Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school putting a gifted child into Special Ed preschool?

Slightly off topic, but I was wondering since you said your 2 year old has sensory issues, is he in OT as well? I'm sure you know since you already have one in OT , but the younger they start, the better the results because habits are less ingrained into them. And if they went at the same time it would be a nice break for you rather than worrying about keeping him entertained. Just a thought.

My 2 year old is in OT for sensory and feeding issues and has made huge improvements. Her therapist keeps saying that it is good we got her in so young because if they don't start until school age, when issues are usually identified, they're already too old for therapy to be extremely effective.

Following Happy Chef's tangent, Mk: if you get a diagnosis for the 4-year-old, or maybe even if you don't, you might consider having the 2-year-old evaluated as well. Not wanting other people within 10 feet is pretty extreme.

It sounds like you are working darned hard as a parent trying to keep things together for your kids, and if there's something diagnosable going on it is so much easier to know at age 2 than at age 5 or 7, because that way you can get more early intervention help that makes it easier over the long haul.

Hang in there.
DeeDee

ETA: passing along one of the nicest things someone said to me at a dark hour: "Therapy works." It's true.

yes, the younger one gets OT as well but at home through Early Intervention so we don't have to go out for that. Once he's out out of EI when he turns 3 we could possibly look for outside therapy for him as well in the same place, which would solve the problem. ... another problem is when my younger one is getting his OT, ST and DT at home ... keeping DS4 away from DS2 and the therapist is next to impossible. He's been so used to that all appointments used to be for him that he just doesn't want to understand that sometimes his brother needs an alone time with people! lol

That said, I doubt we'll continue with therapies for the younger one. While I'm sure they'll be recommended on a continuous basis for the future, I know I can work on the sensory issues at home (doing that every day anyways) and the reasons he has ST and DT at this point I'm pretty sure is more of a misdiagnosis because he's developing very asynchronously. Just 4 months ago we were quite concerned with Asperger's / Autism spectrum but now it's becoming more and more obvious he's far from that.

I do agree that starting any therapy as early as possible is crucial ... but I also think it's all in the hands of the parents. If the parent recognizes the problem and has all the tools needed to work on it, than OT might become just another appointment that we have to make and overextends our schedule ... not sure if that makes sense?

Basically after spending almost 4 years in therapy, I don't really see DS4 (and even DS2 lately) making that much progress due to therapy but rather due to outgrowing a lot of the issues with age (while developing new ones) but fortunately for us, pretty much all problems DS4 has are identical to what I went through as a child so I can identify with him knowing ways of getting over those bumps that come and go.

It's also really important to have therapists who realize your child not only has whatever diagnosis but if they are gifted, they work differently from most kids and may need a different approach.

I'm just rambling here ... but maybe some other parents here who's children went through various therapies can identify with me? ... looking back at my childhood ... I don't wish I received any kind of therapy ... what I do regret is that nobody knew what SPD was back then and that I was looked at as the weird / lazy / kid with too many excuses by my family and everyone else and they had no idea what was going on in my mind. When I tried to explain, they wouldn't understand. So I'm just glad I can spare my kids having to go through any of that!

The issue with kids being around DS2 is a fairly new thing (last 3 months or so) ... It started around the time when his brain kicked in at high gear and he started doing all his crazy non-2 year old things. His Developmental therapist came along with us to a kids playroom / cafe we go to where his problem with kids seems to be most obvious and as we watched him, we both agreed that it's most likely because having these kids around is too much of a distraction for him. They interrupt his line of thought! lol ... He's usually very much into what he's doing (be it a puzzle, some toy, etc.), really focused on it and if they get near him, he turns into this "mad professor". He's still lacking in speech so isn't able to tell the kids to leave him alone and that's why he's probably more aggressive right now.

Mk, I'll just share briefly what happened to us with DS10 (2E, Asperger's). He was extremely difficult to parent, had a very difficult time participating appropriately in preschool and kindergarten, all the while showing tremendously precocious and unusual talents and interests. We sought help but were told that he was just gifted: the possibility of autism spectrum disorder was ignored, even though he was a classic case, because very real symptoms were being excused as part of his giftedness.

We were not able to start appropriate therapies until he was almost 6, because for years we couldn't get anyone to see what was really there. I regret those years: they were hard on us and we could have used them better if we had known what was going on.

The party line among gifted communities is that gifted kids can be overdiagnosed with things like Asperger's and ADHD, but in my experience they can also be underdiagnosed due to their giftedness, and that is in some ways worse, because the child does not get timely help. It's much harder to recoup skills at age 8 than at age 3 or 5.

That's not at all to say that this is what's going on with your kids, but just to say that this happens sometimes, even when parents are paying attention.
DeeDee

DeeDee ... I have been pushing for Asperger's evaluation for DS4 for 2.5 years now and all the therapists would always blow it off as SPD ... but I KNOW that's not it. He does have a really bad SPD but there's more to it and I need to know what. But I feel like even the Psychiatrist we've been seeing the last two weeks is very puzzled by him. He shows a lot of Asperger's traits but not always. He shows a lot of ADHD traits ... but again, not always. He gets a lot of small and bigger meltdowns but in most cases I can reason with him to snap him out of them.

