Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Will you consider...

...an acceleration, if one grade will most likely not be enough?

It seems like most kids do ok with going up one grade level, but more have issues to skip 2.

If you know for a fact that one will most likely not be enough, and within a few weeks/months you will more than likely just be where you are now, would you even consider the first one?

My son is attending a prestigious private school on a bursary/scholarship (there is NO WAY we can afford it). He just turned 8, in grade 2. GAI = 151, no 2e issues.

A few weeks ago, I asked him what his favourite part of school is (which he loves, by the way) - he said gym, lunch and recess. I asked him what he does the rest of the time...he replied that he just sits around and waits for gym, lunch or recess. He said he is bored. I then arranged a meeting with the teacher to discuss if there is anything we can do for him. (I did this in the beginning of the year too, his first year attending, after being homeschooled. She seemed to listen to what I was saying, and took the extra materials I gave her to keep him busy - my son has not seen any of this since September.)

So, while we went to the school to talk about DS being bored, his teacher kept on complaining that he is not listening, not paying attention and not participating. Still, he scores 100% after 100% on all tests. He is an all rounder, doing equally well across the board.
His report card looks ridiculous - Excellent for everything, except for listening and participation. (This is a comprehensive report card - with 40 scores. 36 excellence for where marks are calculated, and 4 below average - for paying attention and participation. They define "Excellent" as between 95 - 100% and below average as 60 - 65%.)

The teacher says that DS has to learn to pay attention, even if he already knows it all, because in life one needs to learn to do things that one does not always enjoy. There was no way in getting her to see things from his perspective.
He still needs to do all the worksheets the others are doing, even though it is a complete waste of his time.

Because we have a scholarship, I'm not sure if I can advocate for a grade skip as aggressively as what I think will be needed. If I do, will it jeopardize his chances of getting one again next year? Do we even want one?

Also, as he learns SO fast, I'm not even sure that it will make much of a difference. He needs to hear something once or twice to remember and understand it. Spanish was new to him, but within 3 months he has completely caught up and surpassed kids who have been learning Spanish for the last 3.5 years.

He is very social and gets along well with all people. He can fit himself to his company quickly and seems to be a leader in his class. He is well liked by peers.

BUT, he is weird too...
He does not play with toys like most kids do. Going to the toy store is about just as exciting as looking for new underpants. Lego, cars, planes, science kits, you name it - it does not excite him one bit. He spends his time playing piano, and mostly, daydreaming. (To his teacher's dismay.) While his friends are in his room, playing with his vast amount of lego, he was memorizing Pi! He did not strike me as the typical "nerdy" type, but I'm wondering if this will develop as he gets older. Not that I mind - my husband is so
I'm hoping that as he gets older, he will find something which will consume him and keep him busy, because, frankly, dealing with him is exhausting.

But I guess this is a topic for another post....

After all this rambling, my question is this:
Do you think I should advocate for a acceleration? Will it help, or just be more of the same?

When did your older children with similar "weirdness" regarding toys find their "passion"?

I think that's long enough for now. *sigh*

I think I would try for the best I could get, personally. I wouldn't avoid a grade skip just because it might not be enough; I'd go for it and then address any issues down the road when I meet them.

And I have to say, I am so tired of teacher's saying kids need to learn patience, etc... Yes, they do. But they also need to learn to work hard and to tackle challenges. His peers aren't learning patience right now- they are learning to work. And frankly, he's being disadvantaged down the road by not learning that skill.

Good luck to you. It sounds like you have a great (even if exhausting) kiddo! Have you sent in stuff for DYS? Perhaps the education consultants there could help you.

My DS 5 PG is accelerated 1 grade in private school. If it weren't for the effort of the teacher giving him work SOMEWHAT close to his level it wouldn't make a difference that he is accelerated.

Frankly, I think it is ridiculous that your kiddo has to sit through the same work sheets when he is so much more advanced. They do not make my DS do the work the other kids do. When the class is doing sight words DS is writing stories. He does completely different math that the rest of the class.

I can see being on a scholarship might make you feel uncomfortable asking for things, but they have a GEM in your son and it should be in their interest to nurture the incredible potential in him. Kids like him don't come along very often and they are lucky to have him at their school.

So, to answer one of your questions, not sure a 1 grade acceleration would do much. I would instead focus on getting them to subject accelerate. Esp.if he gets along with the kids in class.

A few random thoughts:

I wouldn't not do something just because it wasn't the ultimately best answer. Very few of us here have found the ideal solution to educating our HG/EG/PG kids - if you feel like your ds would benefit from a two grade acceleration, and only a one grade acceleration was offered, I'd go for it.

I wouldn't shy away from talking with the school about the need for more challenge simply because it's a private school and your ds is on scholarship. Clearly they must have wanted your child to be at the school if they offered a scholarship. Also remember, what you see looking in from the outside at a private school might look quite differently than looking at the situation from the perspective of the school's board or financial situation etc. They might actually *need* or at least benefit in some way from having your child enrolled. Obviously it's going to depend on the school, but it's possible they may really want to work with you.

