Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion "stuck" in a book series

I realize this isn't the end of the world, but DD8 is obsessively reading and rereading the books in the Warriors/Seekers series by Erin Hunter and almost nothing else. These books are definitely below where she can read, although not vastly below it. I wouldn't think was a big deal except that at school, for some reason, this year's teacher seems to be putting low-level books on the free reading shelf (much easier than her 2nd-grade teacher's picks...???) and the books they are reading in class together are also easier than last year (again, ?) So I don't think there's any growth to speak of happening in terms of reading for her. This is all she read all summer as well, for the most part.

I don't like to make a big deal, or any deal at all, out of reading matter. So I'm not, other than attempting to strew other books in her path (these generally don't get read). Any thoughts, though? Perhaps some suggestions of similar books that would be a bit more challenging? I don't really know what is going on with the school thing. It seems like maybe this year is "about" math whereas last year they were doing more advanced in-class reading and writing. (It may be the class make-up. I know they pretested. She is at a gifted magnet.)

ETA: This happened to us once before when DD was in K and obsessed with, agh, Rainbow Fairies. She read every single one (70+). She hasn't managed to read every single Hunter book yet because there are a ton and they're very popular, but it won't be long. However, that was her only other series obsession.

I would just make sure she gets every. single. Warriors book out there. Once she's read them all, she will be able to let it rest.
She sounds like someone with good follow through!

My DD10 will happily reread Warriors books, so reading them all won't "fix" the problem. Warriors books have complicated, interwoven stories with some interesting allusions requiring making inferences. While not my kind of literature, I don't see a problem with them.

We stopped worrying about DD reading "at her level" vs "below her level" long ago, and starting thinking about loving reading. Growing as a reader is not a linear process once the basics are mastered.

I'm currently rereading Harry Potter. It's definitely below my level, but I'm certainly enjoying it.

I was a big re-reader as a kid. Seems to have done me little harm in the scheme of things.

Keeping other material handy is a good idea. And maybe cultivating a relationship with a children's librarian who can identify closely related books to jump off into?

DeeDee

I'm in the same boat with my two because they're both reading below-level stuff at the moment. LOL I also remember being the child in this scenario and having teachers try and encourage me to read harder books.

I've let it go, because...

1) no phase lasts forever
2) they're fostering a love of books
3) it's not just about reading level, but also about personal interest and connection to the content (this is directly from my experience)

and (drum roll)

4) they're still reinforcing spelling and some grammar skills, even if it's below level.

For instance, DD9 (math kid ) recently got 100% on a class spelling test, including challenge words that the teacher surprised them with.

So for now I'm letting them read what they want...

DD7 is reading chapter books with confidence, and yet still she reaches for Berenstain Bears for stretches at a time. I don't worry about it. Kids her age are still drawn to repetition and familiarity. It's a normal part of the development process. As long as she embraces novelty every once in a while, she'll be fine.

I reread books all the time as a kid. I just made emotional connections to certain characters (To Kill a Mockingbird, "advanced" Judy Blume books, Anne of Green Gables series, Sweet Valley High - ahem - wait).

What about introducing her to short stories? There are so many wonderful classics written at higher levels of reading which require more insight into metaphor, foreshadowing, complex character motivation. The best part is they are snippets of a challenge vs sn entire novel. Maybe that could be an afterschooling project?

My ds13 always reread books and still does. I doubt there is a book he has read only once. He has been rereading Harry Potter for 6 years. He has often reads books below his level. It becomes increasingly difficult to find challenging books as they get older, if not impossible. I really cant find challenging books for him anymore. I tend to let it be for the most part as well. We did pushed him to read novels after he spend a couple years only wanting nonfiction books. We didn't take away the Nonfiction books but added the novels into his mix. My dd6 is in the middle of her Rainbow Fairies book craze. Oh yay! (Oozing sarcasm):) She will also go grab a ridiculously below her level Biscuit book from time to time. I agree it fosters their love of reading. I would found the more I suggest books the more they lose interest in what I'm suggesting. I tend to leave the books I want them to read lying around They eventually pick them up.

