Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Strange choice of words

I find that my 7 yo dd (FSIQ of 149 but lower VCI of 124) has odd word choices. I have kept this opinion to myself until my neighbor, who is a teacher, pointed it out in a friendly "oh those M***-isms" - using her name basically. The only examples I can think of at the moment are:

"She damaged her finger." instead of saying somebody hurt their finger or injured it.

And she said "We are going to fetch some cars." when they wanted to flag some cars down for their lemonade stand.

I wish I could think of some others but I'm drawing a blank at the moment. But basically she just uses words that I find fit in strangely with what she is saying if that makes sense. It's really rather cute but I have been concerned lately about the possibility that she could be on the spectrum somewhere and was wondering if this might by a red flag.

I waiver between her quirkiness being a result of her giftedness or something more.

My DD does this too - I think it has to do with her super high verbal abilities and the high level audio books she listens to. The words are always used correctly, just not what you would expect from a second grader. For example every year she does a lemonade stand for charity so we were at DH's campus selling lemonade during a softball game. A student ran back to his dorm room to grab some money but told her that he was buying 2 cups - one for himself and one for his friend. When he came back to pay her DD said "Oh your companion already got his."

Not "friend". Not "the other guy". "Companion". A perfectly appropriate word but not what most kids her age would have used. Probably not what most adults would have used either. She also would say "damaged her finger" but not sure about the "fetch some cars."

Ironically there was a big fuss at school last week because she was asked to make a sentence for the word "pay" and she "couldn't think of an appropriate second to third grade level sentence" for it. She'll give you a sentence for "reimburse" or "expertise" but they were making a fuss over her not giving them a sentence for "pay". Sometimes the quirky giftedness just comes out of left field...

I don't know. I did this a LOT between age 5 and 15. Mostly it was because I learned vocabulary through reading a lot, and therefore, I had a good operational/contextual idea of what words meant, but not enough life experience to actually understand what was normative in conversational language, if that makes sense?

I can't remember some of them, but one really struck my 6th grade teacher as shocking-- when I reported a particular author's work as:

permeated, saturated, and later... perforated...

with particular qualities/characteristics.

Yes, I knew what perforated meant. I just thought that it was (kind of) applicable. I also thought it was much more spicy than repeating the term "permeated" in that essay. I also liked larger, more sophisticated vocabulary, and definitely chose to use a greater variety of words, particularly in my writing. I had learned by then that doing so VERBALLY really marked one as an oddball in the communication department.

I still occasionally choose a word that strikes others as unusual. It's more deliberate now, and I often choose that as an expression of how my own inner landscape differs from most others, I think.

This is interesting because my DS8 does this too. He's sort of beside the spectrum (doesn't meet the dx criteria) and has an ADHD dx. He also has a language processing issue, which makes it all the more curious.

I'm kind of drawing a blank too, but "I've succeeded" instead of "I won" comes to mind. I know there are a few more though.

Hard to guess if that is flexibility or inflexibility in language. Unless she is very rigid about he word choices, I'd assume she is playing with language as one might with Legos.

My younger daughter does this and has since she was two. It wasn't until we learned she has trouble pronouncing several sounds that we realized why; she simply chooses the word that is easiest for her to say even if it isn't the best. They still fit, they just seem odd coming from the mouth of six-year old with a speech impediment.

DS4.5 does this all the time. He hears a word ... he remembers it ... he uses it. He doesn't read yet but absorbs any word anywhere. As much as I keep the boys giftedness fairly hidden from our friends and everyone, I do sometimes post the stuff he says on FB for our friends to see and they all love it. None of my posts ever get so many likes like the stuff that comes out of his mouth. The child who didn't start speaking till he was almost 3 went from nothing to just the other extreme. I really wonder how he'll do once we have him tested some day. If it will show in his scores or if it's just a thing he does for everyone's amusement, including himself?

when I hear him say something unusual I ask if he knows what it means and he always give me some great definition or another word or five to substitute. So he clearly does have those words in his vocab.

My ds did this from an early age (still does but it's less obvious now that he's older)... like HK, I have always felt it was most likely due to getting his vocabulary through reading way-ahead-of-age-peers-level books. Also perhaps from listening to NPR lol!

It's not something I'd worry about unless you're seeing other things that you're worried about...

