I've read the many discussions regarding 2E with ADD which answered some of my questions, however, I'm still at a loss for how to help my son. He is failing school and I don't know where to turn. Private schooling is too costly for our family.

He is in 7th grade. 143 Verbal WISC-IV. 243 on most recent state standarized tests for Reading. 99th percentile on Verbal Reasoning. Now here's the other side. He has ADD (without the HD component)and is in the 5th percentile for Processing Speed.

He can't show what he knows on worksheets and assignments fast enough for his teachers. He consistently earns Ds, a few Fs, and one C each semester. The C comes if he focuses an usually high amount of time on "one" class, he says. This works for any subject. I can tell by his scores in a given month which class he is "focusing to get the C on".

He can comprehend and excel in any given topic...meaning, he's knowledgable about so many things. His passion is in learning, simply learning anything. He just can't show it unless he "says" it. His processing speed doesn't keep his vocal abilities back. So dialogue is his love. He seeks out knowledge. For example, each month he asks me if the new National Geographic has arrived. He read Eragon and The Eldest in under a school week. He has so much potential but is really held back by his disability. He recently told me that he's going to be held back in Math next year and that means he won't be taking what he needs to get into the universities of his choice, because the math he will take each successive year until the 12th grade will be too remedial. He knows the math, but he fails the class. He gets discouraged.

His teachers, as a whole, think he's just lazy.

Those who tested him in the 2nd grade and in the 7th grade don't have experience in 2E. I wonder if perhaps his scores are as accurate as they could be. In any case, since he's not surviving public school I'm trying to find other options. Does anyone know how to educate a student with this unique mix? I'm hoping it's not as unique as I think and that someone in the on-line community could offer some advice.
By way of note, he's in the gifted program which is just another class 1/4 of the year which gives him more homework meant to "challenge" my son. And it's nonexistant from the 8th grade on in our district anyway. He's also in spec. ed. (you should have seen the looks on the faces of those in his IEP meeting when I advocated for BOTH!!! They really thought I was crazy!) In any case, the thing he has gained by being in special education is Empathy--not quite what I expected, but I can't complain. Those in Special Ed. now give him hugs when they see him in the halls.

How is his writing? Is actually writing stuff the bottleneck? I'm asking because you mentioned that expresses himself easily verbally but has trouble getting his work down on worksheets, etc.

I love "The Mislabeled Child" by the Eides. There's a lot of good info in there that may help you. http://mislabeledchild.com/

Although I can't remember the name of the test which identifies writing disabilities, he performed well, but slow. The test didn't time him. So well, in fact that the administrator was impressed. His skill was in saying a lot using few words. However, it took him a long while to think of what to write. Like other performance-based tests and curriculum he was about 4 times slower than anyone else on the same test.

If the act of writing is physically difficult some kids cope by using as few words as possible. He may be spending a lot of time distilling his ideas into the most compact form.

Can he type? Some kids find typing faster since to form a letter all you need to do is press a key.

Does he have dysgraphia, hypotonia, visual processing issues? I really think there is more going on here than ADD. Is he medicated? Is he depressed? How long has he been failing? Has he always struggled in school?

I don't feel comfortable offering specific suggestions without more details.

I think you would be wise to look into further testing with a gifted specialist who can sort out the 2e issues. Ed Amend in Kentucky, Dierdre Lovecky in RI, The Eides out west- there are several respected specialists around the country who might help. At this point, your son is dangerously close to high school when grades matter. He obviously must be extremely frustrated with his situation, and the sooner you can pinpoint his problems, the sooner you can find ways to support and accommodate. I really feel for you and for him, and I urge you to do whatever it takes to get to the heart of his issues.

best wishes-

Thanks so much for your responses and questions. I noticed in your responses that you didn't say you knew another who had the same combination -- as though either it's really unique or incorrect. Is that a correct summation on my part?

To answer the questions posed about his physical writing abilities: When I asked him whether the act of writing is difficult he said, "No, the thinking of what I need to write does. It just takes time to think." The answers don't come swiftly. Once they do, they're correct. He admits to being highly distracted by everything around him, and even other thoughts. Is that what a typical person with ADD has to deal with?

