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My son just turned 5 in September. He is a very sweet and shy boy. He has never been in a daycare or preschool setting and only ever been either one on one with me or a sitter. I was really worried about his social development and I knew he was extremely bright so I had him test into kindergarten since he only missed the cutoff by 20 days. His test scores did surprise me a little but I didn't think it was a big deal.

Well after a few days of K (he started 7days late) the teacher had some concerns because he was withdrawn. I was shocked he was having issues and she seemed to want him out after only 3 days. She said she could tell he hadn't been to preschool. After discussing it with a friend she said that his test scores indicated that he was gifted and so I began looking into that. He is really only moderately gifted according to the internet but the psychologist did recommend he get assistance in a gifted program (of course I have no money for that). The more I read about gifted kids the more clear mine came into focus. He is so sensitive and emotional. He isn't bad just very sensitive and only likes getting his way or his feelings get hurt. I thought he was just a brat so I was getting tougher on him because I felt that was ridiculous behavior.

Well after four more days of K they asked him to leave because he wasn't engaging and cried when he didn't get his way. By this time I compiled some information about gifted children but they didn't want to hear it at all. I was told he would mature by next year. Then the principal had the nerve to say that with his intelligence level she would have expected him to be reading already and her kids were reading at 4th grade level before kindergarten.

Honestly, perhaps I am behind the times but I, up to that point, hadn't ever tried to teach him to read. I am busy running a home business so he just quietly entertains himself all day. They said he wasn't writing his name as well as the other kids (it looked fine for 5) when really I was surprised he could write his name at all.

Now I have been working on flash cards with him so he will know all his letters and sounds before he goes next year and he knows 20/26 but its a chore to get him to work. Some days he spouts off all 26 other days he just refuses to participate and shrugs his shoulders like he has no clue what he is looking at. All he does is cry and say I just want to go play. According to the psychologist his "cognitive abilities are significantly advanced for his age" but he doesn't want to work!

I am really new to this gifted thing and I need advice on how to side step this emotionality its driving me nuts!!!! I feel like I'm trying to do what a specialist should be doing and I suck at it. I also have other things to tend to so I cant spend my whole day babying him. At least I have the reassurance that he will be the same next year but if I don't learn to deal with it all his teachers are going to label him as difficult.

Just need support thanks and sorry such a long post I felt the background was necessary to understand my situation.

My advice to you is that if you intend to do this as a DIY project (and it sounds as if you do), then you need to carefully evaluate your child's strengths and weaknesses as objectively as you can-- which you've done pretty well already.

Secondly, ask yourself if there are "problems" there that you can do anything about with changes/behavioral modification, and learn about how to make some of those changes.

I'd (at least for yourself) set clear goals. How much of this you share with your DS is dependent upon his personality and maturity. For some kids, it helps to know that changes in parenting are related to our desire to HELP them in some way.

Does he see any of this as a problem? Or is there any chance that he could be behaving in this way because it produces rewards for him personally? You should consider what he's getting out of the behavior that makes him continue doing it.

It's possible that he's being manipulative (though not necessarily 'deliberate/cold' about it). For some useful tips on managing and defusing that kind of behavior in children, The Manipulative Child is a really good tool-- it focuses on removing the REWARDS for the behavior by changing parental responses to it.

If you feel that emotional intensity is the problem (rather than lack of maturity-- which IS a possibility you should consider, since it sounds as though he's been somewhat sheltered socially and may simply not have had much opportunity to develop that particular set of social skills if the adults in his life have been catering to him), then it would be a good idea to begin to hand over some control to HIM. That is, figure out some ways that he can self-sooth/talk himself down when he's overstimulated. Then let him practice those things regularly, and resist the urge to intervene too quickly.


If your gut tells you that neither of those things "fits" perfectly, then there may be more going on than is within the scope of a parent to handle. Was this a public kindergarten? If so, then there is something fishy about asking a child to LEAVE after less than two weeks.

Either there is something they aren't telling you, or they are probably not somewhere that you wanted your child to start with. Come to think of it, that might be true for a private kindergarten, too.

I agree with you that it could be a reward issue. He wants to go do something else when we are learning so then when he cries or is difficult I don't continue because it is difficult for me. I also agree he hasn't socialized enough which is precisely why I wanted him in school so he could see that is is not always going to get his way. I don't WANT it to be a DIY thing I just feel I have no choice until they let him in next year. Yes it was a public school. I saw all his work he was writing, sorting, learning the letter of the week even though he only was there 8 days total. They had their mind made up after the third day and I forced them to give him more time but the teacher wouldn't meet with me with out the principal and thats when they dropped the bomb no options. And yes it was a public school. One of the highest rated in my area and right by the house. I was shocked they wouldn't let him try another class I really felt the teacher just didn't like his shyness and whinyness. Thank you for the response

Wow, you're in a tough spot. Maybe he just needs more maturity before starting Kindergarten? Could you put him in a half-day program for this year and then re-evaluate? Or, even a mothers-day-out program so he gets some social exposure and you get some time to yourself?

