Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 504 advice for 3E (gifted, depressed kid with add)

My 9yo ds has major depression and adhd. He's hating 4th grade and refusing to go to his public school. I looked into switching him into a school for gifted kids, but to my despair his behavioral issues are more than the current class at the gifted school can accommodate. They may be able to take him next year, but for now we are trying to finish out his year in public school and get him a 504. We're meeting with the school tomorrow at noon. Is it at all worth trying to get accommodations for his giftedness (currently he gets none), with the argument that boredom is contributing to both his depression and his disruptiveness? I'm sure that's true, but I don't know whether I'll piss the administration off with this kind of argument. Especially if there's no hope for gain I want to be careful. Thanks in advance!

My DD's "third E" is anxiety that manifested in school anxiety big time last year. I found a psychologist with a specialty in school anxiety/ school phobia and it has really helped. We were on the edge of full blown school refusal. She helps not only by working with DD but probably just as important to explain and advocate with the school. Also nice to know I have her in our corner if we need a letter to back- up a request.

From my understanding it is really important to do whatever you can to keep him going to school daily so his "hating" school and "refusing" to go doesn't turn into a really big problem. If gifted work will get him to school then by all means ask for it. I only found the terms "school refusal" and "school phobia" after we were already well down the path to them. If you google the terms you'll find some good strategies for approaching the school at your meeting. Good luck!

Random thought... with the holidays coming up, hopefully his batteries will recharge... maybe the private school would allow him to sit in/audit a couple of days in the beginning of next semester as a way of providing a carrot for behavioral turn around (or to see if it is the carrot needed.)

3E!! That's us too (anxiety being #3).

JSMD have you tried counseling for your son? It helped my two. My DS8 (also ADHD) saw an anxiety counselor (privately) when he was 7, and my DD10 has met with the school counselor. Our school is really proactive about this kind of thing and runs regular programs (for all the kids) to counter-act anxiety.

Also, is he intellectually challenged outside of school? That can help as well. If he has a hobby or some other outlet for his mental energy this can help lift his spirits. It may not make him want to attend school any more, but it can soothe his angst.

I was the depressed, gifted kid, and home was my sanctuary after school - I spent all my time reading, drawing, and writing music. My parents wisely just let me be. My mom on occasion would say "why don't you call a friend and go out?" ...but never forced me to. Honestly, my parents are what got me through my depressed times. They were my anchor, and my "safe place."

Pemberly has an excellent point that you should make sure your son continues to attend school. A friend of mine has a friend with a gifted son who is so depressed that he is skipping school, which of course makes the school less likely to accelerate or enrich.

One other thought: have you ruled out (if that's possible) bullying? Would your DS open up and tell you if something like that was going on?

I have a son who was depressed last year in 4th because of the lack of challenge in school. He didn't have behavioral issues, and was already accelerated, so that might have made the school more willing to accommodate. But we made radical changes to his curriculum this year (online math, a mentor and different LA) and he's back to normal.

But in contrast to what the others are suggesting, I give my son mental health/recharge days when he needs it. He's extremely busy out of school with a sport and several academic extra curriculars, so I understand how he can get burned out. Even with his changed curriculum, he's not anywhere near the top of his challenge-level, so I think it's fine for him to sit out a day if he needs it. And just knowing he's allowed to do that made a huge difference in his moods. He now knows there's an "out." I trust him not to abuse it and he's only taken 2 days this year, but I expect he'll take more later in the year.

I saw this too late to give any advice - I think your meeting is probably already over (?)... FWIW, I think it's always reasonable to ask for intellectual and academic challenges as part of a package of accommodations for our gifted children, but I also think it's something that schools often aren't wanting to hear about, particularly if the reason the 504 team is meeting is due to behavior issues. It helps if you can have any kind of professional backup showing that boredom and lack of intellectual challenge is contributing to the behavior - someone with credible credentials (neuropsych, counselor, etc) who knows your ds and knows his abilities and understands how his giftedness impacts his behaviors in school.