He's sensory sensitive. Sound, taste, touch, sight. While at noisy sporting events when he was young, he would become anxious to tears. He has learned to cope now, most of the time. At age 8 he asked me why I had put cinnamon in a 10 qt. pot of chili (new recipe I was trying out which called for 12 different spices). The recipe only called for 1/8th teaspoon. Shirt tags bother him, but only a little--touch is his least sensative. As for visual, on the Berry Non-Motor skills test of 38 questions, he got all 38 correct. The test administrator said she'd never had a person get all of the answers right in her 12 years of administering that test. That meant he observed everything and could keep it in his memory and recall it. Could this have anything to do with his speed?

His fine motor skills have been average throughout his life. However, Legos, blocks, models to put together, and the like were highly frustrating for him. Most who worked with him and knew he was bright expected him to appreciate these things. They were common gifts. It was just the opposite. He never got into coloring books and crayons either. He would enjoyment in taking things apart instead, VCRs, hard drives, anything.

In contrast, his gross motor abilities have been exceptional, learning to ride a bike at age 3 1/2, for example--and that was when he had his first opportunity and he rode well on his first try. Most gross skills he masters upon the first attempt.

As for medication. You have to know my husband and his father is a licensed mental health clinician. So my son tried Ridalin (it may have been another form of the same drug), and then Concerta. Our son reacted horribly to it's effects. Cried a lot, became violent and aggressive. Mood swings. We haven't tried anything else. He's not depressed. And he's rather resilient. And yes, he's always struggled in school. Problems arose in the 1st grade when his teacher kept him after school for 2.5 hours beside her desk to complete a project she was sure he could finish and was choosing not to. She was his worst. It was his compassionate 2nd grade teacher that first recommended he be tested. We could set our Fall and Spring calendars to expected calls from his teacher, no matter the grade. For 4 years I thought he was Oppositional Defiant because his delay in processing doesn't start and end in the classroom, it's universal.

This is the most important question I'm hoping to get answered at this point, because Lorel is right, time is of the essence now. He's been tested quite a bit, albeit not by 2E specialists. But my question is this: So what would it mean? Tangibly? what will finding the right diagnoses or label do for him? Nothing as far as I can tell. Even if we obtain further test results from qualified 2E specialists, it won't change his education options. How do I educate him?

Is there a type of schooling or curriculum that includes the following:

Lectures, slide shows, reading for input.
Student-led discussions and presentations on the material, and tests of measurement for output?

Does such a thing exist? And if so, would that inhibit his learning holistically? What are your opinions on such a model?

Now that I write it, it looks like college. That's funny.

Idahomom,
I have met plenty of kids who sound a lot like your child. I'd say it's a classic 2E situation. It's true that many/most schools and educators don't know how best to help these kids-- and that's the reason many parents (like many on this board) become the experts on how to help their children. More testing may or may not help, but a more piecemeal approach to his education may help. More emailing with teachers, more working with the school, more systems in place so he doesn't fall through the cracks. Since you said he can get a C when he's focused on one class, I certainly hope he isn't taking too many classes or doing too much extra curriculars!
Because I teach teens and up, I think most of these kids manage to fly under the radar until seventh grade or so, when suddenly the student is responsible for so much more. These kids need a lot of help keeping themselves focused and organized. Also, hopefully, there is a shred of willingness in there. Does your son want to go to college?
Also, just a sidebar, my experience has been that private schools can be no better in helping the 2E kids.

Here's a thought to consider - could he possibly be a bit of a visual-spatial learner, maybe with fine motor problems? The tip-offs are enjoying taking things apart and putting them back together, but being frustrated by legos, etc., and your post just above about the ideal school situation as having visual inputs and oral outputs (though lectures would be an auditory input).

In any event, it sounds like written output is the crux of the problem - do I have that right? And thinking out loud here, is it accurate to say that verbal output in an oral format is not a problem, whereas verbal output in a written format is? In other words, does he have the same "processing speed" issue with oral output as with written?

With a writing output problem, I'd definitely want to consider fine motor issues as well as a possible vision processing issue (though the fact that he's an excellent reader might point away from that). Has he been evaluated for either? Both of those problems may be forms of sensory processing issues (which is a vast world much larger than just tactile issues). OT can help fine motor, and keyboarding also seems to be the way to go, as far as school goes. For example of what can be done educationally, maybe a 504 plan that allows him to do his work on a computer. As for vision processing, there's vision therapy, which is often quite successful in fixing such a problem (my dd just finished this).

As for processing speed, supposedly it can be improved, though I think it's at least a little controversial as to whether the improvement is permanent. There are all kinds of therapies out there (I'm thinking along the lines of Interactive Metronome, etc.) though I really don't know any more about it, and I don't know if I'd be sure that was the problem.

