Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments EG/PG kid in School

Does anyone have success stories of EG or PG kids in regular school?
What accommodations or changes did you make?
Is homeschooling really the only option?

If you could recommend one thing to parents of young EG/PG kids, what would it be?

(My son is 8 and in Gr. 2)

Yes, there are many success stories here, but be prepared for a lot of advocacy. I have mentioned to you in another thread that things got better for my DS in our local school after a grade skip (plus additional differentiation and some GT pullouts). We are lucky enough to have an accelerated program for HG kids within driving distance, so we ended up finding a much better fit there, but things would have worked out in our local school. It was just a lot more advocacy work. Usually, even after a grade skip is granted, a school will think that their work is done. The fact is that pacing will still be an issue. With luck, the school will cluster kids with similar abilities together, and with more luck, they will compact the curriculum or differentiate, etc.

I think the key factor is flexibility on the part of the school, plus the creation of a partnership between the school and the parent. Most likely, the school will not have encountered many (if any) kids who are so out of the box, so a lot of the time it is a matter of getting the school to understand how differently your kiddo learns. Schools see this most quickly using their own tests they are familiar with (e.g., MAP testing is nice because they can compare where a kid is across grade levels). Another way schools can be flexible is by blocking their main subjects so kids can easily go to a class at their level (so that all math across grade levels is taught at the same time, e.g.).

Homeschooling is not the only option, and it doesn't work for everyone. It is not an option for my family as both parents need to work full time. If it is an option for your family, please note that it is a lot less work than you may imagine (and the homeschoolers here can pipe in). Partial homeschooling is also a nice option, if available in your district. You can be responsible for the classes you think the school is ill equipped to teach your kiddo (pulling him out for math, e.g.). Some schools are willing to allow advanced kids to do online math programs, like EPGY or Aleks, instead of the regular math. They may be even more willing if you are in a position to offer to pay for it.

My DD13 is a public school student. She's classified as a GT 11th grader. She also has a number of extracurricular activities and is reasonably happy with her life at this point.





Well, okay... kinda.


1. She is a virtual charter school student. Her coursework is just as rigorous as that offered at our local district high school (and in some cases, MORE rigorous, frankly)... but it isn't very challenging to her. The virtual quality means that it's just fine that her slate of honors and AP coursework only takes her 3-4 hours a day to bang out.

2. The school is somewhat flexible, obviously, about her placement. We will, during her senior year, basically be meeting basic attendance in her course schedule, and she'll take college coursework otherwise.

3. We afterschool-- and build PLENTY of "following my passions" time into things. For example, this weekend, my DD decided to learn about the acoustics in fine string instruments. She likes to drink from the firehose of learning, as we say. That kind of immersive self-directed study is seldom well-supported by formal learning environments. But it's like oxygen for some kids.

Basically, if you KNOW your child from the inside out, and you have a great deal of ability to advocate strongly and effectively, and you have a cooperative school system, then yes it can work.

It probably will involve radical acceleration and other kinds of accommodation, however. Best to know that going into things. We've never had a "plan" that worked for more than about 18 months, and the first few times, we weren't nimble/flexible enough to respond in time to prevent the fit from getting baaaaaad, bad, bad.

Here's the thing-- you MUST be able to find a way for your EG/PG child to be challenged sufficiently, EARLY enough. This is so that the child learns to tolerate challenge, know that challenges mean "work hard" not "I should quit" and that less than perfection is sometimes a good result worthy of pride in one's accomplishment.

Sometimes you can get that and leave a school placement alone, and sometimes not. It depends on a lot of things.

Yes, this. I think a lot depends on the personality of your child and how well you know your child. For example, my kid is the type who does not like to stand out much. Since he's a blender, the teachers did not see that he was in need of anything different. We got some complaints of boredom at home, and we could see by the work coming home that our DS knew this stuff years earlier. This required a lot of advocacy to get the school to do anything, when the kid appeared just fine.

