Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Elite Colleges Admissions Merit Based?

Congrats by the way.

I know that a lot of schools outside the ivies are courting NMSF with free rides. I agree this might depress some apps.

But, the article quotes the Ivies that they only accept 25% of the perfect SATs. So they are not starved for top tier apps.

Have just discussed this point with someone familiar with it.

It's more subtle than giving a million bucks in exchange for the admission. If my source is correct, you're donating the money because you think College X is so swell. This is totally irrelevant to the fact that Junior applied or got wait-listed, and anyway, even if it was, there's no guarantee that Junior will get in. It's a charitable donation, after all. Hello, plausible deniability.

Also, as for the alum children (and friends of alums) admissions, my understanding is that admissions are heavily influenced by parental schmoozing. For example, Mummy/Daddy and the admissions people belong to the same club and socialize occasionally. Daddy mentions that Junior applied to College X and that he really thinks the world of it. And you love your alma mater so much, you're thinking of helping out with "development" efforts this year. But if you do, there's no guarantee that Junior will get in because of your actions!

Meh.

Me? You're the one who seemed to think that the religion of the leadership of Caltech was important. You started this whole thing by linking to an article talking about over-representation of Jews at leading universities, from a notoriously right-wing source. This whole thread is trending towards conspiracy theory loony-land.

I did ask you not to polititroll. You declined the request.

I actually know of a conversation regarding a million dollars in exchange for admission. However, I don't think that said potential enrolee ever got the million out of the family piggy bank (which was full of many such millions), so it never went anywhere, but for want of the million dollars.

I take it that you just confirmed my thesis that money is useful for services?

UC Davis is a public school. So is the University of Michigan. You mentioned Title IX before, so maybe you should read it:

"in regard to admissions to educational institutions, this section shall apply only to institutions of vocational education, professional education, and graduate higher education, and to public institutions of undergraduate higher education;"

Hmmm... public undergrad programs are covered, private undergrad programs are excluded.

You also mentioned the CRA of 1964. The part of that law that applies specifically to colleges is "TITLE III--DESEGREGATION OF PUBLIC FACILITIES"... notice a key word there?

So again, the question remains, what law/s are the Ivies violating?

Umm.

Dude, you've admitted in at least one other thread that you like to argue for its own sake. Yesterday, I wrote something about the band room incident. You did such a masterful job of contorting the meaning of my words to manufacture controversy, I considered suggesting that you seek employment as a commentator on Fox News, if you don't do that already.

Personally, I'm tired of your constant baiting and thread inflaming. Too many threads get derailed.

I know that lots of people here (myself included) write things that may be provocative, but in my case at least, I'm offering honest opinions and not tossing out statements designed to sidetrack a debate and/or create a shouting match. I get an strong impression of "designed to manufacture controversy" from a lot of what you write. There are lots of internet forums that encourage this kind of thing, but IMO, this isn't one of them. Of course, this is just my humble (but honest) opinion.

"On the other hand, I know from some kids here in Dallas that a lot of kids do apply to Ivies and do not get accepted despite NMSF, straight A's and and AMC Honor Roll."

I think you are missing the point on who the tippy top colleges ARE accepting. They are looking for the kid who is smart enough, but also swims against the tide and has something special -- some special research experience, or has delved deeply into (and published) something important in an area like philosophy, or has won major national music competitions, or something like that. They get a ton of NMSF, straight A, AMC honor roll kids. So just because you know a bunch of them in Dallas who did not get in does NOT mean that they are favoring Jewish applicants just on the basis of their ethnicity/religion/last name, for crying out loud. The point is that they are not looking for the heads-down race-to-the-front-of-the-crowd-of-lemmings kid. They want the ones that are very bright, hardworking, but somehow off the beaten path in their accomplishments and interests. You gotta accomplish a lot to get in, but it is MUCH better to accomplish something unusual than just the standard school activites.

If you want to know how to get your kids into one of those schools, read Cal Newport's book "How to be a High School Superstar: A Revolutionary Plan to Get Into College By Standing Out (Without Burning Out)". His point is that competing head on in the same activities with tens of thousands of other students is not a good way to stand out. There are too many sports team captains, yearbook editors, student body presidents, validictorians, etc. If there are thousands of them in this country, that is not a recipe for success in admissions. Pick something hardly anyone else is doing and excel at that. THAT is the key to admissions to top colleges today, as long as you can keep your GPA at a reasonably high level (3.7 or 3.8 unweighted is fine) and score well on standardized tests.

Now... is it possible that one group or another based on geography, ethnicity, etc. has figured out this forumula and is overperforming on admissions because of it? Very possible. But I hear a lot of whining from parents who don't understand how the game is played today, and don't see why their kid with great statistics did not get in. THIS is why they didn't get in, not because someone stole their spot because their last name starts with Gold.

I cannot remember where I heard/read this, but my recollection is that boys have a slightly lower mean but a higher standard deviation. Therefore boys dominate at the very high end, but girls dominate at a lower level (but still considerably above average).

Speaking of needlessly inflammatory... this post. Way to be exactly what you're complaining about.

As for your complaints about the other thread, I assure you that my reaction to your apologies for adult abuse of authority was quite genuine.

Completely agree. Being able to hide some users' posts would be a really useful feature.