Here are a few websites:
http://www.visualspatial.org/ (about visual-spatial learners - what one is, etc. plus helpful articles at the articles tab)
www.covd.org (about vision processing issues and how to find the right type of optometrist to do such an evaulation; not just any eye doc does this, and usually not opthamologists)
http://www.spdnetwork.org/aboutspd/defining.html (about sensory processing)

The other question I would have is what you mean exactly by learning holistically - do you mean learning whole before parts/details, as opposed to step by step (a visual spatial learner issue), or do you mean something else more general?

With written output taking so long, I think it would be very important to get to the bottom of whether it's truly some sort of general mental processing speed issue or whether it's a fine motor or vision issue, since those might well be treatable.

Just my two cents - I'll try to think more about it...

I also second the recommendation for the book The Mislabeled Child by the Eides. The book distinguishes between many different types of issues that are sometimes confused with one another. ADD is one of the topics.

Also, there's a recent thread on one of these boards on ADHD and giftedness, which I haven't read through yet.

And an interesting link I came across once upon a time http://borntoexplore.org/gifted.htm about how difficult it may be to distinguish between giftedness and add/adhd - more food for thought.

To calizephyr,
My son is taking the standard classes the teachers compile for all 7th graders: 2 LA, 1 Science, 1 Math, Health/PE (supplanted with his gifted class this 1/2 of the semester), Spec. Ed. class (in lieu of a music class). And it was he who alerted me to the fact that he won't be able to attend the universities he'd like because of the lack of Math proficiency. I hadn't arrived there yet. He is looking forward to college. He sees the big picture and looks ahead. When problem-solving, he uses a wide array of resources. For example, if I were to teach him about an apple, I'd need to start by showing him the whole apple, then dissect it in portions, down to the seed. Whereas most teachers start with the seed because the students don't understand the whole apple at first. Does that make sense? Given this understanding of him, the answer is yes, he does anticipate college. He knows he wants to be in an occupation that only comes from higher education. And he gets that.
To Snowgirl, he likes taking things apart...not putting them together. That's why he doesn't do things like Legos. Learning how things function by taking them apart is his motivation.

Eema, I excited to hear more of what you have found successful because your child shares my child's weaknesses and strengths. What medication have you found useful?

I've had a few other parents tell me to homeschool my son. What is the consensus among the writers of this forum regarding homeschooling the 2E?

Idahomom, if he learns best by hearing about the whole apple first before the seeds, the opposite of how most teachers teach, that is a very common visual-spatial learner problem, and in that case I'd strongly encourage you to take a look at that website. There are a couple articles dealing with math as well. What, specifically, seems to be his difficulty with math, if you know?

How was his perceptual reasoning score on the WISC? Just wondering, thinking about whether whatever the problem is affected that as well.

snowgirl,
His Perceptual Reasoning was lower than his Verbal Comprehension at 110. Does that mean something? Thanks again for all your helpful input. He does alright in Math tests, but doesn't turn in his assignments fast enough. He says by the time he finishes one assignment, there's 4 more to be done.

Eema, because your child exhibits the same strengths and weaknesses as my son, I'm curious to know what educational choice you've made. Do you collaborate a lot with his teachers? Is he homeschooled? Is is in a private school?

Secondly, does your son have a strong work ethic. I question my son's. It's hard sometimes to distinguish between his slow processing speed, ADD, and simply lack of motivation to work. Do you know what I mean?

Could you add an accommodation to his IEP for a scribe or for reduced workload?

My daughter is also highly verbal and has a comparatively low perceptual reasoning score. The psychologist told me that her PRI score was affected by a visual-motor integration problem because the PRI subtests are highly visual and require building patterns with blocks, for instance. The visual-motor problem also causes her to have trouble with writing which slows her down on any type of assignment, including math. By the way, the subtests for processing speed on the WISC include "Coding" which requires the copying of symbols. Her score on that was much lower than her verbal scores, too.

His IEP includes a provision for reduced workload. If he turns in an assignment 80% complete--it's complete. But his teachers aren't following it. I've e-mailed them, with no response.