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, my ds has had WISC testing twice, and his VCI vs PIQ has flip-flopped (one higher, one lower). What has been consistent over time are his scores on achievement tests that measure verbal-related skills - those are consistently sky high. With just one WISC and a very high FSIQ, I'd wonder if your dd's VCI score is really an accurate reflection of her abilities, or if something wasn't clicking for her during the test that had nothing to do with what was being tested. Were her VCI subtest scores all similar or were there discrpancies?

my DD5 entertains herself with words, too. she chooses hilarious stuff like "that word is far too sesquipedalian for me to pronounce" when "i need help" would probably do. her teachers have commented on it (negatively - sigh) and i know it sets her apart in conversation with peers, but i'm pretty sure she'll modulate that as she gets older.

i've just put it down to her innate love of precision - if she's got a word that really nails the idea, she'll run with it...

If you have other reasons for concern I'm going to pipe up and say get a pragmatic language assessment. My DD, who has Aspergers, has a similar verbal iq (pretty stable across 3 tests each 2 yrs apart). She just recently had a language assessment, the CELF4 had wild scatter from the 99.9th down to the 40, but nothing too low, average score "normal", but well lower than VCI. The tester then administered a purely social/pragmatic language test which he best score was BELOW the 40th, ranging down to the 1st, overall score 16th which I'm thinking is 3SDs from VCI.

She's 11, it's NEVER occurred to anyone she needed a speech therapist - until I finally read enough to think "hang on these 'social' and 'behaviour' problems we are having might be a pragmatic language issue (and literalness of course)".

So my DD with a VCI in the near gifted range, great diction, good vocab, etc, is about to start speech therapy...

Adding there are lots of examples here of it being benign - but you have concerns and not just about this, which is why I suggest checking it out.

DD 6 does this and had always done this. Her use of words is curious to say the least, although always correct in terms of usage. Just not what and average child or adult for that manner might use, however I have been known to do the same thing and have learned to chose my words based on who I am talking to, although, I have been asked by a friend who is a teacher what a word meant before, apparently I still have an extensive vocabulary LOL. DD had to define lethargic to a teenager she was speaking with the other day. DD loves to play with words so I chalk it up to that.

Interesting. I just assumed DS9's vocab was different simply because he reads so much. He's always had a unique way of saying things. But now that you mention it, perhaps he said he had to "adjust his eating habits" when he lost his tooth versus "change the way I chew my food" because the "ch" sound was one of the sounds he didn't have until after speech therapy.

Yes, that is exactly the kind of thing she would do! And she can't read so I couldn't blame that. I always thought it was because my husband and I like to tease the girls by phrasing requests or question in the most obscure way possible. (Which doesn't even phase them anymore but I love the look on the friend's faces.)

To further support this... my voracious reader is DD10, who speaks very typically (unlike my "odd choice of words/language disorder" DS8).

He's getting much better - although he still has moments where he'll either make an odd substitution or he'll describe or omit a word he can't access, like: "you know, those things that keep your hands warm" instead of gloves.

The above example is more relating to a vocab slip than anything else, but this thread makes me think that there are non-spectrum kids who are simply wired differently when it comes to social language.

Last week during lunch, my son used a word that escapes me at the moment, but was one which was in common use in another era. He used it correctly in the sentence, but I told him he should use ____instead.

When he asked why, I told him that language changes over time and words are sometimes dropped from conversation and others are invented. I gave the term, "Googled" as an example of one that is relatively new and told him a story about when I was in middle school and used the word "beholden" when speaking to my grandma about owing someone something. My grandma laughed at me and said she hadn't heard that word in ages.

I explained that while the word was correctly used, it wasn't the best choice in that instance.

As an aside, I recently stumbled across a wonderful pocket spelling dictionary in a used book store; copyright 1960. I couldn't help purchasing it just to enjoy all the wonderful words and marvel at how many you never see or hear.

DS5 does this also and has done since 2. I have always assumed it was due to the high level books he has read/had read to him. He also hears a word and uses it appropriately and in context. New words have always been interesting to him - English or other languages. His passions at present seem to be language and science.

That reminds me of another one! She will often say "I defeated_____(insert name of friend here)" instead of "I beat____".

So I would say her vocabulary choices are very dramatic and not always the best choice of words.

Here are her VCI subtest scores:

Similarities 13
Vocabulary 15
Comprehension 14

I was actually very surprised when I learned that her VCI was only 124. I always just assumed she was much stronger verbally since she loves reading and writing. She certainly isn't a little dictionary but I didn't picture her PRI to be that high in comparison to her VCI. Granted she was one of those early puzzle kids and obsessively doing 100+ puzzles as a toddler.

Where can one find a tester for a pragmatic language assessment? Is this something only done through the school? She does struggle socially but again I can't decipher if it is her level of giftedness, her personality, or the possibility of being on the spectrum. Even my 9 yo has been worried about her little sister and how she doesn't have any friends.

