Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 2E Highly Verbal, Slow Processing Speed, ADD

I've read the many discussions regarding 2E with ADD which answered some of my questions, however, I'm still at a loss for how to help my son. He is failing school and I don't know where to turn. Private schooling is too costly for our family.

He is in 7th grade. 143 Verbal WISC-IV. 243 on most recent state standarized tests for Reading. 99th percentile on Verbal Reasoning. Now here's the other side. He has ADD (without the HD component)and is in the 5th percentile for Processing Speed.

He can't show what he knows on worksheets and assignments fast enough for his teachers. He consistently earns Ds, a few Fs, and one C each semester. The C comes if he focuses an usually high amount of time on "one" class, he says. This works for any subject. I can tell by his scores in a given month which class he is "focusing to get the C on".

He can comprehend and excel in any given topic...meaning, he's knowledgable about so many things. His passion is in learning, simply learning anything. He just can't show it unless he "says" it. His processing speed doesn't keep his vocal abilities back. So dialogue is his love. He seeks out knowledge. For example, each month he asks me if the new National Geographic has arrived. He read Eragon and The Eldest in under a school week. He has so much potential but is really held back by his disability. He recently told me that he's going to be held back in Math next year and that means he won't be taking what he needs to get into the universities of his choice, because the math he will take each successive year until the 12th grade will be too remedial. He knows the math, but he fails the class. He gets discouraged.

His teachers, as a whole, think he's just lazy.

Those who tested him in the 2nd grade and in the 7th grade don't have experience in 2E. I wonder if perhaps his scores are as accurate as they could be. In any case, since he's not surviving public school I'm trying to find other options. Does anyone know how to educate a student with this unique mix? I'm hoping it's not as unique as I think and that someone in the on-line community could offer some advice.
By way of note, he's in the gifted program which is just another class 1/4 of the year which gives him more homework meant to "challenge" my son. And it's nonexistant from the 8th grade on in our district anyway. He's also in spec. ed. (you should have seen the looks on the faces of those in his IEP meeting when I advocated for BOTH!!! They really thought I was crazy!) In any case, the thing he has gained by being in special education is Empathy--not quite what I expected, but I can't complain. Those in Special Ed. now give him hugs when they see him in the halls.

How is his writing? Is actually writing stuff the bottleneck? I'm asking because you mentioned that expresses himself easily verbally but has trouble getting his work down on worksheets, etc.

I love "The Mislabeled Child" by the Eides. There's a lot of good info in there that may help you. http://mislabeledchild.com/

Although I can't remember the name of the test which identifies writing disabilities, he performed well, but slow. The test didn't time him. So well, in fact that the administrator was impressed. His skill was in saying a lot using few words. However, it took him a long while to think of what to write. Like other performance-based tests and curriculum he was about 4 times slower than anyone else on the same test.

If the act of writing is physically difficult some kids cope by using as few words as possible. He may be spending a lot of time distilling his ideas into the most compact form.

Can he type? Some kids find typing faster since to form a letter all you need to do is press a key.

Does he have dysgraphia, hypotonia, visual processing issues? I really think there is more going on here than ADD. Is he medicated? Is he depressed? How long has he been failing? Has he always struggled in school?

I don't feel comfortable offering specific suggestions without more details.

I think you would be wise to look into further testing with a gifted specialist who can sort out the 2e issues. Ed Amend in Kentucky, Dierdre Lovecky in RI, The Eides out west- there are several respected specialists around the country who might help. At this point, your son is dangerously close to high school when grades matter. He obviously must be extremely frustrated with his situation, and the sooner you can pinpoint his problems, the sooner you can find ways to support and accommodate. I really feel for you and for him, and I urge you to do whatever it takes to get to the heart of his issues.

best wishes-

Thanks so much for your responses and questions. I noticed in your responses that you didn't say you knew another who had the same combination -- as though either it's really unique or incorrect. Is that a correct summation on my part?

To answer the questions posed about his physical writing abilities: When I asked him whether the act of writing is difficult he said, "No, the thinking of what I need to write does. It just takes time to think." The answers don't come swiftly. Once they do, they're correct. He admits to being highly distracted by everything around him, and even other thoughts. Is that what a typical person with ADD has to deal with?

He's sensory sensitive. Sound, taste, touch, sight. While at noisy sporting events when he was young, he would become anxious to tears. He has learned to cope now, most of the time. At age 8 he asked me why I had put cinnamon in a 10 qt. pot of chili (new recipe I was trying out which called for 12 different spices). The recipe only called for 1/8th teaspoon. Shirt tags bother him, but only a little--touch is his least sensative. As for visual, on the Berry Non-Motor skills test of 38 questions, he got all 38 correct. The test administrator said she'd never had a person get all of the answers right in her 12 years of administering that test. That meant he observed everything and could keep it in his memory and recall it. Could this have anything to do with his speed?

His fine motor skills have been average throughout his life. However, Legos, blocks, models to put together, and the like were highly frustrating for him. Most who worked with him and knew he was bright expected him to appreciate these things. They were common gifts. It was just the opposite. He never got into coloring books and crayons either. He would enjoyment in taking things apart instead, VCRs, hard drives, anything.