How does someone scribe for him? How does that work? How does someone scribe for her? Plus, I'm a little confused about how your daughter and my son could be visual-spatial learners when they're verbal scores are so high and their scores on block design and spatial stuff were so low. I'm experiencing a learning curve here, I think. I've taken the Visualspacial.org's "Is your child a visual/spatial learner? quiz. My score suggests he might be. Although in the areas where he doesn't fit...he really doesn't fit. For example, he's a very good speller and always has been. His great spelling is so natural and easy for him. He can't do puzzles and hates Legos, K'Nex, blocks, etc. He remembers both visual and audio. Hears it once and he can memorize it and recall it.

I don't necessarily think that my DD is a VS learner. She has some of the characteristics (different ones from you son) but not all. Even if a person is good at thinking visually or processing visual input they can still have a problem with motor output of visual info. From my understanding of the Eide's book, you can think of the brain as having various inputs (visual, auditory, tactile, etc.) and various outputs (motor, speech, etc.) If there is a bottleneck in one these the person has trouble processing incoming information or producing certain kinds of output. So it is possible, for instance, to have great vocabulary, comprehension, writing and reading skills but be unable to express oneself verbally on a comparable level to one's understanding. Producing written output is such a complex task that a bottleneck in just one area can affect performance. Things become even more complicated when somebody has more than one bottleneck!

I don't think that you have to have an affinity for puzzles or building things to be a VS learner. From how you describe your son's thinking style, it sounds like he is a big-picture person who sees something as a whole concept and then looks at the details. A more sequential learner would look at how the details go together and then see the big picture. At least, that's how I understand it . I think that visual/spatial vs. auditory/sequential is a very broad distinction and not very useful in a lot of situations.

My DD doesn't have a scribe at school although I sometimes scribe for her on homework. She tells me what to write or how to do a math problem and I just write what she says. If it's an actual handwriting practice assignment she does that herself. Lately, she has preferred typing her homework because she recently increased her keyboarding speed to where typing is faster than writing.

What if you initial his homework yourself and add a note that you have checked it and it is complete per his IEP? Often, teachers have other people grading the homework and even recording the scores. His accommodation is just slipping through the cracks!

Since no one has addressed your homeschooling question, I'll just chime in to say that because of the completely individualized nature of a HS education, HSing can be a GREAT option for a kid with 2E issues!

We're HSing, and it's been a good choice for us. DS6 does not have 2E issues, though he has some "bottlenecks," in that he tests with significantly lower scores in processing speed and working memory than he tests on the other areas. HSing means I can allow for those areas of relative weakness while still challenging DS6 in those areas where he's far ahead of most kids his age. It works very well for us.

If you have any specific questions about HSing, just ask! I'll be happy to help, as will others, I know.

K-

Idahomom, there is a fabulous book on visual-spatial learners, which is unfortunately out of print, though every now and then a reasonably-priced used copy appears on amazon (today they're all ridiculously priced). It's Upside Down Brilliance, by Linda Silverman. I got a copy when my dd was tested at the Gifted Development Center, which she runs. Anyway, I remember her book discussing the problem of vision processing issues (visual motor being one kind) in visual-spatial learners - she said it's like being handicapped in your strong suit, or some such thing. In my dd's case, dd very much fit the VSL profile, except that when it came to the block design portion of the WISC, the tester could tell by the way she did the harder problems (she skewed them or something) that there might be a vision problem. They believed she would otherwise have scored better on that section, and they encouraged us to test her again after doing vision therapy. They also noted that the fact that dd wasn't more adept at puzzles was another sign of a vision issue, in light of how strongly they believed her to be a VSL. At the time, it all seemed rather irritating, since not three weeks before dd had had a full checkup with a pediatric opthamologist who had not found any problems (but it was the wrong doc/wrong testing). She has made considerable progress due to the vision therapy; she just finished a 6-month program last week.

Other people are more balanced when it comes to visual-spatial (right brain) vs auditory-sequential (left brain), it's not an all-or-nothing proposition, and where there are weaknesses on one side, the person tends to rely on a comparative strength of the other side to compensate. Ironically, in DD7's case, in spite of the fact that she had great difficulty learning to read phonetically, she is now an excellent speller (according to the teacher, anyway), and I think it's because she has built such a large sight-word vocabulary due to this visual-spatial learning style (combined with the fact that there are so many english words that are exceptions-to-the-rule in terms of phonetics).

Also, on the writing issue, here are a couple articles I happened to come across, in case they might be helpful:
http://www.dukegiftedletter.com/articles/nov7no2_cc.html
http://www.visualspatial.org/Articles/poorhand.pdf

hope this helps; it seems like you may be getting closer to the bottom of the mystery of your son.