She tends to just play by herself a lot at school, looks for bugs, digs in the dirt, plays on the monkey bars by herself, etc. She also sits by herself at lunch (according to her, not sure how accurate this is and thought about popping in one day for lunch). *IF* she plays with others I notice she has to be the boss and direct/delegate her playmates and the play.

Her VCI scores actually aren't that "low" - you're looking at them in comparison to an extremely high PIQ. If she had an average PIQ, you'd be looking at them as "really high"... seriously! They are certainly high enough (in my very un-professional opinion) high enough for her to be acquiring language such as "defeated" rather than "beat"

polarbear

My concern is more about her choice in words and fitting them in her daily conversations. I'm not too concerned with how big of words she uses or doesn't use.

I just find the words she chooses are odd in the context for which she uses them. They don't fit perfectly with what she is saying. But as others have mentioned, perhaps she is experimenting with what she knows. And I believe I mentioned already she has a rather dramatic flair which she definitely enjoys using in her speech.

In Australia my DDs assessment was done by a speech pathologist with a masters in ASD, no sure who you would see in the USA?

Following on this one because my son(4) does something similar, though in his case, I'm not sure that his word choices make sense.

For example, he's always called the signs that tell you not to do something that are a red circle with a line through it "damage" signs. And if he doesn't want something, he might make an x mark with his fingers and say "damage".

The other day, he got upset because I "boosted" him on the stairs. I didn't know what that meant and asked and he explained that it meant I went past him (boosted past him). I suppose this one could come from video games or something, but it was weird.

You know....my DD used to be much more like this, and now she isn't. I don't know what that is about. I did used to find it just a little troubling, in that it somehow read a little ASD-ish to me, in line with the "little professor" speech they describe for Asperger's. Or it just sounded a little quirky/off.

She is more likely to use big words slightly inappropriately in writing now. But she doesn't do it in speech. I have wondered if it's intentional; probably. Her social awareness gets better all the time.

She has definitely lost some of her ASD flags over the years (for instance, as I've mentioned elsewhere, she's gotten much less literal). She's always been gray area; really a tricky one.


eta: ah, just noticed what HK wrote!


Yes, I think DD has figured this out as well.

For an assessment, I'd recommend a developmental pediatrician or a neuropsychologist. There are others who can do language testing, but those two types of doctors can do the most thorough testing and help point you to where you need to go next for help.

My DS9 uses words oddly as well sometimes, and has a dx of PDD-NOS. (My favorite of his is 'verses'. I think he picked it up from a video game, but he uses it in a dozen different contexts where it doesn't quite fit, lol. "Kayden versed me today on the monkey bars, but I won.")

We have that one here too; I think it's preteen-boy slang...

DeeDee

I think that use of the word versed is fine, too :-)

This is my DS8 too, although a bit less so this year. There are many days when I ask him what he's done and he'll say "play by myself." The other day it was soccer... I guess he was kicking around a soccer ball, alone.

The school staff tell me it's by choice. They say sometimes he wants to play with the other kids, and they welcome him (phew). They say it's "just his personality - often times he's happy by himself."

I remember the Kindergarten teacher being unsure about it: "I'm not sure if he wants to play alone, or if he wants to play with the others and just doesn't know how." Now that he's in grade 3, we know it's by choice.

Speaking of digging in the dirt - the first year our current principal was here (I think DS was 6, in grade 1) he wrote a little blurb about leadership in the school newsletter, and he talked about DS digging by himself in the dirt, and how it inspired other kids to copy him. It was pretty cool

Yes!! Ha! That's another one my DS uses. (thank you). lol I'm going to have to start taking notes.

I love this. It should have its own thread... Kids quirky use of language!!! I laugh at least once a day from the way my kid words things. Yesterday, while discussing that he didn't feel well, he said "I have mucous, and that is a featured symptom of a cold according the the sign in the nurses office". What???

I don't know. This strikes me as an introverted, creative kid who, as others have said, is getting her vocabulary from reading. Honestly--as long as she is happy I don't see anything wrong with it. Think of Anne of Green Gables. Other kids always think my dd12 is British because she enunciates and has a big vocabulary and loves words. She thinks that is funny. She has friends and is happy. I am not a big believer in conforming or dumbing down vocab. to fit in. Perhaps there is some kind of issue here, but I just don't see it.
http://www.amazon.com/Some-Best-Friends-Are-Books/dp/0910707960

I think that deacongirl's 12yo DD would really have liked my own 12yo self. That's what I think.