I think if you try to push him to be ready then you'll both end up being miserable. Sounds like he's just not interested, yet, and that's okay, too. Someone once told me, after I asked rhetorically "what do I do with this child?", "Just love him". I thought that was pretty great advice and sometimes forget it in the everyday battles and stress we create.

I know that's not much advice; I hope you get some help here.

Honestly, I would focus on "preparing" him for k next year with experiences rather than flash cards. It doesn't sound like he enjoys them anyways and learning should be fun not a chore, especially at this age. I would say try some classes, outings, etc. to create learning opportunities that are also social experiences. There is often alot you can do at pretty low cost. Parks are great for collecting nature specimens and learning about them. The zoo of course is always a great option, museums, etc. Follow his interests. Teach him to love learning. That will take him much farther than early entrance to kinder would, imo.

doesn't sound to me like he's ready for K yet. I'd just let him enjoy another year at home and see if you can get him into a preschool or other group activity couple times a week. I would only put my child in K early if he really REALLY wanted to go to school and enjoy it there. Otherwise there's plenty of time to go next year.

Plus, the teacher knowing your son was admitted early probably expected him to know things like the whole alphabet (upper and lower case) and other basics since from what I understand, the kids that are admitted early are usually those who are way ahead (reading, doing math operations, etc.) ... they are usually entering K being on the 1st or 2nd grade level or even higher.

So, I'd just let him have fun, forget the flashcards, play games with him, or in my opinion even the right tv show will teach him more and will be more fun than flashcards. And give him a chance to be more emotionally ready for next year.

From what you've written, your child has essentially been a shut-in. You need to give him the ability to socialize, not so much time with flash cards. I see this as an emergency situation. No child should get to age 5 spending all his time with a parent or caretaker. Academics will come-- address his social needs and overall happiness first.

ETA: I realize that you were trying to finally address the need for socialization through early entry to K, but the problem is that you let him languish for far too long, with predictable results. Just as you wouldn't expect a puppy to entertain itself all day with a ball inside a cage while you work on your business, your son has real needs that you have not met up to this point, and that has to change.

What's done is done, and you have to just do your best to remedy the harm caused as well as you can. Immediately get him into as many interactive situations with other people outside the home as much as you can. He may be extremely unsure of himself in any social setting you find for him, and you will have to be creative now in finding ways to help him deal with that. This may take some work, but it's necessary to undo what's gone before.

does your public school district have any early childhood preschool classes? If it does, it could be a good place for socializing and slowly easing in into the school routine.

This... especially since not only was all his time with a parent or caretaker, but too little of that time was interactive. Children can still learn valuable social skills without play dates if they're frequently interacting with multiple adults who actively engage with them at the proper level, model successful behaviors, etc. Children who play by themselves all day learn nothing to help them socially.

The school has obviously picked up on the fact that he's completely unprepared to deal with K on a social level, and disqualified him for early entry based on that lack of "maturity." Another year won't make any difference if he's not practicing the requisite skills during that year.

What did you see that made you worried?


That's probably true; but a child with typically developing social skills can usually pick up the "school skills" (walk in line, don't talk in the hall, sit for circle) pretty quickly.


If he's catered to a lot at home, that can also be because he's effectively trained his caregivers. I'd recommend that you work against his behavioral rigidities by going against his preferences more often. Even something as simple as running out of his favorite snack. Or whatever it is that he resists; make sure it happens often enough that he learns that it's not a disaster to not get his way.

A preschool that will actively work on following instructions and going with the flow seems like a very important option for him.


I wouldn't rely solely on maturation-- I would seek to increase his compliance with instructions (even and especially in things that he actively doesn't want to do). I'd put him into situations that really stretch his abilities to cope and engage.


That was inappropriate.


I can see why school was a big change for him. But it's possible that just being with you, while you're working, he isn't getting the academic or social skills he's going to need.

At this point I wouldn't see it as a gifted/not-gifted issue, but more of a filling in missing skills issue.

HTH

DeeDee

I'm surprised to hear this from someone in education - sure many gifted kids are early readers, but some are not because of learning disabilities. Then there's exposure - not all gifted kids teach themselves how to read in lieu of parental help.