Funny you say that - I had this exact conversation with a librarian at our local library. She was explaining where on there website to look for other authors for similar styles to my kids' preferences. I haven't done it yet but intend to.

Don't get me wrong--I am definitely not forbidding her from reading them. It's just, man, it's been months. Like, maybe 5 months. I haven't read any of the books, though I know it's quite an elaborate world and that DD is really into all the characters and subplots and so on.


I guess I am not favorably impressed by the fact that "Erin Hunter" is a pen name/amalgam (there are 4 authors, IIRC...it's a bit of a factory). Maybe I'm not giving the books enough credit. I think if she were obsessing over Harry POtter I would be less bothered. Okay, I'm a bit of a snob. (DD doesn't know I think this about the books.)

Like I say, I guess it's only bugging me because school is clearly not doing much for her on this front this year. All right, maybe my real problem is dissatisfaction with that curriculum, come to think of it. We have enough other issues going on that I don't particularly want to address that, though. It's a shame; I was very pleased with how reading/writing were handled last year.

DD9 has gone through the Harry Potter books at least a dozen times. She also went through a Rainbow Fairies obsession and one other series that I can't remember at the moment.

DD11 hasn't read a book at her level in years, mostly because those books just aren't as interesting to her. She enjoys young adult books like Percy Jackson or the Ranger's Apprentice (so do I, for that matter), even though they are well below her reading level. We've also focused on the love of reading rather than on making sure she reads challenging material.

LOL--yes, when she sets her mind on something, you'd better get out of the way.

Thanks, this is helpful. I guess I want to be reassured that to some extent this is normal and to be expected. I know there is going to be an interest level plateau.

DS does this endless repetition thing too. (He likes the Seeker series, but actually it's not one that's gone on the endless repetition list.) Like others, I mostly don't worry about it (but I can see that I might if he were not being challenged at school). I do strew books I think he might like, and have been known to do things like including something new as one of a small number of books he's taking on a trip away, when I know he's going to be more open to it because he's going at some point to have just read everything else he has with him. The other thing that got him into new things was family reading aloud: we read The Lord of the Rings aloud, and started on The Silmarillion (only started, because then there was a train journey in which he grabbed it off us and read the rest of it himself) so now those are the current main read and reread books. If there's something you like enough to read it aloud that you think she'd like and that would be up a level, you might try that.

I haven't read the Seeker series that DS likes myself, so I don't know whether any of these are similar, but things he's enjoyed lately, in case any of these seem likely, include:
- Cressida Cowell's dragon series (new one just out: they get older through the series, as it were)
- Harry Potter of course
- Diana Wynne Jones' Chrestomanci series
- the Percy Jackson books
- Arthur Ransome's Swallows and Amazons series
- Agatha Christie's Poirot stories
- Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, etc.

She won't listen to books read aloud--"Too slow!" (I feel the same way myself, actually.) She'll make an exception for book on tape in the car, though...but I don't know that something at a "bump up" level for her could really work for DS4.

I think she would like Tolkien, and is probably ready for at least the Hobbit. (One issue is the lack of significant female characters--she is VERY attuned to that. She won't read Harry Potter for this reason, among others. "It's all about a boy!") I can't decide if I should take her to the movie when it comes out or not.

Cressida Crowell and Diana Wynne Jones--how are they for female characters? Is it knights and dragons? (She's not into that.)

You are not alone with the Warriors series. Apparently, I'll have two warrior cats in my household for Halloween this year.

I've been doing a lot of internet searching for "If you liked the Warrior Series". Here are some of the suggestions:

http://www.downersgrovelibrary.org/kids/books/booklists/erin_hunter.php

http://www.librarypoint.org/bm_the_warriors

http://read.poudrelibraries.org/kids/z155.html

What does she like about the books? Is it that they are about animals? Other worlds? Female protagonists? That might help guide what other books you can suggest.