P.S. I realized my earlier post might sound like I'm evangelical about homeschooling. Let me assure you that I'm not. I'm a big believer in doing whatever works for your specific situation. Sometimes that might be HSing; often it's not.

I just didn't want you to worry that if you asked a question, you'd get the hard-sell. I'm not here to push.

eema, could you please tell me about your reward system? DS7 also responds to rewards, and our OT said that it's good incentive for him, too. Quite frankly, I don't know whether he's ADD, inattentive variety, or is simply the GT Grinity alluded to. But nevertheless, some things are hard for him and he needs incentive. Thanks!

idahomom:
has your child been assessed at all by an OT? Does he have dyspraxia? I'm finding that a lot of GT kids with dyspraxia are soooo smart they learn how to compensate and work extra hard to "hide" it. There's something about your description of him and his task performance that makes me wonder.

I am currently homeschooling my 2E dd. I was very unhappy with how her school was dealing with her. I've spent this year not teaching her (because she's ahead anyway) but teaching her "systems"-- how to get work done, how to organize, etc. We've explored ways that she can deal with her issues; for example, typing and writing practice, reading for comprehension, etc.
She has made great progress, but I will say that her (and my) goal is for her to be able to be back in school again. She really, really loves school and so my homeschooling is merely training to get her back into what she really wants. So she will go to a new school next year, and if that doesn't work out, I know I can take over again. One thing I have heard time and time again about educating 2E kids is one year at a time, or one semester at a time even! I completely agree that the plan is always changing, and one must take one step at a time!

Thank you. And re: ADD, again, I watched DS almost walk into a door tonight because he was so busy looking at something else. Made me remember the time he walked into a lamp post at age 5 or so upon leaving a museum. He was so intent on studying the toy he just got that he did not look at where he was going. Is that ADD, or is that just hyperfocus? In any event, I think we'll try a more formal reward system. Surprisingly, homework is no problem this year, but I'd like to see him do more reading and writing. Thank you.

LOL! I don't know how many times I walked into stuff when I was a kid. I don't think I had ADD...I was just living in my head

My son sounds similar to yours in some ways. He hated puzzles and he hated coloring. The Kindergarten teacher wanted to hold him back in a transitional first grade (a year in between kindergarten and first) because he wouldn't color in the lines and handwriting was sloppy. We have homeschooled since he finished Kindergarten and it works well for him. He types most of his work and does minimal writing.

He has loved National Geographic magazine since he was four years old, is very verbal and can carry on a conversation about so many different things because he is interested in so many different things. He absolutely loves to learn and talk about the interesting things he has learned. He likes to watch quiz shows to test his knowledge. He likes to read random Wikipedia articles for fun.

Our school just focuses on the fact that kids like mine don't color very well, can't cut with scissors very fast, and their handwriting is slow. I tried to explain my son's differences to so many people and most just don't get what twice exceptional means. Maybe I am just not very good at explaining it.

His doctor says she did not think he had ADD because he is not impulsive, but a few years ago she said some people might think he had ADD because he was very fidgety and needed frequent breaks.

What my son does have is sensory integration dysfunction and motor dyspraxia and he is finaly getting OT. He was not eligible for OT in school because he was above grade level in reading and math in Kindergarten. Doctors didn't think my son's problems were anything to worry about and they told me he would do very well in school because he read very early and was very articulate. I did not find out the name for my son's problems until recently. I spent many, many hours on the internet trying to find answers and I remember someone told me a couple of years ago that her son was diagnosed with dyspraxia and that my son sounded similar. But when I looked up info on this it said symptoms of dyspraxia can include difficulty with reading, writing and speech, poor social skills and poor short-term memory. My son did not have these problems and I didn't realize that he didn't have to have every symptom to have motor dyspraxia.

I could never find any one thing that seemed to fit my son until I learned about sensory integration dysfunction, especially proprioceptive dysfunction. I wish I had known about this earlier. I had to figure this out by myself with a little help from friends on message boards. To get a referral to the developmental pediatrician and the OT, I had to print out the symptoms I found on the internet, write down examples, and take it to the doctor.

Kriston, we know you are not a hard sell. You are one who is always ready and willing to give us good advice and I value you as a great i-friend with the fringe benefit of great HS resource!

Thanks, 'Neato. You know I'm not a hard-sell, and I know it, but I was afraid a new person wouldn't know it.