:)Sometimes a time machine might be cool! I admire her for the way she is SO much herself. I occasionally showed what I knew, but not with the confidence she does, and I think kids pick up on that. In art class a boy called her a "goody two shoes" and she was like, "yeah, so?" Her friends were like, "well...she kind of is but we love her the way she is!"

People described my son as smart and quirky when he was seven. He does not have an autism spectrum disorder. When he was elementary school age, he had a gifted friend who was three years older who asked me how my son came up with all those words he used. I remember hearing my son describe something as having crenelated edges but don't remember anything else he said because I was so used to him talking this way and didn't think anything of it. I told the friend that he just read a lot and liked words. He didn't like reading things that didn't use a high level vocabulary. He would also use some words in an unusual way for comedic effect.

Now that he is almost 15, he looks like he could be a college student so his vocabulary might not seem as unusual, but he still would not fit in with the high school students in our small town. I sometimes listen to their conversations at restaurants and my son just seems so different and so much more mature. I really don't want my son talking the way they do.

I love listening to smart, quirky kids. I like the way they think.

Adding another one she said today.

"Don't push me violently on the swing." in place of don't push me too hard. lol

I thought of this thread the other day so decided to revive it...

DD recently spent a day visiting a 2E school. She was so excited about the prospect. She said "You do realize that every day when I go to school I have to leave 90% of my vocabulary at home - right? It's just so frustrating. I have never been able to have a conversation with another 8 year old where there wasn't at least one word I used that they couldn't understand. It would be great to have other kids who could understand what I'm talking about." This tells me DD is aware of her choice of words and tries her best to use appropriate words for her audience. It just gets very frustrating for her to feel that she is always required to "dumb it down".

Just the other night we were at the first rehearsal for a musical DD will be doing this summer. Most of the kids hadn't seen each other since the winter show ended in March so lots of hugs and big hellos all around. She was hanging out with one friend when another came up behind her and grabbed her shoulder. Instead of something like "Wow - you surprised me" she came out with "Well THAT was unnerving!"

As I was typing that I overheard her telling DH about "a realization" she had. She was also recently a bit upset at a play date with a friend who is a year ahead of her at school. I don't know what the conversation was about but as the girls walked up to the other mom and me her friend was saying "I'm sorry "DD" but I just don't know what the word perseverance means..."

"I need more personal space!" ... DS4.9 when he wanted me to move over a little while we were reading a book in his bed

This is completely my 2 boys. Neither on the spectrum. Both have always been fascinated by words, making up their own at a very young age and laughing about it. My younger, DS3.5, seems even more into words than the older DS5.5. He constantly asks about what words mean storing them in his "memory bank" for later use. We also tend to use, maybe not the most common of word choice in our family, which exposes them to more advanced language.

DS 3.5 will use sentences like "I ACCIDENTALLY hurt myself", "This dinosaur is very IMPRESSIVE", "I am very CONFUSED right now". Maybe not the most natural choice of words for a 3 year old....:-)

I think it is wonderful though when kids develop an advanced vocabulary at an early age. I really enjoy reading everyone's posts!

DS7 does this frequently as well. He does appear to be somewhere on the spectrum (diagnosis is not finalized just yet) but then this is only one symptom or behavior among many that he displays. Personally, although I realize that it can interfere with interpersonal relationships among his age-mates, I find it kind of cute. He has always been like this, though. As a toddler when I would ask him a question like "What starts with the letter O?" his response would be words like "odd" or "oblong" - just not the words you would expect to hear from a two year old

Okay, have to add one more thing on this subject. DS7 is pretty small for his age and with some of his ASD/anxiety issues, his affect can come across as fairly young as well. Today, he went to go walk to his friend's house (about a block and a half away) when a concerned citizen called the police because they thought he was a lost four year old. The police officer was very friendly and DS's buddy's mom explained to her that DS was actually 7 1/2 and lived down the street. When I asked DS what he thought about it he stated "I don't understand the commotion. I was just going out for a small stroll."

My DS4 has an interesting way with words, too. I had to get a book to record some of his sentences... he is highly entertaining.

My favourites are when he says a common place word or phrase in a different, but completely correct way. It often makes us stop and think, and then say, 'My gosh, yes you could say it that way'

I found his light on at 3am. When I asked what was going on he responded, 'I had a bad dream and was afraid so I got up and turned off the dark'

He often complains when his socks are 'outside-in' or the weather is 'unsunny'

Slip these into a conversation loaded with his usual vocabulary and it elicits many smiles.

You have a poet :-)

Ds4 uses recognised instead of realised or noticed. It only just occurred to me that when he started doing it at 3 that none of those words would be usual in a 3 year old. Oh well.