I just feel like all the therapists have been doing with him is throwing different therapies at him to see if anything will work. I feel like that's not what we should be doing if we don't really know what causes it? If the Psychiatrist comes up with some sort of diagnoses (or rules them out) ... at least we can adjust the therapy plan based on that and not just experiment because he doesn't have the textbook responses to therapy. He LOVES to be out anywhere and just explore ... park, beach, store ... just ANYTHING new to him so sometimes I think why waste time at the therapist office when we can be out giving him the stimulation he needs? Why try to hold him back teaching him to sit still when maybe running as fast as he can is what he TRULY needs?

As for the 2-year old ... if you didn't know him your FIRST thought looking at him for 5 minutes would be "this child is Autistic" ...as in, not just mildly on the spectrum but probably moderate. He'll either sit somewhere in a corner play with something and pay zero attention to anything and anyone (if at home or other very familiar place) or you may see him spinning for minutes listening to music that catches his attention. That and speech delay were major red flags why I got him evaluated through Early Intervention. He's on the 6 months waiting list for the Psychiatrist eval as well but won't have the appointment till sometime in January. ... but then when you watch him closely, you realize he's not "out" or zoomed out ... he's just doing something that really caught his attention and wants to finish it. The spinning used to freak me out a little (he started doing that when he started walking) ... he'd spin, never lose balance, not once. He'd stop and then just walk away. We were thinking it was probably a sensory issue where he liked the sensation of how it felt and the visual part. But I've noticed he has a great ear for music and as I watched him couple times he's spinning and "analyzing" the music ... not sure it's the right word. I don't know how to explain it. He's humming the tones with a slight delay (especially when it's a new melody for him) very focused on getting it right and the last couple of days he's spinning and sometimes conducting with his arms at the same time. I was fascinated by it when I saw him do that. Imagine a orchestra conductor conducting with his right hand but in a 2-year old's body! lol ... the music stops and he immediately snaps out of it. But he only does these things when he feels like it. When you come to our house another time, you'll see a possibly ADHD little boy that's into everything, giggles at everything and wants you to play with him and do goofy things. it's really hard to explain but while at first sight he seems to be more "off" then DS4, we're a lot less concerned with his issues than our older one's. Not saying that won't change but only time will tell.

We didn't get good answers on DS until we went to the autism center of a major children's hospital, where they had seen enough kids on spectrum that they were able to figure out DS. Because the gifted ones often don't present with the standard-issue set of symptoms, or present the standard symptoms in nonstandard ways, it can be hard for a general psych to get a handle on.


Not to scare you, but mine is like that too. We spent a lot of time out of the house when he was little because his play skills were so poor, he just did not do as well at home, and he loved being in museums and gardens and places where he could learn things constantly at his pace.

The only problem is that school (and eventually, work) are not like that-- you don't GET constant stimulation (even in an awesome job or an awesome school, there are quite a few down moments), and you have to learn to manage and occupy yourself in those environments too.

I realized kind of late how much I was compensating for DS's missing skills in how I was running the family.


None of what you wrote rules out autism (and the spinning makes me suspicious)-- it just says to me that there's a lot of interesting stuff going on inside that kid. I'm glad you are investigating.

You sound like a very caring and on top of it parent.

DeeDee

master of none - last year when DS4 aged out of Early Intervention I did get him OT but denied anything else. He was supposed to get speech therapy through the school district but after the nightmare that ST was for him in EI I wasn't going to put us through that again. It wasn't just the therapist because he had a two different ones but it was the way ST is done that made his sensory problems even worse and while he got ST one day, he was impossible to deal with for another day or two. ... one of those times when I realized that less is more! I'm really at a point where I look at the therapy sessions as one hour block where I don't have to be the one answering all the questions and tending to all the needs. DS4 looks at it as his play dates and is happy. If I see he doesn't like it, I'm pulling him out. Which is what will most likely happen with his PT (really it's more like extra OT since it's mainly therapeutic play). The therapist is really knowledgeable and everyone things she's THE best, which she might be ... just not for my son. She is older, doesn't remember much and I think DS4 is extremely bored with her (unlike his main OT he's had for the last 12 months). This PT forgets what she did with him the week before (NOT a good thing with my son who remembers all they've ever done at ALL sessions! lol) ... does the therapy at a small 10 x 10 room with dimmed lights (while he needs to run ... can't really ask him to sit still on a couch for 60 minutes) ... so, overall I'm just getting really irritated and am trying to find a polite way to say we're done with that one! lol I'm thinking if I take him to a bounce gym where he can jump for 2 hours he'll get more PT from that than anything else

... on a side note. I have actually been considering going back to school to get an OT or ST degree (because I am really interested in the topic and because I see a lack of therapists who can think outside the box and not think that all children will respond to the mainstream therapies the same way) ... but having two business degrees, I would pretty much have to start from the very beginning and neither of these degrees can be done online, which is a huge deal breaker for me

DeeDee ... thanks for the tip about the Autism center! I am finding a lot more useful information about all of this here on this board than any doctor or therapist has ever been able to give me!

