Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Coloring/writing stamina

Hi,
I need some advice or what to do next in this situation. DS (age 5) is in K. His fine motor skills seem average. As far as we know (and I've asked the teacher), there are no fine motor deficits. However, it takes him a very long time to color, especially booklets or worksheets where the pictures are tiny. K seems to have a lot of worksheets that have a lot of coloring. He also prefers to color very neatly, and that seems to slow him down too (especially on the tiny pictures).

If he does not finish coloring/completing his work, he loses out on playtime. He is very frustrated (and sad, too) because he says he does his best, but is yet not able to finish coloring in time to get playtime.

His teacher thinks that it is to do with his executive function (planning ahead to color quickly, ability to transition from crayons to pencils (on one worksheet, instead of coloring, he just shaded with a pencil), and says he is ADD. He also apparently moves very slowly when he has to get his lunchbag, pack up etc, without a real sense of urgency of time. He knows how to read an analog clock to the second, so his teacher finds his behavior very tiresome.

His writing (and handwriting) is pretty good, and he does not seem to have issues writing so much as coloring. It is definitely not as slow as coloring.

His reading and math skills seem really good. Like, he can do 1256-137 (or addition or multiplication (though not double digits) in his head (given a couple of minutes) and tell you the answer. He can read pretty much anything (even paragraphs of gibberish or nonsense words -- I would say, his reading comprehension is about end of 2nd/beginning of 3rd grade (based on his story recall/retell)

What worries me is the coloring stamina/being the last to finish. He says he does not want to do "scribble scrabble" and takes his time to color. Yet, he cannot seem to relate/comprehend that if he speeds up coloring (at the expense of neatness), he will get some play time. I did suggest it to him, but, in the moment (of doing the worksheet), coloring correctly seems more important to him.

We will be evaluating him for ADD (based on his teacher's feedback), but I went back and looked at the worksheets for each day, and days he does not get playtime, there is a ton of coloring involved.

Is there such a thing as coloring stamina (for K) and perhaps, writing stamina for the older grades ?

Tell the teacher to stop wasting your child's time with this ridiculous busywork.

Also, don't let anyone try to persuade you that your child has some kind of disorder just because your child is not conforming with someone's unreasonable expectations.

Surely the teacher would prefer careful, neat work, to rushed mess?! Sounds like you need to negotiate a deal with the teacher so that he can take unfinished work home, if it really needs to be finished, rather than lose out on play- a 5-year old shouldn't be punished for being careful and neat, and certainly shouldn't be losing their play time!

I also wanted to clarify -- the play time is inside their classroom with blocks & legos & such, that he is losing out on (not recess time). I have told the teacher to send the work home (and she has been doing that, though reluctantly), but she also says that he should learn to complete it in class, "within the time given and not make everything into a project" (her words). I've repeatedly asked her to try differentiating (my son seems very bored when he is asked to do worksheets like word families) -- but she says unless he can prove that he can do boring worksheets consistently, she will not give him engaging work. He has been assessed by the school district (through the WJ -III at the beginning of K) and his scores puts him easily at the end of 1st grade level.

He has been asked to work through playtime and work at home, if it is not complete. 4 other people in his class also seem to have similar issues (not completing work, losing out on playtime etc). That does mean though that the majority of the class (about 13 or 14 of them is able to get the work done, even if it is not done neatly)

He is much more engaged when reading a book or discussing a book or an idea or a math concept or just talking about bugs/whatever else the other person is interested in.


Yes, a lot of it is busywork. I am not sure how to tell her that without sounding disrespectful. I tried to bring it up once, but she said she has to complete the curriculum and that he has to learn to do the busy work. Sometimes, the teacher sends notes like "____ had a difficult time today and was not focused......". My son reads the entire note during pack up time (his reading speed is very good as well) and tells me on the way back home sadly. He also says he was focused, but is now thinking he is "slow". This breaks my heart, but I am trying to approach it more objectively.

What about just explaining that it isn't coloring to make a nice picture, it is just finger exercise coloring?