I know that before I was ready to homeschool, anyone pushing it on me would have been met with an inward eyeroll. Even when I started asking questions about it, I just could not listen to the homeschool evangelists. Maybe it's the rebel in me who doesn't want to be told what to do. I dunno. But whatever it is, I don't want anyone to think that's who I am! :p

Kriston, I didn't percieve your comments as pushy in any way, or evangelical about homeschooling. Every post has been so informative, including yours.

A question for Lori H.: could you refer me to the sources you used to learn more about sensory integration dysfunction, and proprioceptie dysfunction? Your correct, our sons seem very much alike.

It's a good place that way, idaho! I'm glad you're finding what you need.

Hi, I'm not Lori H (nor do I play her on TV!) but I am an OT trained in sensory integration. Here are some websites/books that are helpful in understanding SI issues:

http://www.sinetwork.org/

http://www.sensory-processing-disorder.com/

Books: Sensory Integration and the Child by A. Jean Ayres (I highly recommend this one)
The Out of Sync Child (and other titles) by Carol Stock Kranowitz


And for dyspraxia:

http://www.dyspraxiafoundation.org.uk/

Great website with descriptions of behaviors/performance issues noted at different ages. Dyspraxia is one type of sensory processing disorder.

Hope this helps.

Debbie, I went to your recommended website www.sinetwork.org--thanks for telling me about it! Is it possilbe for a teen who has the same hyper-senses as outlined in the Sensory-Over Responsive child NOT shy away from them in public, and become overwhelmed to the point of unexplainable tears, anxiety, fatigue, and sometimes illness later at home? My son has always had heightened senses--as described for the child who is over responsive. However, he does the actions often associated with the Sensory-Under Responsivity person--producing accidental injuries, being overly agressive at play, etc. Is it possible to have elements or symptoms of both? Or would this suggest the person simply isn't SPD?

Second question preceded by a little explanation:
Yesterday he had a particularly hard day at school--emotional roller coaster ride where he tried his upmost to do well and felt unusually good about himself, then got yelled at for something that wasn't his fault by an admired teacher, then had 2 physically demanding activities following school and by the time he got home, he was sensory-wasted. He was confused, fatigued, cried and cried. This morning he was shaky and complained that he didn't feel well. He decompressed some more, then went to school quite late because he felt better. My question is how to know if his hypersensitivities are creating the emotional hardship or not.

Hi Idaho,
It was very interesting to read your post. Your DD sounds alot like my brother. My brother eventually took himself out of school and homeschooled himself. He used alot of online tools and really indiviualized it. He was highschool aged and was able to create his own program by using an online charter school and a kind of independent study where he could study what he was into and then write about it at his own pace or do online discussions. He graduated on time which by this point was a big deal because he finished a couple of years of schooling in several months. He is now in collage and doing very well, although for certain classes he has to take a lighter class load. He had alot of the same sensory issues and processing issues. I took a collage class with him and durring exams he was always in testing way way longer than anyone else, but he always had the high score. I remember when he was a kid, the school said he was ADHD and put him on ritalin. He reacted pretty badly, and used to cheek the stuff and pass it to me to toss. The school said he was so much better on the drugs, but he was never really on them. I used to have long in depth conversations with him about shows he would watch on the Discovery or the History channel when he was like 7 or 8. Then he would go to school where he was in a special ED room most of the day coloring and they could not figure out why he kept running away from school. Anyway, I think it is wonderful that you are so interested in helping him find a good fit. How lucky a child is to have someone who understands them and works to change things. I hope you find a good fit.

Idahomom: it is entirely possible for a child to display signs of both over sensitivities and under responsiveness to sensory information. It is referred to as a modulation disorder. Modulation refers to the ability to notice and respond to relevant sensory information in an manner appropriate to the situation. People with modulation disorders have difficulty selectively attending to sensory information (ie: filtering irrelevant info out, attending to what is meaningful) and even more difficulty responding to it appropriately (reactions seem out of proportion to the intensity of the stimulus). What's worse is that the same sensory input can at one time be aversive and then the next time not even noticed. Very frustrating for everyone, especially the person whose system never knows what to expect in terms of sensory input. People can also just have hypersensitivities to certain input (like sound) and hyposensitivities to other input (like vision or vestibular input).