Ummm... my DD was completely obsessed by those darned books from the time she was six until...



well, it peaked at 7-9yo.

She *would* read other stuff, but I'm guessing that she has re-read each and every one of those Warriors books (well, the extant ones at the time, anyway) at least seven to ten times.

I felt exactly the same way that you do about them, fwiw. Oddly, somehow, it bothered me less when she turned that "collector" mentality toward Nancy Drew... which is just as formulaic and production oriented.

Yes, this too shall pass. She has had no real interest in them for about two years at this point. It was a very long five years, though.

DD's draw from the books was that it was: a) about CATS (she loves cats), b) high fantasy but realistic, c) female-oriented but without being girly/princessy or "sporty" d) immersive, like an RPG world, and e) action-driven but with a LOT of social complexity to accompany that action.

In short, it was like James Bond but for 7-12yo girls.

Our answer to this was to provide a LOT of afterschooling in literature selections. At least that way this wasn't all she was reading, even if it was a huge component of her self-selected literature at the time.

It doesn't seem to have harmed her any, if that helps. LOL.

I can answer better for Cressida Cowell. There are three main characters (Hiccup, Fishlegs and Camicaze) of whom one (Camicaze) is female (and a real character). The main villain is female; most, but not all, of the minor characters are male. Stereotypes are often defied. Definitely no knights. It's a fictionalised Viking archipelago in which dragons live with humans as hunting and riding dragons - something of a nod to Anne Maccaffery's Pern, perhaps, but with a very different tone. Without giving too much away, the relationship between humans and dragons is what drives the story arc. I think the author's heart is in the right place when it comes to gender (we went to a book festival event she did, and I'm going on that as well as on the books I suppose), *but* she quite explicitly set out to write the books that her little brother would have liked to read, she says. So, dunno. Give DD one and see what she thinks, maybe.

Wynne Jones: I know much less, because although I've skimmed a couple I haven't read with so much attention. My impression is that they might actually be more problematic; they have an old-fashioned feel. Wikipedia page here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chrestomanci

ColinsMum: If by "the Seeker series" you mean The Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind, just be aware that it's a not-at-all-veiled political commentary, in a very hit-you-over-the-head-with-it kind of way. My DW quit reading it when it got too preachy. Okay, communism = bad, McCarthy was right, we get it, now please get on with the story.

I was sad to see the TV version go away so quickly.

Oooh, thanks! She has read some of those--Swordbird, Silverwing, Cats of Roxville Station--but there are plenty we don't know.

No, I mean the one that was mentioned in line 2 of the OP of this thread!

Dude--no no, it's another Seeker series, by the same author as the Warriors series we're discussing.


Well, I do believe you are hitting the nail on the head here, especially with c--DD is ever in search of C, and it's elusive.


*faints dead away*

You might laugh at a conversation we had yesterday in the grocery store parking lot. There was a stray cat, and DD immediately set in to wondering what clan it was in (probably Bloodclan) and its recent doings (she knows she's pretending....I think...mostly). DH and I were cracking ourselves up in the front seat. "Actually, I think it's in Groceryclan. Down the street, of course, we have WalmartClan."

Yeah-- DD has always had a real thing for personification of animals. I blame John Ritter. (Clifford, the Big Red Dog) Well, okay, so "blame" here is probably a little harsh. LOL.

Mistmantle, the Guardians of Gahoole, and the Redwall books (but less so, since again those are somewhat lacking in the powerful female protagonist angle) have also been popular with her at various points.

Watership Down...

The Golden Cat...

Well. You get the idea.


ultramarina, we made up "dirtbag" clan in self-defense at one point.

