably could have done it in 6th or 7th grade.

Forgot to mention. With a 14 yr old, it get tiring trying to fight when he doesn't show much enthusiasm for it.

Uhhhh... yeah, me too, actually. I don't think I'd do it, and I say that as the parent to a HS junior who's managed this kind of course load pretty well...

One thing I'd be wary of here-- with an "honors" section that large... it's quite likely that it ISN'T as accelerated as you're imagining. My guess is that it's a feeder class for AP, and comes with a weighted GPA, yes? Yup. It's about building college resumes, not what is taught in class-- in which case its about more-more-more-more work. (In order to justify the weighted GPA, see.) Not harder. Not faster.

MORE.

Everything you've said points in that direction, honestly-- high achieving student population, helicopter/push parenting, and finally, the legendary/notorious workload...

I wouldn't do it. Not with a kid who isn't self-motivated with that kind of work, and clearly he's not.

I realize that probably isn't what you want to hear, but honestly, the system is what it is. This wasn't a surprise to anyone, right? Have you pointed all of this out to your 14yo? Has he been aware of the policy re: entry into honors?

If so, then this isn't an advocacy failure-- it's HIS failure to hold up his end of things. Sorry, at this age "it's boring" is not a good enough excuse for not turning in class work. I mean, maybe it's a reason. But that's different than a valid excuse.

I have a good idea what you're up against here-- I have a kid this age.

Why is he in other honors sections? Is this just a problem in science class? Is he doing that much better in the other courses he's in? Or is it just that there is such high demand for the honors science that the bar has to be that high? (Because honestly, 96% is way high unless there is some hard-core grade inflation happening in that class...)

Here's an idea for you to explore-- see if he can earn CLEP credits at a local college/community college. THAT ought to stand in for the middle school recommendation in a big way.

You can also use it as a bargaining chip with your DS-- he has to be self-motivated enough to study for and pass the CLEP exam, or he has to buckle down and just do the work.


FWIW, I disagree that grading on completion is necessarily "nitpicky." I think that has a reasonable place in secondary education, actually, and if the grading scheme is laid out ahead of time, well, students can hardly whine that they didn't know about the consequences of their choices. They may not LIKE those consequences, but hey-- the story of adolescence, yk?

This is my take on it, fwiw:

He's more interested in the physical sciences than he is in the science classes offered next year. He's not shown the motivation to turn in the boring busy work that makes up homework... even though it seems from what you've written that the policy for grading homework based on completion was clearly stated up front. He's told you that he doesn't care about fighting to be in the honors science class because he'd like to have one "easy" class next year. And... he's 14.

So if he was my ds, I'd not advocate to put him in the honors class. He's told you what he wants to do. At this point, it sounds like it's 100% you wanting him there - if he really wanted to get in, he could have turned in his homework no matter how boring it is or how much he disagrees with the teacher or how insane the teacher is or whatever.

I totally understand how frustrating this is for you - but at 14 I think it's time to start letting our children experience some of the consequences of not towing the line when they need to. I also don't see this as a significant problem looking down the road re college apps etc - if he is really truly passionate about science, and he ends up in a boringly slow biology class in 9th grade, he still most likely can turn that around by doing well in his boring biology class and advocating for himself with the school to put him into honors physics or honors chemistry the following year.

If this was a case where he actually wanted to be in the honors section.. I think my suggestion for this coming year would be to take biology *this* summer and test out of the requirement all together, and advocate to place him in honors physics or honors chemistry as a 9th grader.

My 2 cents - most likely not worth much!

Best wishes,

polarbear

This is why I am a bit conflicted.

I know the honors is not that accelerated, and mostly about getting to AP classes. No extra point till Honors Chemistry. But the regular class is very very easy. There isn't any middle ground. My older daughter took the regular class and it was perfect for her. (Not only not gifted but has LD's) I remember her teacher mentioning how he just tried making science "fun".

As to his other honors recs. Math there is no question, he is IN top honors now (got in b.c. of a specific test in 6th), doing well without any additional tutoring. Math is his strength and it shows as he grasps the material easily. I believe the honors English/social studies is because he writes/reads well without any particular effort. He is in the honors class for these subjects now, and the teacher feels his study skills are sufficient for honors. Most teachers once they get a chance to talk with him don't doubt the honors placement.

Partly with science I feel it's this particular teacher. My son got onto bad footing with her at the beginning of the year.

I am thinking of alternative options. Because of rules, having him take something this summer won't help.

Thanks for all the suggestions. Unfortunately if he isn't in honors he will be in Earth Science, and the Biology in 10th grade. The good stuff gets farther and farther away. I did look into if I could put him in a science class in the summer. But logistically for a number of reasons it won't work. (To do with the schools policies & current summer plans) Might consider if for next summer depending on how things turn out.

At open house tonight I had a the first chance this year to talk with his humanities teacher. She is a G&T trained teacher, who has her own gifted kids. Give him some nice compliments and gave me support and confidence that my son is up to the challenge honors classes in H.S. And her "unoffical" opinion that I should go to the high school and fight for honors science.