Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Happy HG child in "regular" school-is it possible?

Our newly identified HG third grader attends a language immersion elementary school. Our daughter is socially well-adjusted and likes all of the non-academic parts of school. We also have cultural reasons to keep her there, but academically, the differentiation they have been able to provide so far IS NOT WORKING. Our daughter is miserable. The school is taking several steps to address our concerns, including involvement of the district gifted resource specialist shadowing our daughter for the day,and a meeting with her and the entire third grade team and us parents to make a plan.

My question is, can this work? Do you have an HG kid whose needs are being successfully met in a non-gifted, regular elementary program? We are exploring a stand-alone GT program in a neighboring district too, so we're going to have to make a choice.

My HG+ DD had her needs met in a public elementary school. Her birthday was just past the cutoff, but following ability and achievement testing and an interview and classroom visit, she was allowed early entrance to K. During her K year she and another boy were pulled during class reading time by the school's reading specialist for individual instruction. In 1st grade, the academic misfit became more obvious, but the teacher couldn't think of anything to do about it until, at the end of the year, we came up with the idea of subject acceleration after finding this board. So, the next year was split between all the academic subjects (and a special) in the morning in a 3rd grade classroom and the non-math and non-reading/writing stuff in the afternoon in a 2nd grade classroom. The next year she just skipped to 4th. In 5th grade she was outpacing the class in math again, so she and another student were allowed to pretest and then extend math lessons. By the end of the year, though, she was ready for still higher math and we ended up switching her (at her request) to a private school that had a more homogeneous population of high achievers.

What worked so great in the public elementary school besides her grade and subject adjustments was that each grade level differentiates spelling, reading, and math on a daily basis. Each grade has four different leveled groups in each subject (so, 4 math, 4 spelling, 4 reading) with classes from below grade level to above grade level. Students are assigned to each group based on a combination of assessments and students are moved in and out of groups as needed throughout the year so that their needs are met as best as possible. Kids move throughout the grade level pod during the day to these leveled groups, in addition to the instruction happening throughout the rest of the day a student's main classroom.

So, long story not so short, a HG+ student can have their needs met in a public school given the right circumstances. What you really need to look for in any school is flexibility and the willingness to make adjustments to arrive at something that is appropriate for each individual student. If you can find school administrators and teachers that are both willing to work with you, then you've hit the jackpot!

BTW: The pullout gifted program was fun for her, but definitely didn't meet her academic needs, so I would a gifted program of this type with a grain of salt when evaluating a school's appropriateness.

My son is in 2nd grade at a dual language immersion program. His LA, Reading, and Science are taught in English with one teacher and then he switches to another teacher and gets LA, Reading, and Social studies in Spanish...math is taught by his homeroom teacher and is taught in both languages (they learn all the vocabulary of math in both and she explains everything twice). Half of his classmates are ELL (English language learners) and half are SLL (Spanish language learners with English as their first language)...there are a random few who have a different first language and English is the second and Spanish the third.

He too is at least HG if not PG (I don't believe their testing that shows PG but maybe they are right). The Spanish side of schooling is just right of a challenge. The English portion of his schooling they have had to differentiate math...they just grabbed a third grade math book and speak to him for a few minutes and he is working his way through it and works on the computer on various programs. Reading he gets different books to read than the other kids. For Language arts (writing) I believe he participates with their lessons.

They also have an intervention class each day and at the beginning of the year he was in a handwriting intervention group (made up of those who had no need of reading or math intervention but needed handwriting) and now his intervention group is once again kids who don't need reading or math intervention and they are participating in a drama group (not that the intervention at the beginning of the year cleared up his handwriting at all but they tried).

He is very happy for now. I am taking it one year at a time.

*swoon*

No further comment, really, just--why can't more schools do this???

My 13yo dd is HG and attends the neighborhood middle school. She is in 7th grade and has never had a full grade acceleration. It is not perfect and some years have been better than others, but overall it has been good enough that we have not pursued other options.

She is subject accelerated for math - currently in Honors Geometry. This school goes through 8th and also offers Honors Alg. 2/Trig. - we feel lucky as it is the only middle school in the district that offers that.

For one period each day, she goes to the library to work on an online course offered to HG kids across the district, in place of Language Arts. This is new for us, and we love that she gets time to work on this course *in school*. They also have 3 in person meeting per quarter.

We are underwhelmed with the science classroom offering, which is a disappointment as science is a strength/interest of hers, but she participates in an extracurricular activity sponsored by the district in which she and a friend are conducting their own science project, with a weekly meeting with a graduate student mentor who has expertise in their chosen subject area.

We have also had good experiences with supplementation in the past with online courses through the NUMATS Center for Talent Development, and she may take an art course at the local community college this spring.

She *loves* the social aspects of school, and attends various after-school clubs almost every day. In addition, she does music lessons and sings in the local youth choir.

Her days are pretty full, and although she *could* be learning more, there is enough learning happening for now.

We've managed to make public school work for two HG kids as well but it required more than just participation in the school GT programs even when they've attended schools with pretty robust programs for our area. The things that have made it work include:

For dd14 her bd made our K cut by two weeks so she was already the youngest in grade. That alone was not enough with just GT/honors classes. She also skipped the last yr of elementary b/c elementary was the place where we had the hardest time finding a fit for her. Subject acceleration in the entire language arts block to an accelerated 4th LA class in 3rd was the one yr where LA was a pretty good fit. She also doubled up on science, her passion area, last yr in 9th grade and is taking pre-AP and AP classes and will take some concurrent enrollment classes where she gets both high school and college credit starting next year in 11th grade.