The Psychiatrist we're seeing is at the Children's hospital in Chicago but it's only an intern since seeing a REAL specialist would take even longer. But at this point I was willing to have just about anyone do a basic eval rather than wait any longer. Depending on what she comes up with the next time we see her, I might be pushing for more or will want a re-evaluation done in a few months because he's changes so much in very short intervals. One of the biggest ... well, THE biggest issue we have is sleep. DS4 was always horrible sleeper (I mentioned to his OT when he was close to 2 that he spends 2-4hours in his crib jumping up and down every night trying to get himself to sleep and she said it was all sensory ... I do NOT buy into that) ...his sleep got better last fall for about 3 months and since December it was all downhill. We went through couple months of him being up past 3am, sleeping 4hrs a day and when he'd fall asleep at a normal time around 8-9pm he'd be up two hours later and stay up all night! Pediatrician couldn't figure out anything other than along the lines of "wouldn't want to be you" ... we tried Melatonin, which didn't work at all, tried Hydroxyzine, which helped a little but not much (he was able to fall asleep around midnight instead of 3am) and he started getting very irritable so had to take him off of that. Then I tried Melatonin again 4 weeks ago and surprisingly it's working! ... for now! When I tried not giving it to him, he was up all night, when I tried lowering the dose, he woke up at 2am and was up till 10pm when he finally crashed. So, really the main reason for contacting the Psychiatrist was the sleep issues because it throws off everything and everyone in the house.

And now DS2 is starting to have sleep problems too! He's been up till 2am most nights the last 7 days! Went from needing 12-13hrs of sleep to needing about 8 maximum.

which brings me back to my original question about the pre-school. If DS4 goes back to his crazy sleep/no sleep ways, he'll be impossible to wake up in the morning for school. How do you wake up a child that was up all day and all night and finally crashed at 5am for school at 7am? (I have tried all kinds of routines, removing toys, rearranging room, painting room different colors ... just about everything there is to regulate one's sleep and none of that worked so thankful for Melatonin while it's working at the moment!)

MK13, you've already received great advice, and I don't have much to add - but here are a few thoughts for you:

* Re the SPED preschool - chances are there are kids in the program who are all over the ability map - I wouldn't automatically assume your ds will be the only intellectually gifted child in the program. It may sound counterintuitive, but sometimes in our school district in the very early preschool and school years gifted kids on the spectrum or with behavioral/social challenges are identified as gifted earlier than NT kids simply because they go through the SPED eligibility process which usually includes ability testing.

* As the parent of an EG kiddo who is also 2e (not ASD, other types of challenges) - when he was very little it was basically a default reaction for my dh and I to think that the areas where he wasn't exactly typically developing were due to being a high-IQ kid. There was no doubt he was really bright - when he talked. So when he didn't do other things on the same schedule as most kids do we just figured he was a quirky smart kid. Later on when he wasn't producing work at school we assumed he was bored. We thought he didn't want to write because he was a perfectionist. We knew all the long lists of traits of highly gifted kids and it was easy to find something that explained everything on them so we never thought twice about it - until he almost imploded emotionally in 2nd grade because he'd been struggling so long with his undiagnosed disability and he'd reached the point in school where he could no longer compensate for it.

* I don't know if you have one in your area, but where we live autism evals/diagnosis are most frequently done by a developmental pediatrician (here the dr is affiliated with a children's hospital).

* We've had varying success with the different therapies our kids have gone through - and for sure, if you're in a situation where an individual therapist just isn't a good fit, I'd try to change to a different therapist.

* What your children need now or will benefit from now in therapy may change over the years as they grow. My dd10 is a prime example of this.. I started to write her story out but it was going to be *way* too long! The brief version is: she went through multiple types of therapies at different times, and they all helped incrementally. In her case vision therapy made the biggest difference in her life, but the therapies she'd been through prior to that (sensory OT, listening therapy) were still things I would have taken her through again even though part of what they were trying to address was at least partly due to undiagnosed vision challenges.

* Dealing with so many therapy appointments and two children who have challenges is beyond exhausting. FWIW, for all it may be exhausting now, I suspect you'll be glad several years down the road that you actively sought out all the help while they were young - it may not be obvious now but it *will* make a huge difference in their lives, and it will make your life easier *eventually* once they are farther along in school.

* Last thought re sleeping at night - does your dr think there's any possibility that they may have chronic upset stomachs or is there possibly some kind of physical sensation that causes discomfort when they lay down (reflux etc?).

* And (I promise!) my last thought - always trust your instincts

Best wishes,

polarbear