One other thing I wonder about - I think your ds (from looking at past posts) has a wide spread in his WISC scores with a dip in processing speed significantly lower than his other scores (please ignore me if I'm mistaken!). If that's the case, do you think there's any possibility that whatever is driving the lower processing speed score might be impacting his work in the classroom? If that's part of what's up, it's possible that another type of accommodation for class work (rather than behavior) might actually have a positive impact on behavior.

Let us know how your meeting went!

polarbear

Another 3E kiddo here-- and recognize that my advice here is probably a little unconventional, but it is coming from a place of being pragmatic and thinking hard about what a school can actually do (as opposed to what they would "like" to do.. er, or "not do" as the case may be-- and knowing that they are very very different things)... versus what the child NEEDS.

There are times when what a child is entitled to by law isn't really feasible in a classroom setting. Oh, sure, maybe short-term. Maybe even on paper, and maybe it SOUNDS as though it's do-able, but that doesn't take into account the classroom environment and the other demands on the teacher/support staff.


KWIM?

While it's true that under the law, there isn't any "reasonableness" clause, and that students ARE entitled to have all of their FAPE needs met in a LRE for them personally...


we've had to wrestle with what to do when "necessary" just isn't "reasonable." Further-- what to do if it seems somewhat unrealistic to think that a particular package of accommodations CAN be sustained.

It means prioritizing what has to happen... and what 'should' but probably will cause the least damage if it doesn't occasionally, or even on a fairly regular basis...

which I realize is far, far from ideal. But this is reality when you get into 3e/4e situations when at least two of those exceptionalities are completely unrelated to one another. (for example-- gifted + cystic fibrosis + mental health issue... or ADD + immune deficiency + NVLD)


I don't mind conflict in advocacy if it's to a larger purpose, of course.

But we've opted NOT to send our 3E (PG + anxiety-perfectionism + medical-disability) child into a classroom environment. This was clearly the right solution, and honestly, we're sort of fortunate that it is SO clear in our case.

We did finally hit upon one solution-- virtual school. It's not perfect, and requires fairly regular tweaking, and we hate it some of the time....

but it seems to be the least-worst environment over all, and because it takes one exceptionality (medical condition) mostly out of the picture advocacy-wise, it allows us to focus on the other two needs instead.

What does your child's mental health professional have to say about this?

Thanks, everyone!! I was able to quickly scan your responses before the meeting, so they were indeed helpful. Here's the situation: the kid has some baseline depression, probably genetic, in addition to the depression from school. He's seeing a wonderful shrink and takes antidepressants, which help a lot. The 504 is to address his ADD issues and also occasional emotional outbursts. I have no doubt that he has ADD in addition to just being bored. At the meeting they had a lot of great suggestions for the ADD. I read aloud from his neuropsych test report the neuropsych's recommendations for doing one on one mentorship projects and having a chance to share his various interests with the class. I recall that was all she thought the public schools would accommodate. I left it at that, and the school was happy to implement those suggestions. They do IXL at school, which allows him to skip to different grade levels of math, at least, though it doesn't include any instruction, which he definitely needs.

I was all excited about our meeting, until ds came home and complained again about how boring school was. Now that he's visited other schools, especially the gifted one, he knows what school could actually be like and he wants that. My husband and I are going to visit three different schools this week, including a Montessori, a small, relatively traditional school that claims to offer differentiation, and the Sage School, which is another gifted school. It's tough, because though he's very bright I don't think he could handle a heavy workload, even if it's interesting.

He has spent a good portion of the last month at home, partly because he was transitioning between antidepressants at the same time his teacher was sick and there was a different sub every day for 2 weeks. It was a good respite for him, but I frankly need more time for my own career and I get way too impatient with him to consider homeschooling seriously. Maybe if he weren't depressed underneath it all, I could handle it.

Anyway, thanks so much. You guys are way more patient at home than I am.