My kids both have awful printing/writing. DS8 still mixes his letter cases and writes some of them in reverse and DD9 is so sloppy... no spaces between words, etc.

Funny story: DD9 had copied math questions down from the board at school for homework. Of course she made a horrible mess and crammed them all together at the bottom of the sheet. She decided to erase them to write them more neatly, but neglected to write them down somewhere else first, so she forgot what they were. (Ha! So there. I've harped SO MANY TIMES about the importance of neat penmanship... maybe this time she'll learn).


Hmmm. LD, or behavioural? It can be so hard to tell. When testing and performance don't match, there's often something else going on, but what? When he doesn't want to participate, could it be due to boredom? Have you tried raising the difficulty level a bit to engage him? What about simple phonetic words?

Gifted kids can shut down when they're bored. It's one of the reason that inclusive, non-differentiated education can be problematic.


Aw, you just haven't learned how yet, that's all. Even the specialists had to start from zero at one point. Asking for opinions and advice from those who've been there is a good place to start

Several things jump out at me.

-It looks like you feel that the school/principal/teacher did not give your son a fair trial in K because they are offended at early entry and high test scores. This may be true. That is not a situation any kid should be in, and I would try to change it before trying school again, either by going elsewhere for K next year or by developing a good relationship with the school. Stay open to the idea that your impression may be mistaken, too.
(OTOH, I have zero advocacy experience, so I would be looking for lots of advice on how to do that in the coming months.)

-As others have said, a broader range of experience will help tremendously in the next year. You have great suggestions here. Kids aren't supposed to enter K knowing how to read or even necessarily the alphabet or how to write their names. Don't worry about this if he's getting plenty of quality time with an adult, playtime with other kids, and a chance to learn to follow a group. We really liked our preschool gymnastics class for this; they explicitly taught lining up, following directions, separating from parents, etc., and it only took an hour a week.

-Finally, I'm opposed to the use of flashcard drills in young children because they were used on me. My mom tried out some addition cards with me when I was too young to understand why (probably 5). I couldn't figure out why she was asking me *again* the answer to something I had just answered. I concluded that the point must be to recalculate each time from scratch. This made me slower and the decrease in speed made her worried, so we did more drills. To this day I don't trust my math facts recall and recalculate every time, never passed the stupid timed tests in elementary, and generally doubt myself on things I just remember without corroborating information. It's also the earliest and most vivid memory I have of trying to divine the motivation of the person interacting with me because they had ceased to make any sense.

Whatever the cause, it sounds like that K classroom this year would have been a bad fit. Make sure your son knows you don't blame him, and give him the experiences he will need to grow at whatever rate is right for him. It's hard to go wrong at this age if you follow the child.

(by which I mean his interests, level, and needs - learning he doesn't get his way all the time can be a way of following the child, if it's what he needs to learn next. )

Honestly, he's just turned 5 years old - of course he wants to play and doesn't want to work! I wouldn't worry for one minute about trying to drill knowledge into him at this point - gifted kids *seek* knowledge, but not necessarily in the traditional places we as parents think they should look. It's that natural curiosity that's the gift to nurture (jmo), rather than worrying about the nuts and bolts of letter sounds etc. When he's ready to learn to read, he'll learn to read. If he's not starting kindergarten until next year, there's a good chance he'll hit that spot where his natural curiosity takes him there before school starts. If not, he's still going to be ok.

If you are still worried about learning sounds etc I'd recommend something online like starfall (I don't know if they're still around, and I'm sure there are better apps out there too - it's been awhile since we had a beginning reader at our house!)... but something like that is going to be much more interesting than flashcards. But again - I'd skip it all together and just follow your ds' interest wherever it leads

I agree with DeeDee's reply - at this point, it's not a gifted/non-gifted issue that you need to focus on, it's filling in the missing skills surrounding separating, socialization etc.

Best wishes,

polarbear

This is just a total guess on my part, but I'm thinking it's just as likely that the brick wall you've hit are school district rules. Our school district is really adamant and really strict about early entry - they set a timeframe of two weeks past the birthdate deadline for late birthdate kids and early entry. The child has to undergo psych testing (which it sounds like your ds did too), and then they are technically on probation for a certain number of weeks while attending K to determine if they are mature enough to continue with K. My guess is that your ds didn't meet the in-school requirements and the school staff is simply operating based on the guidelines *they* have to follow combined with their experience as early-childhood educators.

I could be entirely wrong of course! But that's just my take on it, fwiw.

polarbear

thank you so much for addressing each topic like that. I really appreciate it. That very thing (running out of his favorite food) always seems like the end of the world. Every single night its a fight at dinner. I think you make a good point that it should happen more often so he learns to cope.