My kid is also globally gifted, so a full grade skip (or two) was just fine. If you have a more lopsided GT kiddo, you will want a very flexible school that allows subject acceleration. If you have a very independent learner who is crazy advanced in or passionate about certain subjects, you may have difficulties finding teachers in elementary who can accommodate this subject. That may be a good subject to afterschool (finding mentors, etc.) So many factors, but definitely there are ways for EG/PG kids to succeed in public school. The elementary years will be the toughest, because there is so much repetition.

mcsquared, I couldn't have asked the question better myself. We are wondering the same thing about DS6, who is currently in Kindergarten. He had a wonderful Pre-K experience, but I think he had a one-in-a-million teacher. Since his WPPSI two years ago, which qualified him for DYS, we've been repeatedly told by gifted experts that homeschool is really the best environment for him. We've been working closely with his new public school, but I'm afraid they will never be able to come far enough for him.

st pauli girl, it does feel like elementary years are tough for EG/PG kids. You mention that homeschooling "is a lot less work [than] you may imagine." I do hope some homeschooling parents of young children chime in on that. It feels like it would be a ton of work, and I would always worry that I wasn't teaching him enough. It's a scary concept, but I can tell that his school isn't teaching him enough either. Even though he seems to like school, his behavior is deteriorating, so I think we need to pull him out. So much explaining and advocating for him, and he's only 6. I'm simply tired.

Looking forward to hearing more from those who have been there, done that!

Thank you,
Michelle

We homeschooled when DD was 4-6yo. It was less work than virtual school was at 6-10 yo, I'll tell you that.

I've often quipped that virtual school is the "worst of both worlds-- twice the work of homeschooling and half the freedom."


There's some truth to that.

We basically had a few workbooks, Singapore math, some Magic Schoolbus CD-ROM's, and used the HECK out of our local library. This assumes that you already have a somewhat enriched home-- which most parents of HG+ kids do anyway out of self-defense. So yes, snap-circuits, yes art supplies, yes to Playmobil sets, Legos, an easel, a garden, etc. etc.

I'm homeschooling/unschooling DS7 - who is 2e and eg/pg. We live in a non-gifted friendly state so public schools are not an option.

DS has been in two private schools - one structured with workbooks and typical curriculum; the other more Montessori. So we come to homeschooling by default and running out of formal school options.

At the structured one gifted school, he rapidly accelerated through pre-k/k/1st grade within 2 1/2 months. The headmaster then refused to bump him to 2/3rd grade class. He also refused to accommodate him in the school. He said that eg/pg kids don't fare well there. Great. We then decided to try our luck at the Montessori-type gifted school.

At the Montessori-type gifted school, DS was initially happy because the school was a one-type schoolhouse situation with 30 kids from pre-k to 8th grade. However, he was the only eg/pg kid in the school and it was awkward at times. Ds was able to accelerate in reading from phonics to 5th grade. But the math situation was a disaster and the school basically dropped the ball there. He didn't do much beyond addition, which became a problem. Talk about a headache

Today I'm somewhat doing what HowlerKarma says. We use a general curriculum guide series, which gives DS some structure and the basics. We use the HECK out of our local library system too; love that one. DS spends a lot of days reading various books or playing with his Legos or other stuff. Downtime is important too with these kids.

Like HowlerKarma, I've also found that homeschooling DS is somewhat easier than dealing with schools. For one, you don't have to contend with school personnel or trying to get them to remotely accommodate your child. Second, you've got tons of flexibility in terms of learning content and a child's pace, but also with social interactions, which can be a bigger issue with these kids. Third, a lot of the homeschooling is actually self-directed. Fourth, you can potentially have more of a handle on your child's needs with homeschooling than I ever would have imagined.