This is just *me*, but fwiw, we chose to subject accelerate and after-school rather than grade accelerate. It's been easier to make multiple grade leaps in individual subjects, and it's allowed ds to stay in a grade with his peers where he is comfortable. Some kids want or don't mind jumping ahead of their age-peers, our ds was happy where he was socially.

One problem that you may run into with either full-grade or single-subject acceleration is that if your ds is placed in a classroom of typically-achieving students (instead of a rapidly-paced or indivually-paced classroom), he might still find that school is boring because it's slow - even if he's accelerated by several years. That has happened to our ds, but it's also something he doesn't really mind in the overall scheme of things because he likes his classmates and he likes his school.

Last thing I'll add - I have three children, each with different degrees of ability, and every single danged one of them, at 8 years old, told me recess and lunch were their very favorite parts of their school day. So did most of their friends, most of our many nieces and nephews, and most likely any random 8 year old we ran into at the park or anywhere on the planet. I don't doubt that your ds needs more challenge, but I wouldn't go to the school and use the preferring recess and lunch as signs he needs more challenge or as signs he's clearly bored. Chances are most of his classroom peers also prefer lunch and recess

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - one thing about the low marks on paying attention and participation - my ds used to get remarks from his teachers about how he was staring off into space etc in early elementary, and I understand how his teachers thought he wasn't paying attention because of it (and to their credit, he was most likely daydreaming during part of that staring off into space!)... but I wonder about the participation marks - have the teachers said he isn't participating? Is that in not doing worksheets etc he finds boring, or does he not participate in group projects or class discussions etc? I'd want to know a bit more of the details on participation, because it's possible that if he did jump in and try to participate in class more he might find it less boring (one possibility)... or there may be a reason other than being bored that he's not participating and it might be helpful to know what's up. Lastly, if he's not participating only because he's bored, if he was my ds, I'd encourage him to try. Naturally you don't want him in a situation where he's bored stiff all the time, but that's our where our role as parents comes into play we advocate to get our kids more challenge. I still expect my kids to at least participate in class while they're there, even if it's not the ideal level of challenge.

Regarding only likeing lunch and recess:
He said that "I'm born and then I die, nothing ever happens in my life."

This is from a kid who plays 2 instruments (piano and violin), plays hockey, is kept busy over weekends (because he does not do it himself), goes on many outings, has many playdates, etc.

It's just not enough. There is really not enough hours in the day. I have tried scaling back, thinking he was maybe kept to busy, but it just made him (and all around him) miserable.

In regards to participating in class:
We have encouraged him to participate in class more, but he told me that the teacher stops him "always" from saying what he wants to say, telling him that he will confuse the other kids. An example of this will be when the teacher told them that there are 3 states of matter, and he then, respectfully, disagreed. Also when he wanted to solve a math problem like 13 + 13 = 26 is the same as 13 x 2 = 26

YES.

You accelerate only for what you can't get another way-- and then you work to fill the remaining gaps.

Now I know I really am a freak. I figured if we skipped recess, lunch and PE we could go home about 3 hours earlier and do something that was actually interesting.

We grade skipped our DS knowing that one skip wouldn't be enough, and it was much better than no skip. It's much easier for a teacher differentiate if the student is only two years ahead rather than three, e.g. Our DS skipped first and was lucky enough to be in a class where there was one non-grade skipped kid at his level in one subject (so he wasn't in a group of one). There is a much greater chance if finding like minds among the brightest kids the next level up. We were lucky to find a school for HG kids that was accelerated, so we transferred out of 2nd, but that skip was necessary to make things more tolerable.

Does the school have any sort of GT program? If yes, if I were you I would request a meeting with the GT coordinator, asking what the school offers. If there is no program (and many times even if there is a program), you are dependent on particular teachers to differentiate for your kid. Clearly your son's current teacher doesn't get GT. I can't imagine that I would pay attention in class if I had to listen to something basic I had mastered years earlier, although there is great benefit to teach our kids that there are some things you need to do even if you don't want to. But it's not right for a teacher to tell a young child that they need to pay attention if they are not getting any benefit from the bargain. Every student deserves to learn new things at school.

You may have troubles getting much if the private school is not flexible. There are private schools around my area that claim that their curriculum is challenging for all the students. But if you are lucky, you may have just come across a bad fit teacher. The principal is the person who can help you find a good fit teacher, one who differentiates and wants a kid like yours. You can also request that your son be placed in a class that has other kids that score similarly.

What we have learned is that a good school situation may not last for long. We were lucky to find a good fit in an HG school, but that program ends next year, so we're looking at middle schools. In discussing options, I've said that although a particular private school sounds great, I would only send our kid there if there was a full scholarship, as there is no way to predict if it will be right for my kid, or for how long. We lean more toward looking for a school that is flexible an hopefully has had some experience with HG kids. Sorry for the long post. Good luck in your decision!