What made me worried about his social development was that he would always quit playing with other kids if he didn't get his way and cry. And he does try to manipulate people and his surroundings...the worst part is its not always overt so it can be hard to control.

You are right about it being a big change for him which is another reason I was angry he didn't get more time. He is smart enough to know "I don't HAVE to participate" so he got exactly what he wanted out of school. He dislikes anything that resembles work so he was rewarded by the school by being relieved of it.

Excellent comment on the phonetic words thing. The reason this whole thing came about to begin with is I was reading with his brother and he would spout off the next word or phrase. SO I sat down to read green eggs and ham to him...well he read it to me. He recognized the pattern and then the words. So it appeared that he was reading the whole thing because he does recognize words and he gets the concept and can predict what should come next. Even better than his older 7yr old brother does. So yes perhaps he is bored. Also I only started the flash cards because he watched a few phonics songs on youtube and so I figured I should support that.

thank you

I agree with DeeDee also. I guess the school made me feel like he SHOULD know those things. Honestly, he says some of the most profound things you could imagine out of a five year old but yep he prefers to play (who doesn't right I'd rather be at the mall than at work). He just doesn't want to be around kids his own age at all. I have been taking him to the gym with me everyday for about a month hoping he would interact and 9/10 times he plays alone perfectly happy while the other kids run all around him. Oh well I cant force him to play with other kids I guess he does it when he wants to. Makes me worry about next year though.

Yea that is exactly right. His scores were excellent and the psych evaluator said he talked it up the entire 90 minutes. He went on and on telling her everything she needed to know. She seemed to think he was very mature and when he is around adults he is....add 20 kids his own age and enter the discomfort zone. I don't think the teacher even spent 5 min with him one on one which is exactly what he needs to feel comfortable.

I admitted him so he could learn those things. He knew about 12-20 letters without being taught just not the sound they made. I also did it because his IQ was so high, and so he could learn to be around other kids. I agree though and like my grandfather said "its not like his IQ is going to drop before next year so why worry about it" So true, I guess there is plenty of time to work in this life and he always amazes me with knowledge.

I just wanted to say thank you to everyone who responded. This is about as close to a parenting handbook is we get; each other.

Hi,

I didn't go to preschool, hadn't had a lot of exposure to same age kids and when I got to K there were quite a few in the same boat. K was a year devoted to getting used to school, routines, readiness, etc. Just in the last 10 years and accelerating all the time, this has changed. At least in my region, K is more like first and there is not much opportunity for kids to socialize: constant direction following, little to no talking to the teacher (they do the talking), strict moment to moment curriculum. There may be toys but they are used for a few minutes a day. Regions do vary, I hear of a few states that have a softer approach.

I guess the new approach works because so many kids these days are veterans of full day daycare or preschool, or parental "stimulation" of busy schedules. The new plan for K doesn't work though for all kids: despite him being bright and having had preschool we chose to have DS5 go to a private K that one might call "transitional", lots of play, it has structure but no academics. Even if he was emotionally capable of following strict directions all day I'm not sure 5 year old boys truly benefit from that. He will likely go to1st next year, and not do a standard K at all.

I want to compliment you for not having spent the first 4 or 5 years of your son's life in a tizzy over getting him prepped or ahead. The current emphasis on structured education for toddlers is kind of alarming, kids have grown up as healthy members of society for hundreds of generations without classes as soon as they can walk. And for that matter I doubt your ds is living in a vacuum or hasn't ever played with kids before. It just sounds like you have had a more family or community oriented lifestyle.

It is too bad his first experience with school resulted in him getting booted. One doesn't want him to get the idea this was his fault or that school itself is overly challenging. Nevertheless in a way getting booted is a gift to him. It gives him a year to gain confidence interacting with same age kids and gain skills at being independent. You don't want the school keeping him and him being known as a difficult or whiny kid.

Your idea to take him to the gym is great! Especially if the same group of kids is there at the same time you go each time, that's a good start. If he hasn't interacted with that age group much then it may take longer than a month for him to start having interactions and I wouldn't stop taking him just because he hasn't played with them. On the other hand if it's different kids every time then it's more like going to the park than school.

I agree with the others who recommended a preschool experience. It's the closest thing to elementary school, and yet still usually fun. It's hard to get the teacher led, no parent experience in other ways.

What we are doing with my son is trying to make sure we don't have big holes in the K curriculum so that going to first next year is an option should he be emotionally and socially ready for it. I kind of think a kid who can "do" modern K can also manage well in first, it's more the subject content that is different. For my ds that means learning to write well. If you want to keep a skip to first an option for next year then look into the specifics of your school district's curriculum and fill in the holes at home. There's no need for flash cards as there are all sorts of fun games, websites, etc that teaches this level of stuff. Check out www.starfall.com for reading. Or phone/tablet educational apps.