I've heard on this forum and on other lists that eg/pg can get accommodated at public or private schools. So it's possible. But I think there's tons of variables involved for an eg/pg child to attend public school regardless. It really depends on where you live, the school district, the teacher, the curriculum, the other students, your child, and on and on. It's often Russian Roulette from year to year.

At the end of the day, you're the parent and only you can truly advocate for your child and what they need. I know this too well as a 2e parent, but it's equally true as an eg/pg child. Remember, too, that homeschooling may not necessarily be for life. Remember, too, you could always try out a school and then pull them or try out homeschooling and then put them in school. Nothing is etched in stone and other options may present themselves in the future.

Sometimes it helps to think in terms of least-worst situation.

We're still experimenting. We tried public, then a public self-contained gifted program, but found that faster isn't all that dd needs. She needs deeper and more. She is the type that literally wants to know everything and becomes quite frustrated when a topic is merely glanced at without an opportunity to dive head first into it. We found a private that we think may work. It's not exclusively gifted, but it is focused on exploration and experiential learning. It's our last hope before we consider homeschooling (which would require quitting my job)...or maybe I can just drop her off at the Library of Congress and pick her up in 10 years

I'm going to suggest a subtle change to this idea. I'm not sure that work hard is what I would describe as optimal in a young child so much as learn how to think when you don't know the answer immediately.

This idea is hitting home with me this week regarding my 8-year-old 4th grader. She makes mistakes on math problems or shrugs her shoulders and gives up when she shouldn't. IMO, part of her problem is that she's too used to underchallenge, and so doesn't know how to sit and think.

Night after night, she comes home with simplistic worksheets (e.g. 18 repetitions of [1 3/4] x [2 4/5]). Every now and then, a mixed review worksheet with some decent problems will appear and she'll give up easily when she gets stuck because she hasn't learned how to think about a difficult problem. We talked about this idea tonight and she asked me to start afterschooling her in math again. So we'll go back to that tomorrow.

IMO, the problem even extends beyond acceleration and pacing. There is also a huge problem with respect to the curricula used in this country --- especially the math curricula. I find much of the stuff my kids bring home to be simplistic and repetitive, with a dose of pointlessness at times. I can often see what the worksheets are trying to do, but also feel that they often fail and muddle things up instead.

For example, 3rd - 5th grade math worksheets may have problems like this:

n + 18 = 20. n = ____.

My impression is that the worksheet author was trying to introduce "algebra" or concepts related to variables with this kind of problem, but IMO, the problems just ask the kids to guess. The ones I've seen never, ever show that these problems are actually subtraction problems and don't show methodology for getting the answer. The kids just have to figure it out.

I went through this stuff before Christmas with my DD and showed her how to move the 18 to the other side of the equals sign and why its sign changes when it gets there. I was trying to show her a big theme about doing the same thing to each side of the equation, and she was really starting to get it.

But worksheets with 18 problems that mirror n + 18 = 20 don't teach any of these ideas, and her textbook didn't present them either. Everyone just figures out the answer any possible and we move on.

It's like it's all really shiny and colorful and pretty, but there isn't much substance inside the wrapper. Argh.

Well, I agree with the repetition in math in many schools. That can be a big problem for eg/pg kids. It's been an issue with DS7. For other subjects, like history, he wants the breadth and depth, but with the math he doesn't tolerate that repetition with the worksheets.

At least with homeschooling, you can use a general curriculum guide/series and avoid a lot of the repetitive math. Those worksheets can be pretty mindless and some kids are ready for higher level much earlier than most schools can accommodate.

It can also be a physical/logistical problem with the way our schools are arranged too. A young child may rapidly accelerate through K-5/6 math curriculum but then be unable to attend an algebra or geometry class with middle or high schoolers because they're literally in another building across town/city.

Like I said, there's a lot of variables and each year seems to change. I've found it helps to be flexible and have an open mind. It's not easy to say the least.

I like Supercrunch's idea of dropping them off at the LOC for about 10 years. That gets my vote.