For dd12, her bd missed our K cut by two weeks & we got her around it by starting her in a district with a later cut. The last year of elementary was her best academic fit but, by then, we were dealing with some significant underperformance issues due to yrs of improper placement & b/c she is 2e. That last yr of elementary she spent 2 hrs/day+ in the Gt classroom for LA and math. Math used the next grade up curriculum so essentially subject acceleration. After a trying year getting her back on track, though, middle school has gone pretty well. She's doing very well in Algebra I and honors classes for other subjects. She's currently a 7th grader and will turn 13 about a month or so after she starts 8th grade.

Hmm. My two are in a language immersion program in a public school, not accelerated. I think it's ok... I'm not sure sometimes.

DD10 (gr. 5 - late birthday, second youngest in her class) is in the gifted math pull out. Now she has her eye on the gifted art pull out (they have math, art, science and language programs for GT). At one point she announced that she wants to be an author, but has expressed no interest in the language program. Her French spelling and grammar marks range from 95%-100% and her English is generally perfect, so she could probably benefit from more challenge there. Ironically, her writing is quite poor - very minimalist with little effort behind it. The writing portion is what has brought her language grades down to Bs. Her teacher says she does the bare minimum that is required, and we're both sort of at a loss as how to motivate her because she has quite crippling perfectionism that shuts her down. Bottom line, she's cruising and avoiding her issues. Socially she seems ok - she's known this group of kids for 6 years now, and it's a clever, quirky bunch. There are several who are high achievers who overshadow DD and allow her to stay in her "chameleon comfort zone."

Is it the best education for her? Not sure. Is she learning? I think so. She seems to enjoy going to school. I think.

(lol it sounds like I don't even know my own kid... she's sort of multi-layered and complex and can be very difficult to read. sigh.)

DS8 (gr. 3) has a language disorder and written output issues so he's getting his BUTT KICKED in language immersion. It's quite awesome. He is getting lots of support (LA for French, time with an EA, time with a SLP). Language immersion is very, very difficult for him, yet he seems happier than DD10. His teacher is amazing and flexible, and has suggested that I let him work out of his sister's grade 5 math text, and is very supportive when I occasionally pull him from school to work one on one with him (she doesn't have the time or resources to adequately differentiate his curriculum). He has an IEP for his LPD and ADHD and it seems to be working out ok. Most teachers do not advocate working ahead in Math because it's so sequential, but this teacher is very open to me providing DS8 with enrichment, so there are never teacher Vs. parent conflicts (this school is filled to the brim with exceptional teachers, actually... we're very lucky).

He's also given extra language homework from his SLP, which we work on, at our own pace. He fills in a homework log to earn prizes. He's been added to the school's Raz Kids database, which is an on-line reading comprehension program through which he can progress at his own pace.

Bottom line, he's getting TONS of support for his language weakness, and the school is very supportive of me accelerating his math.

Is it working? Sure. He's happy, has friends, goes to school each day without a fight. It it perfect? No. He needs in-class math acceleration (we don't have enough time after school - we only do a little bit), and enrichment in other subject areas such as science. The superficial coverage that typical grade level curriculum gives science is not enough to satisfy his curiosity and interest - at home he's full of additional questions, seeking more detail and depth. We Google a lot.

(Disclaimer: The OP was talking about HG kids... I'm not sure if my kids are HG. I am, but that doesn't mean that they are. DD10 likely is, but DS8 might be in the MG range).

Our two made it through public elementary without acceleration, though we do have a (quite limited) pull-out program. Overall, it was least-worst for us. My DD had 2 years which were not good, but they were interspersed with very good years, mainly teacher-dependent. Personality played a role for us; my DD Is a kid who devises self-challenges wherever she goes, and that is primarily how she got through. (She is the kind of kid who would take the lame spelling list and try to devise a coherent, concise short story using all the words, sometimes in order, etc.). We did afterschooling intermittently as well. It also helps that we are in a high-performing district, and our kids have each had some outstanding teachers (plus one or two we could have done without). My DD never found true peers in elementary, but our DS had a couple kids who were near enough to him in abilities and interests that it was OK. Both participated in things like science clubs, lots of music through school, great art programs, etc, which helped fill their tanks.

Now that they are both in middle school, things have really taken off. There are more peers (multiple elementaries feed into the middle school) and more opportunities, electives, and afterschool clubs. DD got accepted onto an academic afterschool club "team" which is very rigorous, multi-grade, competes at the national level, and has regular practice/interaction with the corresponding high school team- a godsend in many ways, and a great fit for her. (Almost makes up for the fact that there are still no differentiated classes or acceleration allowed at her grade level...). They are still "out there," but there are more kids who get their humor, like the same books/movies, embrace their quirkiness, etc.

I also wanted to mention after reading the last post that school isn't perfect, but it also isn't terrible. I don't know that perfect is out there to be had. I'm not even sure if perfectly average kids find school to be a perfect fit for their needs and desires.

Personality also made a difference in the choices we made for our kids. Our oldest is unusually driven and focused and was clearly miserable early in elementary to the point that I homeschooled her briefly b/c I was worried about her mental health. Our youngest probably would have been reasonably happy with neither her HG-ness (new word here - lol) nor her 2e aspects recognized. She's more content to just coast along. I do think that the amount of GT participation that she's done has been better for her than nothing though.

Scheduling...our elementary schools are huge 700-1000 kids depending on the school. All of these kids need a period in Special Areas (art, music, PE) and all these kids need a lunch (and in my child's school 97% are free and reduced and have to get through the lunch line). In order to do that there really is no way to have everyone having reading at the same time and math at the same time because there needs to be grades in specials and lunch starts at 10am. Oh and school starts at 8:15 and at 8:45 the front office is full of kids getting late passes...if they really wanted the kids there at 8:15 they would need to lie and tell them that school started at 7:45. The kids/parents here think that 8:15 is just a suggested time to show up.