DS5 hates coloring. He tends to do a monochrome thing on those worksheets. Every bat, hat, cat and mat on the page will be brown. If the hat is on a man, he'll be brown too.

Uh, this does not sound like ADD! It's perfectionism! The time management issue is a bit more ADDish, perhaps, but in the absence of other symptoms, I wouldn't be concerned.

Ick. Some kids just plain HATE coloring.

Mine was one of them. I once had the brilliant idea to have my DD do those math-puzzle sheets with the hidden pictures that are revealed with correct color-coding? Yeah. Well, all that my 4-5yo DD got out of that was that (and she eventually told me so) she'd rather "do a million times with the flash cards, mama..." than do even ONE more color-it-in worksheet.

She begged me to just let her do all of the math on those sheets, and not have to do the coloring too.


Uhhhh... WOW. He. is. FIVE. Sounds like your teacher may be making the critical (and common/easy) error of assuming that your otherwise age-typical five year old SHOULD be his apparent cognitive age. He's not. He's five. MOST five year olds find it difficult to do things they dislike or find tedious/pointless. Sheesh.

They dawdle (because they don't really have an adult sense of URGENCY about much, lacking a natural sense of 'scheduling' and penalties for not meeting the 'schedule' appropriately), they meander, they explore, and they lack focus on boring tasks. Gee-- one wonders what she thinks the 'average' five year old child OUGHT to be like at that rate.

No advice. Just know that my DD has no particular fine motor problems whatsoever, and is certainly not deficient in EF (other than-- just like your child, being younger than her COGNITIVE age in that respect, and more like actual agemates, which can really throw adults who develop one set of expectations in talking with her, and find that she can't live up to them because she's actually 3-5yr YOUNGER than they are demanding).

She also hated (and still hates) coloring. Period. She likes to draw, she enjoys doing cartooning, captioning, and adores computer animation and complex art software, but she will not "color" a pre-existing picture-- with any media.

Seriously-- when pushed on this point at 4-7yo? She would have carefully selected the right colors (or, if feeling subversive, the red-green colorblind version... or maybe the complement shades... or some other snarky defiant thing) and drawn careful,LARGE X's on the items "to be colored."

OR-- if no color was specified, she'd have colored EVERYTHING one color, probably black. To indicate her displeasure.

That's why we skipped K...
DS5 also likes to colour neatly and not go over the lines. I showed him one day how he can do a quick border and shade the inside quickly then of worksheets and he is almost as fast now as the scribbling kids. He also does a lot more colouring in for fun at home now as it is not so laborious.
Your poor little guy - DS would hate missing out on playtime too.

DS5 was once doing a worksheet at home that said something along the lines of, "Color in the figures that have 3 sides". He made one little stabbing sort of line of color in each of the 3 sided figures and was done in 10 seconds. I asked him shouldn't he color them in, and he replied that the instructions read to color inside the figures, ie to "color in". He hates coloring.

The anecdote isn't a help to your DSs situation as the instructions probably don't read that way -- but is to say that while there are 4 kids being admonished for coloring too much there could be just as many being admonished for coloring outside the lines, or not enough. Or perhaps that will be next year and your DS will be rewarded for accuracy. One can hope.

I would re-approach the teacher and ask to brainstorm together about solutions to this loss of playtime, as your child is feeling discouraged. Especially if he did have ADD then time management is something that needs to be explicitly taught. The intent of the playtime reward is to teach speediness. But he's had nearly a year to have that method work and, as wonderful a method as that is, it just hasn't worked for him. Instead he just feels down about himself. So now at this point it's clear he needs some other method. If it's loss of playtime due to slow worksheet completion that's the issue, try to stick to it only and not get into the differentiation issue or him being slow to put away his coat etc, on that same day.

As one possibility to start the list of possible solutions, perhaps the teacher could alot him (or you could provide) a 5 or 10 minute (silent) timer that he turns on when he starts a coloring worksheet. That would make it very official when he is to stop, perfectly colored or not, absolving him of some of the responsibility of knowing how perfect to get about it.