UM, my ds doesn't re-read, but he gets very into series (he loved the Warriors, btw, eons ago)... and used to get obsessed and think he didn't want to read anything else at all until the next book in the series came out. There are a few other series he enjoyed around the same time he was into the Warriors, but I don't know if they'd work for your dd (Guardians of the Gahoole was one - and I know I didn't spell Gahoole correctly lol!). Anyway, the thing that helped us break ds out of his won't-pick-up-a-different book rut was when he joined a Battle-of-the-Books group at his school and *had* to read from the list of required books. The books weren't as complex or advanced or high-level as he was capable of reading, but they were books that were well-written and interesting for his age level. He would procrastinate starting on each book, but after a few pages was usually hooked.

I wouldn't worry too much about re-reading books - I doubt it does any more "harm" than playing the same game more than once (I don't think it does any harm at all really). I used to be obsessed with horse books when I was in 3rd grade, and I read a bunch that were easy-for-me-to-read as well as reading them over and over again and daydreamed quite a bit about the horses. There are a few other books (novels) I've re-read several times over the years because they were favorites of mine, and I've found something new and different each time I've read them, as well as found it interesting how my take on the stories changes as I get older and have different life experiences under my belt.

And... fwiw... my dd8 is currently obsessed with the Warriors. They are the only books she's checked out of her school library all year. So I'm looking at the responses here with a vested interest in hoping to find something else for my own dd - lol!

polarbear

Actually, I thought I'd mention another bonus of this series. Because it's not written at DD10's reading level, but instead written at a level understandable by any smart 9 year old, she got many of her peers to read the books as well last year. They played Warriors on the playground, and gave her a clear link between her imaginary/reading/g&t world to her world and peers at school.

Kinda going OT here, but it's interesting that most of us here are talking about girls really loving this series, and not boys. As I mentioned, my ds was *really* into it when he read it, and now that my dd8 is reading the series... I help her class during library time... so I get to hang out and see what the kids are reading etc... and she's the only girl in her class who's reading the series... but there are quite a few boys who are also reading them.

Don't know why I find that interesting!

polarbear

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE MISUNDERSTANDING!

Oh, yes-- DD has had several male friends who liked them too. (her current best friend, in fact, is a MG 16yo boy who was pretty much obsessed with them when he was younger, as well)

I think that they just-- among girls, that is-- disproportionately appeal to more androgynous/bright children who tend to reject typical gender stereotype-driven culture. Boys who don't like guns and superhero play, for example, and girls who aren't into pink and codependent princesses, seem to find animal personification a great alternative.

I think it's entirely possible that part of the appeal for female children in this particular context is about the social connection serving as a sort of secret club password. This was a significant means for my DD to establish who was most likely to be "friend" material for her and who wasn't. It still serves that way as a point of shared history, to some extent.

I don't see anything wrong with that, as adults do this sort of social sorting by interests all the time, too. We just automatically connect better with other people who have a shared reference frame and values.

In DD's class, she has been the only girl reading them, but there are quite a few boys into them. I suspect the "Warriors" name may be a turnoff? Although cats are female-identified. Actually, this IS a great series in the sense that it easily can appeal to both genders.

Another interesting sequelae to this kind of interest seems (well, okay-- anecdotally) to be an eventual interest in and participation in RPG gaming during preteen/teen years (and in some cases beyond).

In that case, I think that interest in this book series can serve as an early indicator that kids have that set of interests and innate needs (socially and intellectually).

ALL of my DD's RPG friends (and this is at least a couple dozen kids) were interested in these books to the point of obsession during elementary/middle school, and all of the friends that were so fixated on them back in the day (again, at least a dozen or so of them) are now playing RPG's both regularly and often mutliple platforms/characters. Both genders.

I don't know if there is a real causative connection. But there certainly seems to be a very strong correlation.

These kind of things also go into my box of "things that did not help my life at all" and are included in the box of "years of my life that I wish I could get back.""