It certainly sounds like your son is highly sensitive and responds to sensory input, but also to the emotional content of situations. Using sensory strategies can help a lot to manage the stress in life, whether there is a "disorder" or not. Google for "sensory diets" and you'll find good info on how to use sensory tools for calming and relaxation. The Alert Program is a great way to teach the concept, but is geared for kids ages 8 -12. It can be adapted though (www.thealertprogram.com)

But it sounds like your son might benefit from some help in learning how to cope with those emotional stressors during the day. I don't really have any handy resources for that. My DS7 is the same way at times, getting overloaded by his reaction to events of the day, not really the sensory experiences per se, but more of the Emotional OEs kicking in. Perhaps some GT resources about OEs might have some help there. Check out the SENG website for articles (www.sengifted.org) on emotional health for gifties.

There's a lot of overlap with OEs and SI disorders. A lot of confusion as to what constitutes a disorder and what is just individual differences. The book "Living Sensationally: Understanding Your Senses" by Winnie Dunn is a great resource for just learning how sensory processing affects all of us differently and uniquely. Each nervous system truly is unique, some just have more difficulty with certain processing than others.

HTH some more!

Intersting Debbie, DD5 is currently working with a child psyd. for OE's. I am suspecting more and more there are some SI issues at play.
Thanks for listing all the valuable resources.

Skyward: my heart breaks for your brother's experience in school. I am so pleased to hear he is doing well in college, not surprising at all! Amazing people are capable of amazing things, I'm glad to hear he is high functioning with his level of sensitivities.

I don't think that there is any consensus here except for -

Be flexible. Be willing to try homeschooling and see what works - (LoL 'Could things be any worse?') There is also afterschooling, where he does online classes or summer camps aimed for gifted kids and gets to be amoung other who are 'like him.'

Each kid, and each family situation, is individual, so being willing to try things and see how they work and come back and let us know is my 'ideal.'

Love and More Love,
Grinity

That's a problem right there, that perhaps could be helps with some advocacy efforts. If there are no responces to e-mail, perhaps to send another email, and say that if there is no answer then you will be contacting the principle. Alternative is to set up a face to face meeting. Funny, a lot of parents go to homeschooling when the are putting more efforts into advocacy than they are into parenting.

BTW - Compacting the curriculum is a time honored gifted stragy. In Math, for example, the teacher identifies the 5 toughest problems on a sheet of 25, and any kid who does the toughest 5 without error, get to skip the rest. This is from a book called something like Teaching Gifted Children in Regular Classroom. A worthy read.

How would your son do in math if he had only to do the 'hardest 20%?'

Smiles,
Grinity

In addition to the good sources below, I'd like to add that my son's SI issues didn't really 'click' for me until I read the articles on SI in 'Uniquely gifted: Identifying and Meeting the Needs of the Twice-Exceptional Student' Edited by Kiesa Kay.

Idahomom - I strongly reccomend you order this book on Amazon today, even though it was published way back in 2000. Also a highlighter with the sticky notes build in - LOL - there is a lot of material there!

Best Wishes,
Grinity

Neato - I think that for (Many) HG/PG kids at least, there isn't a difference between OE and SI issues. The difference is that SI issues have interventions aimed at relieving the issues, and the OE model focuses on the adults being understanding and not creating extra issues. Be for I learned about SI stuff, I unawarely did all the OE interventions because I remembered my own childhood, and had observed my family members. Then I learned about SI and DS11 got 6 month is treatment, which helped tremendously. I often am so glad that I 'bumped' into the SI literature before I found the OE literature, but I suspect that if I had read the OE literature I would have patted myself on the back for compensating so well, and just 'tried to live with' the issues.

I think of DS as having OE Issues that responded well to SI interventions. Right now he's on the school Lacrosse team - playing goalie. He gets to put on the heavy tight protective gear AND get hit by the those hard balls. Talk about Modulation - that addresses the over and the under SIs all at once!

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity, Debbie told me where to start in looking for an eval and I will be making a few calls today.
Funny, I haven't literally spent more time advocating for DD5 than parenting, but it's getting pretty tiresome and it does tend to move me towards Home School.

Neato

OK maybe not more time, but perhaps more energy and heartache?

Good luck with the OT!
grin

i just read this post - though its old i thought i would add my 2 cents....your child sounds like mine who was finally diagnosed by a neuropychologist with mild asperger syndrome and some other neurological impairments - for instance, the hemispheres of his brain do not communicate together properly. He was brilliant and getting low grades at the same time. A huge factor is how they veiw themselves. Counseling for self esteem, me learning how to communicate with a an AS child, a constant advocate for him at his school, he needs to listen to music while he thinks up an idea - takes forever but then he produces an exceptional paper. if he has to dance with headphones in his ears to come up with the ideas i let him - he is now a STRAIGHT A second year college student. He works slow and methodical - he needed the extra time. Fight for him - he is a special unique child who cannot fit into the mold. and recheck the ADD diagnosis. They always think they have ADD....not saying he doesn;t - but the only testing tht really helped us was with the neuropsychologist and insurance covered most of hit.