But having said that, there is as someone else pointed out no reason to want him in with older kids longterm, unless that's where he'd prefer to be.

If you aren't familiar with red shirting, look it up. It may well be that the teacher of his K class was comparing him to children with an average age of closer to 6 than 5, an occasional kid is even 7. If he goes to K "on schedule" next year some of his classmates will still be substantially older, the degree depends on your region.

Polly

OMG Polly thanks so much "red shirting" I didn't realize it had a name but yes most 80% of the kids in his class were already 6 their parents had deliberately held them out. I was very frustrated that they didn't have another class with more younger kids he could try.

Thanks so much for the response. Any you are right its not like he has never played with another kid his age he has even been in groups but he tires of them and goes in with the adults.

I was really worried about down the line him getting bored because he is so smart but I guess if everyone else is technically his age equivalent because they waited perhaps it will even out.

Thanks for the post

I'm sorry it went so poorly - it doesn't sound like the school is giving you any support. How unfortunate. Personally, I think some of the comments here are really harsh - I'm guessing he hasn't been locked in a closet for the past five years. But, these days, it really is unusual for kids not to have gone to preschool, taken 22 park district classes, and have 6 scheduled playdates a week. However, if you think back to the past, many many kids learned to entertain themselves when they were younger, lived in more isolated areas so they didn't have the constant playdates, and never took a class or joined an organized sport before school. I'm not saying that it was better then, but, come on - your son is 5! And the behaviors that he exhibits could VERY well be part of his giftedness, or because he's shy, or because he has an anxiety issue... don't assume that you somehow did something wrong and that's what is causing these problems.
Personally, I would lay off the flashcards. After all, next year when he makes the cut off, the school won't have the option of kicking him out after a measly few-days trial (if I am understanding correctly that he was there on a somewhat "trial" basis due to his age). It sounds like he really doesn't need them anyway, it's more a matter of him not wanting to do them than it is a matter of them being too hard for him.
I have a friend who had a rather shy, quiet kid who started K a few days before he turned 6. He eventually skipped 2nd grade and is now thriving in a 6th grade gifted classroom. It took a few years for the school to really catch on to how bright this kid was because he was fairly quiet in the classroom. Your son might well need a skip a few years down the road, or differentiated work, etc..
My oldest never went to preschool either and she skipped first grade (late Aug birthday, so already young) and thrived. She also got along better with adults for the most part, but that lasted all the way through school and wasn't really about her not being socialized early (IMHO)- it was about her personality and her giftedness. She had no patience for silly kindy games and activities and found things like reciting letters when she was reading fluently BORING!
Another thing to keep in mind is that your son may just LIKE playing alone. I honestly think that if he wanted lots of interaction he'd be seeking it out. My ds12 has always wanted "alone" time and really enjoys his own company (just like dh). Ds10 seeks out company ALL the time - he wants to talk to us, play us a song, sing for us, play a game with us, show us a drawing, etc... Even when we say we can't pay attention to him right then, he'll be back in three minutes, forgetting what we said. So, rather than assuming that he can't interact because he's been playing alone in a corner, ignored, I immediately thought that maybe he preferred quiet, alone play and didn't like the loud, adult-directed, chaotic atmosphere of a kindy room (needless to say, ds12 didn't love it and ds10 could have moved in there 24/7 - woohooo - playmates all day long!).
Anyway, I mostly wanted to offer a cyber-hug and some sympathy... sounds like a stressful and frustrating start to kindy. Hang in there and I hope next year goes much more smoothly!!

Only children were exceptionally rare. Large families were the norm. Playdates are unnecessary when there are a number and variety of immediately available playmates within the nuclear family.

you're right he hasn't been locked in a closet and does get time every weekend with other children when he goes to his dads but he does prefer to be more alone. I stopped the flash cards about a week or so ago and wouldn't you know it the little terd is teaching himself to read. He points out words and sounds them out all on his own. I'm just not going to keep worrying about all of this it is only kindergarten for goodness sake! Its not like I think he is going to be permanently damaged by either going to k this year or next. I think its more stress worrying about it than its worth. Thank you to everyone who has responded.

I'm so glad you've been able to come to peace with it. You're right, it's just kindergarten and I'm glad you are not going to stress about it anymore. He might also have been picking up on that stress.

I'm not surprised he's teaching himself to read - he just couldn't do it when he was working so hard to fit in at school.

Now, can I lock mine in that closet???

HAHAHAHA!