What a great insight. You are absolutely describing my DD, who has verbally and specifically rejected gender stereotypes since she was tiny. Admittedly, some of this is probably my influence, but I have heard things come out of her mouth that I know for certain she didn't hear from me. Also, she is pining for a Warriors "club" and goes around asking other kids if they read the books. She's desperately trying to get her best male friend into them (no luck--he's a Harry Potter dude).

Now there's a question--is there a difference between Harry Potter kids and Warriors kids, or do they generally overlap? (DD won't read HP, partly due to resistance to the perceived male focus, partly due to fear of them being scary, partly due to being intentionally resistant to things she perceives as very popular. I think she'll eventually cave and will enjoy them, though I will discourage from reading past book 4 till she's a little older.)

I admit, I'm more than slightly wary of the RPG thing. DH and I are completely unfamiliar with that world but my impression is that it can be extremely addictive.

Just for reference, in case anybody thought about trying Goodkind's series, I think the rape/gory death/torture scenes would be much more problematic for the age range under consideration than the politics (and I am currently standing in front of the shelf holding volumes 1-4 of the series).

I got lost on the reading level requirement, but after spending all of last year labeling all the children books in the house by AR/lexile levels it turns out that interest trumps numbers (and that runs both ways). I also probably haven't read a single book at my reading level since I left college, except maybe that book I had to read for an American history class last year. I like to think I am still evolving as a reader.

Strong female protagonists, albeit usually in male-dominated fantasy settings (so that there is a lot about girls proving their value -- your daughter might want something past that?): anything by Tamora Pierce.

In a completely different vein, but sometimes the way to break through a series addiction (and I am a big re-reader, so I understand the pull) is to switch to something completely different, Pratchett's Discworld, starting with the witches books. There is a later sub-sub-thread with a younger witch which might be more appealing to a younger child than the first few Witches books (although the first, Equal Rites, is about a young girl who is told she cannot be a wizard).

Based on my experiences, it sucks up time and provides no benefit.

So, I put it in the same box as computer games and sci-fi/fantasy books.

I am in agreement that it is nothing to worry about. I was Nancy Drew and Trixie Belden obsessed as a kid, yet am very well read now. (I even finished the Proust years ago)

Sometimes I have the same worry about DD8, she did read Rainbow Fairies back when, though she hated Harry Potter this summer. But then finds something like Dear Diary she won't put down. As long as she keeps reading.

Individual results will vary. All things in moderation... including moderation.

For me, those activities sucked up a lot of time during phases of my life where I had a lot of time that already sucked.

Yes, if there's really nothing better to do then you aren't losing anything because there's nothing to lose.

The series I obsessively reread were the L. M. Montgomery books--although they actually are a bit pulpy in bits, they're pretty high quality. I was also not a fantasy or sci-fi kid, though I logged some time with Hitchhiker's Guide (so funny), Susan Cooper (wish I could get DD to read these!) and Tolkien. DH also had no interest in this stuff at all. So DD may be in uncharted territory if this is where her interest goes, although my brother is a huge Tolkien nerd.

She will love Watership Down, I'm 100% sure. But it's dark and sad in places, IIRC. I don't know if she's ready.

I'm so happy that my DS's Warriors phase was short-lived. I read part of the first one, and thought it was pretty good, then we couldn't get the books in order at the library so got maybe the 4th one? And it was just horribly written. I avoided that one at bedtime when we normally read a chapter aloud to DS (though now we've hit the "you read too slowly" phase so he reads to himself).

I've got a great next series for you to try, with a strong female lead, not girly in the least: Leviathan steampunk series by Scott Westerfeld. I started reading that aloud to DS8 when he had stopped reading for a bit, and it got him hooked. He's now finishing Westerfeld's Uglies series, which kids who liked the Hunger Games will probably like. [ETA: These are both YA series, but very tame and not about romance- perhaps one innocent kiss per book.]

ETA: I don't think there's any problem with re-reading books (though I think the only books I've ever re-read were LOTR). But it's kind of fun to seek out new series too. Good luck!