Hope you find something that works. Perhaps read a book on managing ADD for more ideas of what to suggest to the teacher, even if you don't feel he has it. She might be most receptive if proffered solutions are in line with her pet diagnosis.

That type of thought process is exactly why we had to move DS9 to a different school. They seemed perfectly happy at the idea of giving him harder work - AFTER HE'D FINISHED ALL THE OTHER WORK. It was crazy-making. What he needs is differentiated work - not ADDITIONAL work. The school year is nearly over, so it's probably not worth making a giant fuss with this teacher, but if that thought process continues next year you need to step in FAST and start making hay. Don't let them shrug you off and tell you about "later" they'll do this and "eventually" he'll move onto that. It's all BS in my experience.

Thanks, everyone.


I've tried this, but my kid says he wants it to look nice.


Yes, he is a bit of a perfectionist, but only in certain areas (like coloring or writing). He hates crossing out a letter and writing. He would much rather erase the letter out. However, (and I tend to agree), erasing the letter out sort of stops the natural writing process. He also prefers to spell things correctly (he's a naturally good speller, so it has not become too much of an issue just yet)

HK, thanks. When he was in preschool, he resisted (like, openly refused to do worksheets like the math puzzle sheets with the color coding). He would, however, do the math. However, his preschool teachers forced him to color (it was a nightmare) and one day, he just started coloring in the lines. Since then, though, he has been a bit of a perfectionist when it came to coloring. He likes to color, but sort of on his terms, if it is a picture that sort of speaks to him.


This was him, till nearly 4 years and 8 months.

Now, he colors in an almost snarky, perfectionist kind of way, like the hat on the mouse would be a lighter shade of brown, while the mouse itself would be a darker shade of brown.

I talked to him more last night, and he told me he sees no point in the worksheets but does them because he does not want to get into trouble. However, he does not seem motivated enough to finish them on time. He said he thinks about other interesting things when coloring.


I will try it this weekend. I hope it works



I did request a timer, and when she provides it, he is noticeably faster. But, she does not provide it consistently. Right now, I am only worried about the loss of playtime. I am not too worried about differentiation because he reads and picks up plenty at home, on the weekends etc.

I will retry approaching the teacher. With it being so close to the end of the school year, I think she just wants to be done. But I will approach her and post up if anything changes.

I am not sure whether my kid has ADD or not. But, I do think reading a book on managing it will help and hopefully she will be more receptive.

No real advice, but atleast the year is almost over! Sounds like your child's teacher is a close relative to mine. These type of ultra structured teacher who want to make all the kids fit in the box really shouldn't teach k, in my opinion. My ds also hates to color- always has, but doesn't want to be told he is doing scribble scrabble either. It's so hard. I do agree with the above poster that if things start to look like this next year, you are going to have to intervene quickly.

My son hated coloring. He hated so much that he finished it as fast as he could just to be done with it. He is a perfectionist about some things, but coloring in the lines was not one of them. He wanted to read about interesting things like science.

The kindergarten teacher felt that coloring in the lines was so important that she wanted to hold him back a year to learn to color better since he didn't need to learn anything the next year. He could already read beyond a 5th grade level, could spell very well and could identify words that were verbally spelled out for him. He could even identify words that he had never seen before. He was also doing math above grade level including some multiplication and math with negative numbers. He could read an analog clock if there was a big enough difference in the size of the clock hands and he could count change but had to look at the nickel and quarter because size differences were a problem for him. He had undiagnosed vision issues but he was smart enough to compensate for them.

It didn't matter to the teacher that my son had a mild disability that affected endurance. His hands hurt after writing or coloring for more than five minutes. My husband and I told the teacher that we didn't care if he colored in the lines since we didn't feel it was a necessary skill. We didn't know at that time that he also had vision issues that affected fine motor skills.

We talked to the principal and a first grade teacher who told us we needed to homeschool. My son's endurance for coloring and handwriting never got much better even though he took piano lessons and did hand exercises. He is 14 now and we are still homeschooling.