This school offers nothing extra for GT kids. They claim to be challenging as it is. No pull-out program or differentiated classes.

We know what that is like, mcsquared. Our district makes the same claim, with the explanation that 30% of the students in-district qualify as "Talented and Gifted" so of course it isn't possible that a student might have needs that aren't met.

This means that acceleration is your sole means of differentiation without individual teachers doing it off the record.

~A person who sat in high school guidance counselor conference with my then-12-yo and was told "we really don't have anything to offer her... why don't you try the community college since that's where we'd end up sending her at least most of the time anyway?"

This would be a red flag for me. What sorts of other schools do you have in the area? Does your state allow open enrollment (where you can cross district lines for school)? What do the local public schools have for GT programs? Most importantly, I would try to seek out a school that will be flexible, permitting subject acceleration if needed and differentiating and/or clustering. Yes, a skip would help, but if there is no differentiation with that skip, it may not be enough.

Have you ever considered homeschooling? Or partial homeschooling if allowed in your district? That can be a great option. Some areas have really strong GT homes homeschooling groups too.

Agree with OP. This school might not be a good fit at all. Any other options? I would just go ahead and bite the bullet and push them on this.You can't go on the way it is. Ask for a grade skip AND accelerated curriculum. If they won't do both I would push the subject acceleration instead of grade skip. Or better yet, find a school that is willing to work with you.

Do you think it MIGHT just be a poor teacher? Or is it the whole administration that is reluctant to do anything?

A skip isn't just about access to new material it is also about getting into a class with kids who are themselves further along in their development. Real abstract example:
If your kid is on average speaking in 10 word sentences and kis their age are typically speaking in 5 word sentences and kids a year older are speaking in 7 word sentences, then the year up is at least more compatible on language use.

Things like abstract reasoning, language sophistication, etc. advance as kids get older.

I'd be great if a grade skip was a panacea, but it's not. Acceleration addresses the placement issue, but the pacing will still be wrong no matter what placement is made. These kids learn at a rapid pace, not the glacial one preferred by most educators. So if you skip your kid ahead, it might be the right level... for now. You'll be right back where you started again shortly.

However, placing at the right level for a short time is still better than placing significantly lower. If that's all you can get, skipping is still least-worst.

Best-case is a situation that runs at your child's own pace.

My own DD8 was in a public school for 1st and the beginning of 2nd grade. She was offered a GT pull-out for 2 hours a day to work on math and language arts one year ahead. And it was a mess. We proposed skipping her ahead one year, forget about GT for now, then let her re-enter GT again once she started leaving the other kids behind again. No dice... the school had an institutional bias against acceleration. Plus, we have reason to suspect that they needed another warm body in the GT class, which has become something of a political football in the state.

So, homeschooling. DD was enrolled in homeschooling as a 3rd grader, so we effected the skip ourselves. DW had to identify and address all the gaps created by the sloppy mess of regular class/GT for the last 1+ year, then let DD progress at her own pace. And we recently found out that DD has already run ahead of the current 4th grade class in math.

Too bad for the school, as DD not only proved our approach to the problem was the right one, but now they don't have her as a warm body in that GT class, either.

Agreed-- the only reason why "public school" works at all for DD13 is that she has the option to do her various classes at HER pace-- now, to stay in synch with the class itself, she tends to do a week of Honors German on Mondays, and to do AP Physics only two or three times a week (not the smaller amounts of material every day).

Virtual schooling isn't perfect by any means, but it can allow for a flexibility in pacing that is still necessary even after multiple accelerations.

HG+ kids definitely follow a different CURVE entirely when it comes to their academic development and the pacing that results.

It's like trying to fit a polynomial expression with a linear model-- you might be able to follow it sort of acceptably well for a while... but then you'll need a new linear model when the polynomial starts to deviate from the linear model. KWIM?

I agree with Zen, my DS could use another skip or two but he's not going to get it where we are. The GT program is still valuable even though he could work faster and in more depth because of the other kids. The separation between him and the other kids is smaller than with ND kids making it easier for him to interact. It's not perfect but it's better than not having it.

DeHe

I felt like this at school too...

DS skipped K even though that was never going to be enough. Gr 1 is a better fit then K would have been. Now if only we can convince them he needs harder readers/books (sigh).

We chose to homeschool when we realised that the 1 grade skip offered would not be enough for long enough.

Our son would have been in a rage if he had gone through the process of learning to sit for longer, write more and for longer and do extra work (that he already mastered) and then figured out that it was nothing really new in terms of learning. I don't think I could have coped with the fallout.

In your situation if you cannot homeschool then approach the school and ask for appropriate placement testing, or start searching for a more understanding school.