Oh, I obsessively read Susan Cooper, Tolkein and Madeleine L'Engle. I just wasn't that into sci fi, though. Never really 'got' the Hitchhiker's Guide (published in my teens-- I liked the radio play, just not the books), which my DD is obsessive about. I did not do much RPG as a teen. I can't say that my activities would necessarily count as 'productive' during those years, either, and in retrospect I think that RPG would have been an infinitely better/safer/more appropriate activity. :ahem: So considering some of the alternatives, there are worse things.

DD's version of fantasy literature is really distinct from mine, though we both like the genre a lot. Mine is time-slip memes and paranormal and hers is complete alternate worlds and sentient animals. By the way-- Doctor Who is a lurking obsession for pretty much anyone with this set of interests. Just noting that.

High fantasy lit is pretty sparse territory with kids until they are about 14yo; lots of dark stuff, lots of sexual content once you stray from Tolkein, Madeleine L'Engle (which is really more sci-fi, IMO), the obvious Harry Potter, and Susan Cooper.

Harry Potter is a VERY big deal at our house, so yes, I think that there is often a lot of overlap. I think that Hermione really sucks in GT girls once they see the first movie, but not always. DD is Fluer Delacour. All my friends say so. Hagrid's line in HP IV about her not being just some "fairy princess" just cracks me up. INDEED.

Some books that should grab kids just... don't. For whatever reason, or no particular reason at all. My DD, for example, should have really been obsessed by Redwall. Her response to it was instead, "Meh." Nothing else had the immersive, interactive play value of the Warriors books. Something about them is broadly appealing and very approachable for kids.

My DD did not read Watership Down until she was about ten, ultramarina. I, too, felt that the book would have exceeded her emotional readiness until then. She also didn't read Jonothan Livingston Seagull until about that time.

My older one insisted on reading all 46 Magic Treehouse books, in order, when he was in first grade. so we bought them online and he read them all. He's read those Rick Riordan books, Percy Jackson, in third grade, and now he's reading other things that he's written, now that he is in 4th grade (they are listed as being 6th-8th grade level).
Perhaps fortunately, my now second grader has refused to read the Magic Treehouse! So he's reading some Bailey School Kids, which are at a 4.5 grade level.
I agree that esp. younger kids like the repetition. My older one really got alot of confidence out of reading all of those books.

I loved that book when I was a kid. I read it several times

I got my DS hooked on Warriors when he was in first grade. He's now in third and is just this week re-reading the Super Editions. I also reached a point where I was desperate to find a replacement, and I got all excited when our librarians posted a "If you like Warriors, you'll like..." note in the Erin Hunter section of our library, but none of those other books stuck like Warriors has. DS and his male friends who are into the series all like cats, so that's part of it, but there's also something about the Clans that appeals to boys. DS talks about the different clans the way he talks about different Pokemon or Skylander "types." At this point, I figure, as long as it's interesting to him, he must be getting something out of it.

Done that!

If your dd's all about the female characters, Shannon Hale is a good choice. And "Alex and the Ironic Gentleman" by Adrienne Kress was a favorite here (Alex is a girl, ftr).
Dd14 loved Warriors, was bored by Redwall. Tolkein is jokingly referred to here as "Walkin', walkin'", because it seems like that's all they ever do. She's currently into Shakespeare, go figure.
And fwiw, ds14 spent a good bit of the summer playing World of Warcraft in between online math classes, music lessons and band camp (yes, he is that big a geek). He hasn't touched his account since school started and suggested yesterday I delete it. While RPGs can be a big time-suck, so can anything, if you're bored enough. Like...mmm...internet message boards.

Yes, but you generally don't skip all of your classes and stay up for 24 hours in a row only to crash the next day because of internet message boards.

Computer games/RPG games are excellent reality avoidance tools if you don't like reality.

Eh. My experience has been that addictive personalities will find an addiction wherever it's available. And if you want to see reality avoidance via internet forums, just hit the average "Moms of Toddlers" boards.