OMG...I feel like I am typing your initial post and all of your responses bc my dd 10 is EXACTLY the same way. We have been through 3 different batteries of testing. the diagnoses are:
ADD
APD (auditory processing disorder)
SID (sensory integration disorder)
Her biggest problem in school is the slow processing speed. She is falling further and further behind, although she is an extremely intelligent child who loves to learn and works and tries very hard.
Therefore, the said she has now developed an emotional disorder based on her struggles.
I have tried and tried to get the school to help her and work with her and give her accommodations, but they still can't figure out how to best help her and expect her to be able to keep up in the classroom. I am at the point of trying homeschooling. I am at a loss as to how to help her be successful in school when we have tried all that I know to try.

You ask about whether this profile is shared by others. My son is highly verbal and has a processing speed in the 4th percentile. He is also has ADHD-in, fine motor difficulties and severe dyslexia.

Unfortunately for my son, the language based learning disabilities and poor executive functioning skills make it very hard for him to keep up with the pace and quantity of school work, despite his intelligence. He has attended a special ed school for kids with dyslexia for 5 years and will attend a science/technical school in HS that allows him to be outside and demonstrate his knowledge and leadership in alternative ways. Tests, papers and traditional schooling just don't work for him.

My son, too, is highly verbal, has a processing speed that is very low (2nd percentile on the WISC-IV),and has motor disabilities, problems with visual processing and visual-motor integration, and an autism spectrum diagnosis.

We homeschool so that we can accommodate his strengths and weaknesses in a way that works for him. We're working on getting him accommodations for standardized testing right now so that he can take the math and writing portions of the ACT and SAT with some chance of being able to demonstrate what he can actually do in these areas.

My son has tested consistently in the 10th percentile in auditory processing and 9th percentile in cognitive fluency since the 3rd grade. This was confirmed in both the 9th and 10th grade with additional testing. No one believes he has a disability with processing because he has an incredible fund of knowledge and scores highly on IQ tests that don't have timed auditory sections.
They tried to label him with ADD; however, being a physician, I knew that he did not fit the pattern. He can concentrate; however, he soon gets lost and therefore no longer pays attention. This is VERY different than having ADD. Have you ever tried to pay attention to a lecture that you cannot follow? By the time you figure out the first sentence said, the speaker has completed several more sentences. You can never catch up! Your mind will naturally wander.
After the second set of tests showed that my son had this severe learning disability, I applied and fought for a 504 plan. After suggesting that I was employing an education attorney, the 504 was granted. In the 504, my son gets a reduced work load. If the teacher assigns a worksheet, she must give him only a fraction of the questions to complete. If it is a research paper, he does not have to cite as many references or write as many pages. He also has extended time on tests and assignments. You have to be very careful because if they just give extended time, your child will just get further and further behind. The school has to dramatically reduce the work load or your child cannot keep up. The teachers are also required to give him full sets of class notes. Obviously if you cannot process auditory input quickly, there is no way you can take your own notes.
Because my son is bright and socially engaging, I have to constantly remind the teacher, counselor and special education department to stick with his 504. It is almost impossible to tell that he has a problem by just observing him.
We just applied for, and received, special accommodations on the SAT. All of his classmates took the regular SAT today. My son is taking it spread out over Monday and Tuesday of next week.
I still have to do a lot of encouragement at home but we now enjoy As and Bs on report cards and not Ds and Fs.
From research I did when I first figured out why my son was struggling, the combination of slow processing speeds and high IQs is most common among gifted boys.
The real trick will be figuring out my son's career path. Most jobs require at least a modicum of productivity per unit time. Fortunately he has an Irish tenor voice that flows like melted chocolate and he can deliver a punch line in a play with perfect timing so we are exploring the performing arts. There will still be challenges with processing speed.
Best of luck with your children! If in public school, work hard to get a 504 plan. Federal law requires all schools, including universities and professional schools, to give the accommodations once they are granted. In other words, the accommodations will follow your child through his or her academic career.
Hope some of this helps!