Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments How much acceleration?

We're in a kind of unusual spot. Our local school districts have suddenly gotten very liberal with their willingness to subject accelerate in math. My dd12 is doing very well with a combo of having started school a bit early (we got her around a K cut that she missed by two weeks so she's young for grade) and subject accelerating in math (she's taking Algebra I this year in 7th grade). There are a number of other 7th graders taking Algebra I at her school as it is a very high performing school.

The assumption was that she'd take Geometry in 8th and then go into Algebra II in 9th, which will start about a month or so before her 14th bd. I'm sure that she'd do absolutely fine with that much acceleration. However, her school is now offering kids who are doing well in Algebra I in 7th the possibility to take both Geometry and Algebra II next year in 8th which would put that group into pre-calc in 9th.

I don't know how we ascertain whether that would be advisable for our particular kiddo. One of our other local middle schools started offering acceleration that they had not in the past a few years ago where they offered many incoming 6th graders who had low-advanced or above state achievement scores on math tests the option of taking 6th & 7th grade math concurrently in 6th and then going into Algebra I in 7th. Some of these kids hit a point where the acceleration was too much and are repeating Algebra I in 8th or needing to repeat a year of math later.

There really doesn't seem to be any assessment of who would be a good fit long-term for acceleration of this sort beyond current high achievement. For that reason, I'm not sure that I trust that it is a good idea to accelerate that much just b/c dd is doing well currently with the acceleration. I don't want her to hit a point (especially in high school) where she was accelerated more than she needed to be.

How do you figure this out?

Well, I certainly understand where you're at there.

Playing Devil's advocate for a moment, though, there isn't any law that says that you MUST take calculus immediately after the completion of precalc, right?

Nor, to the best of my knowledge, is there any sort of law (natural or otherwise) that indicates that precalc is mandatory following the successful completion of Algebra II.

Basically, as long as a student completes math through the Algebra II level, they're good to graduate from high school... and certainly good for the ACT and SAT.

Ergo, you then have the freedom to afterschool or enrich with other kinds of math; discrete mathematics, linear algebra, statistics, etc.


I'm actually someone who feels rather strongly that challenge in mathematics in particular is essential to the development of a tolerance for genuine challenge, and maybe even more particularly in kids that aren't especially mathy and most especially in young women in that category.

We stopped my DD's math at the completion of Algebra II. We didn't feel that the instructional model supports learning math at higher levels (basically, YouTube and Khan academy are the "instruction" here, and it's an all-assessment, no homework model).

So she's tutoring other math students (pre-algebra through geometry) and taking physics to keep her skills sharp.

The one thing I'd have genuine reservations about in this situation is placing a child into a situation which REQUIRES math through calculus simply to graduate from high school. That is, make sure that the math up through Algebra II actually counts toward graduation if you have any reservations about whether or not you will all want your child taking calc through that local high school. Our rule of thumb there has always been-- if it's a high school class, it earns high school CREDITS, too. No regrets on that policy, by the way, and DD started earning high school credit as a 7th grader in Algebra I.

I've worried about the same thing with a 7th grader in Geometry this year.

My plan is a year of "AP Statistics" to buy a year "off" from the calculus track if time off is needed in high school.

Dd is getting high school credit for Algebra I this year and will for next year's math class(es) as well. They will all show on her hs transcript grades & all unless we opt for them not to.

Thanks for the alternate views. I guess that we'll have to see what dd prefers, but I guess that it is good to have options.

I guess my other question would be about the concurrent enrollment in AlgII/Geometry. Is this a double block? Or simply accelerated pacing and compacting?

I'm not sure that kind of pace would have been okay for my DD. Maybe in algebra II, but Geometry, she actually seemed to need the time for the info to percolate or something. Whatever that process was, anyway. She didn't DO anything, mind you, but clearly some stealth learning process was occurring, because she did well later on when "learning" the material at a pace that was clearly superhuman. ANYway.

For seriously mathy kids, a 2X pace might be good, but I'm thinking that for most MG kids, it would NOT-- at least not when coupled with the other acceleration involved.

Unless... they are offering it as a double block, such that the geometry is the "math" class, and tacked onto that is the "elective" course, Algebra II. That way both classes run at the normal rate, and there is plenty of instructional time.

Or... with that double block, make pacing 2x so that geometry is first semester, and algebra II the second.

Having gone to a parent info night on registration this evening, I now have a bit more info and am not sure that dd will want to do this concurrent math course option. Essentially, her middle school runs such that all core courses meet every other day. If you take Geometry & Algebra II, you'd wind up with two blocks of math, so you'd have math every day: Algebra on one day and Geometry on the other.

That is good, but b/c it eats up another block, you have to either drop your music class (dd is taking orchestra) or your one elective course. I don't want dd to stop playing an instrument or only play once every other week when she has a lesson and she probably won't want to drop the only elective course she has each semester. We'll see, but for now I think that she's going to register with the assumption that she is just going to take Geometry next year and Algebra II in 9th.

If the teachers feel strongly that she should be taking both, they'll approach us in March or April and we can discuss further then.

That would be my choice, too. Dropping orchestra or another enjoyable elective to double up on math for no better reason than to get to calc quicker seems odd. If there were no enjoyable electives, maybe.

Yup. For a not-particularly mathy kid, this sounds like a recipe for resentment... sacrificing an enjoyable/novel activity (personal exploration/choice)... so that you can take more math instead...

Hmmmm... just no.

I wouldn't say that she's not "mathy" per se in that she has very good conceptual understanding of math and is coasting through Algebra I. However, what she's not is interested in math. She wants to be a Hollywood make-up artist. She's my very out of the box creative kid. I do think that she'll do fine with skipping the double acceleration, though, since it isn't a passion for her.

I'm an incredibly mathy person, and to be honest, I would go nuts with that schedule. Algebra II and Geometry are two different subjects altogether, but they are both math. I think ping-ponging back and forth with a class one in one subject, then the other subject the next etc would be just simply annoying. I think that for kids who are very good at math and catch on to the concepts quickly, compacting Algebra II into one semester and Geometry into the next semester would be an a-ok way to accomplish this.

My other hesitation would be simply - why uber-accelerate in math unless you are seeking higher levels earlier in other subjects? I think math is always one of the first areas schools grab when looking for ways to accelerate because it's extremely quantifiable and easy to see that students go from point A to point B to point C so there's not much to think through in terms of acceleration. OTOH, those same bright kids who are being uber-accelerated in math might really be better served if they are offered the same level of acceleration in other areas of academics if they aren't kids showing an interest in math/science as a career. Several of the kids I know in high school here have taken AP Calc early... and it's always bewildered me *why* because they are kids who have no earthly desire to ever step foot in a math or science class again.

OTOH, my ds is all about science - that's his area of passion. He's taking a high school science class this semester (outside of his regular school) for fun. He's wanting to take AP and/or college science when he enters his first year of high school in 9th grade - and he's got the brains for it. Right now he's in Algebra 1 in 7th grade, and there is one kid in his school who is taking Algebra 2 in 8th grade... so ds saw that and, on his own, asked us if he could take Geometry this summer so that he could take Algebra 2 next year in 8th. I don't have a problem with that type of acceleration - he's capable, he asked for it, and... being ahead in math *will* help because it feeds into the accelerated science classes he wants to take. But if he was a kid who was more interested in art/history/etc and his school told us they wanted to accelerate him another year in math simply because he was capable, I wouldn't jump into it. Especially if it meant giving up an elective!

polarbear