In contrast, his gross motor abilities have been exceptional, learning to ride a bike at age 3 1/2, for example--and that was when he had his first opportunity and he rode well on his first try. Most gross skills he masters upon the first attempt.

As for medication. You have to know my husband and his father is a licensed mental health clinician. So my son tried Ridalin (it may have been another form of the same drug), and then Concerta. Our son reacted horribly to it's effects. Cried a lot, became violent and aggressive. Mood swings. We haven't tried anything else. He's not depressed. And he's rather resilient. And yes, he's always struggled in school. Problems arose in the 1st grade when his teacher kept him after school for 2.5 hours beside her desk to complete a project she was sure he could finish and was choosing not to. She was his worst. It was his compassionate 2nd grade teacher that first recommended he be tested. We could set our Fall and Spring calendars to expected calls from his teacher, no matter the grade. For 4 years I thought he was Oppositional Defiant because his delay in processing doesn't start and end in the classroom, it's universal.

This is the most important question I'm hoping to get answered at this point, because Lorel is right, time is of the essence now. He's been tested quite a bit, albeit not by 2E specialists. But my question is this: So what would it mean? Tangibly? what will finding the right diagnoses or label do for him? Nothing as far as I can tell. Even if we obtain further test results from qualified 2E specialists, it won't change his education options. How do I educate him?

Is there a type of schooling or curriculum that includes the following:

Lectures, slide shows, reading for input.
Student-led discussions and presentations on the material, and tests of measurement for output?

Does such a thing exist? And if so, would that inhibit his learning holistically? What are your opinions on such a model?

Now that I write it, it looks like college. That's funny.

Idahomom,
I have met plenty of kids who sound a lot like your child. I'd say it's a classic 2E situation. It's true that many/most schools and educators don't know how best to help these kids-- and that's the reason many parents (like many on this board) become the experts on how to help their children. More testing may or may not help, but a more piecemeal approach to his education may help. More emailing with teachers, more working with the school, more systems in place so he doesn't fall through the cracks. Since you said he can get a C when he's focused on one class, I certainly hope he isn't taking too many classes or doing too much extra curriculars!
Because I teach teens and up, I think most of these kids manage to fly under the radar until seventh grade or so, when suddenly the student is responsible for so much more. These kids need a lot of help keeping themselves focused and organized. Also, hopefully, there is a shred of willingness in there. Does your son want to go to college?
Also, just a sidebar, my experience has been that private schools can be no better in helping the 2E kids.

Here's a thought to consider - could he possibly be a bit of a visual-spatial learner, maybe with fine motor problems? The tip-offs are enjoying taking things apart and putting them back together, but being frustrated by legos, etc., and your post just above about the ideal school situation as having visual inputs and oral outputs (though lectures would be an auditory input).

In any event, it sounds like written output is the crux of the problem - do I have that right? And thinking out loud here, is it accurate to say that verbal output in an oral format is not a problem, whereas verbal output in a written format is? In other words, does he have the same "processing speed" issue with oral output as with written?

With a writing output problem, I'd definitely want to consider fine motor issues as well as a possible vision processing issue (though the fact that he's an excellent reader might point away from that). Has he been evaluated for either? Both of those problems may be forms of sensory processing issues (which is a vast world much larger than just tactile issues). OT can help fine motor, and keyboarding also seems to be the way to go, as far as school goes. For example of what can be done educationally, maybe a 504 plan that allows him to do his work on a computer. As for vision processing, there's vision therapy, which is often quite successful in fixing such a problem (my dd just finished this).

As for processing speed, supposedly it can be improved, though I think it's at least a little controversial as to whether the improvement is permanent. There are all kinds of therapies out there (I'm thinking along the lines of Interactive Metronome, etc.) though I really don't know any more about it, and I don't know if I'd be sure that was the problem.

Here are a few websites:
http://www.visualspatial.org/ (about visual-spatial learners - what one is, etc. plus helpful articles at the articles tab)
www.covd.org (about vision processing issues and how to find the right type of optometrist to do such an evaulation; not just any eye doc does this, and usually not opthamologists)
http://www.spdnetwork.org/aboutspd/defining.html (about sensory processing)

The other question I would have is what you mean exactly by learning holistically - do you mean learning whole before parts/details, as opposed to step by step (a visual spatial learner issue), or do you mean something else more general?

With written output taking so long, I think it would be very important to get to the bottom of whether it's truly some sort of general mental processing speed issue or whether it's a fine motor or vision issue, since those might well be treatable.

Just my two cents - I'll try to think more about it...

I also second the recommendation for the book The Mislabeled Child by the Eides. The book distinguishes between many different types of issues that are sometimes confused with one another. ADD is one of the topics.

Also, there's a recent thread on one of these boards on ADHD and giftedness, which I haven't read through yet.

And an interesting link I came across once upon a time http://borntoexplore.org/gifted.htm about how difficult it may be to distinguish between giftedness and add/adhd - more food for thought.