Thanks, again. He did have a decent day (without coloring, but with writing). I spoke to him more -- and he told me he does not see the point of doing the booklets about "insert any topic, whether science or social studies ", because he says he can always read a book which has better pictures on it. Yet, he says he does it because he does not want to get into trouble (not realizing that he is in trouble for not finishing (therefore missing out on playtime)).


If you don't mind sharing, what was the disability ?

I had him do some worksheets today, just to strengthen his hand muscles. He did them okay, but kept placing the pencil/crayon/marker down after every couple of minutes (like it was too much to hold them till the worksheet was completed). I feel bad for him, because his written output is so out of line with verbal output (well, other than math).

Lori H's son and mine have the same disability, I believe. (our sons are very alike - except Lori's is older). It is called benign congenital hypotonia. Both of our sons have it "mildly" if you look it up on the internet our sons do not have it to the extent of it affecting walking, jumping etc. My son has it in his posture stability and hands - his muscle tone is low and his joints are hypermobile - not severely but still hypermobile enough to make writing and fine motor skills difficult and painful. You can build strength, which helps maks/accommodate the low tone but you can't "build" tone... Despite years of traditional OT is always about two years behind his peers in fine motor skills and writing.

Anyway, my son needs a scribe at school to keep up with the writing and to truly access his curriculum and show his abilities... We intend to get him on Ipads and keyboards as soon as we can. You wouldn't know anything was wrong with my son looking at him - it's 'invisible' but it is very real.

If you search back on my posts, I describe a lot of how it affects my son... you could probably learn lot and see if any of it sounds familiar for your son.

Judging by my sons improvement colouring is important to his teacher too. One of those stupid colour is the sum pictures was the only maths thing in his assessment folder this term. My so had obviously either run out of time or enthusiasm part way through. Surely once they are writing fine motor skills would be better developed by writing.

You can probably put DS5 in the "invisible but very real" disability category as well. I have a connective tissue disorder called Ehlers Danlos Syndrome (EDS). My kids have a 50% chance of inheriting it from me. DS5 seems to have it and will be seeing a geneticist in a few months. It is difficult to diagnose in kids before they are five. He's been in OT for the symptoms for over year. Writing or coloring for very long is painful, he has low tone, postural instability, hypermobility and problems with proprioception.

Reading Lori H.'s posts actually put me on the right track with what was going on.

EDS can manifest differently among family members. Since it is a collagen problem and collagen is found throughout the body, it can really look different in different people. While my son and I both have hypermobile joints and some skin issues, our secondary issues are different (at least for now) but all fall under the "things that can be wrong with you if you have EDS" umbrella.

While it is bad to have a rare genetic disorder, the good news is that if he does have it, there seems to be a supportive national foundation that has anticipated the needs of students with the disorder. Here is a nice guide they make available.

http://www.ednf.org/documents/EducatorsGuide%28r2011%29.pdf

I am taking my DS to a connective tissue specialist in June... I have been looking at a lot of the disorders and I am thinking maybe nemaline myopathy for my DS ... A relatively mild case. I am not a doctor though - just seems to fit him. Whatever it is we believe my husband has a mild case of it as well.

Son...mild hypotonia...OT helped. Hated coloring with a passion in K,1,2.

I was homeschooling and using a history curriculum that had a lot of coloring sheets and maps to color (Story of the world) and we just adapted it and he didn't color on a lot of them. Instead, he would label things and make notes on them. The maps he would label and the two of us would color them in together once he said what area to color what color (like if you were supposed to color the Upper Egypt area green he would show me the area to color and I would). Loved to cut and paste though!

One thing that is easier and can be a modification is that fat markers are easier on the hands than crayons and colored pencils. In fact, K teachers won't let kids use markers because they are a bit messier and they don't develop hand strength as well. But if a kid is having issues and you are trying to make adaptations, markers might be a starting place.

Good quality pencils with really good pencil grips on them help my DD enormously.