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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,007
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I'm going to take a crack at this Self-Awareness thingy from Zen Scanner's link to see if I can answer it in the style of an Ivy League Automata:
"Before you begin the college planning and preparation process, you will need to gather some basic information about yourself:
What types of subjects, activities, and jobs do you like? Which ones you do not like?
Answer: "I like any subject, activity, or job that will help me get into Harvard. I don't like whatever Harvard doesn't like. My parents make these decisions for me."
Which skills and abilities do you possess?
Answer: "I am very good at doing activities that are important to get me into Harvard."
What do you believe are your strongest areas? Your weakest?
Answer: "I don't have any weaknesses. My parents think that I am awesome!"
What are your values? What is most important to you? Very important? Unimportant?
Answer: "I think that being a successful professional is critical to my success. Succeeding is the most important thing to me. I want to avoid failure at all costs so failure is unimportant."
What are some of your future school and career goals? What you see yourself doing in five or ten years?
Answer: "I see myself pursuing three careers at the same time. I want to be an Investment Banker, an Attorney Who Gets Paid Lots of Money to Help the Poor, and a Dermatologist. This is why I want to get into Harvard because Harvard will help me achieve these goals. I also want to run a big art charity to help people."
What kinds of environment do you prefer? Big cities? Small towns?
Answer: "I want to be where I can be successful."
Last edited by JonLaw; 08/29/12 03:00 PM. Reason: Why not?
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Joined: Apr 2012
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Interesting link with some good stuff...just note that it was published almost 20 years ago.
I don't like that the college application process has changed over the past 20-30 years, but it is just something that our kids have to deal with. While you can hire the college consultant in 8th grade, and he'll plan all of your HS courses with just the right mix of courses to maintain a high GPA, teach you ways to game standardized tests, carefully pick your sports, arts & community extracurricular activities...most kids do just fine if they follow their interests.
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Joined: Feb 2011
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Not to mention the fact that people who aren't wealthy are at a big disadvantage in this game. The Ideal Overprogrammed Non-Introspective Young Adult problem is actually only possible when you have enough wealth to run the program at a high level to create the Perfect Shiny Resume(TM) Kind of counterintuitive, isn't it? But true, for all that. That is the problem, bottom line. It isn't that colleges are using "unfair" screening processes (though that is also a side-effect of this phenonmenon), so much as that they are selecting for things which should be a proxy for high potential, but all-too-often are only a proxy for high SES, and are becoming ever moreso. That I find objectionable, yes. I find it objectionable because it is disingenuous as a process to select for high SES when you say that you are selecting for "best and brightest" instead. Guiding a child-- even one with the capacity-- to the levels evidently necessary to be Ivy-league material as a high school student is frankly beyond the means of most lower-middle-class households. Please note that 'means' there signifies much more than financial means. When both parents work full time and the student attends a low SES public school, the resources are simply not there for that child. I was one of those kids. If the climate had been what it is now, there is no way that I'd have racked up the elite college acceptances that I did. I simply had a regular kind of job and band as my extracurriculars, I had no leadership or travel, no volunteer hours, etc. That, coupled with very high SAT scores, was enough. At least it was then. I agree with Val's assertion that "exotic" has come to mean something in this process that really isn't backed by any kind of research on outcomes.
Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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Joined: Feb 2010
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This is the point I've been trying to make. When you MUST do all these activities, and you MUST excel at them, you aren't doing them for healthy reasons, and you won't get the benefits that would get from doing things just because they interest you or are otherwise important for healthy reasons. Today my wife informed me that our daughter, age five, will start taking golf lessons -- in a family where no one has ever golfed. When I asked why, she said "Title IX". Title IX was supposed to promote "gender equity" , but as a recent NYT article http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/11/s...k-female-athletes-equal-opportunity.htmlBlack and White Women Far From Equal Under Title IX By WILLIAM C. RHODEN June 10, 2012 describes, the pursuit of one definition of equity can lead to inequity by another definition. The wife has also thought of making little girl row, since female rowers are sought by the Ivies. I agree this is all pretty silly but find it more amusing than disturbing.
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The young lady next door to us commited to a small northern college when she was a Freshman in HS. She was awarded a full athletic scholarship......for (wait for it)........Bowling.
Granted, she did bowl a 300 game as a Freshman, certainly skilled no doubt.
Last edited by Old Dad; 08/29/12 08:35 PM.
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My son is doing fencing, mainly b/c it is one of the only sports that u can easily wear a hearing aid. It is definitely unique too
Last edited by jack'smom; 08/29/12 09:01 PM.
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My son is doing fencing, mainly b/c it is one of the only sports that u can easily wear a hearing aid. It is definitely unique too My BIL did that sport, too. He got into Harvard (didn't attend - no scholarship), so it's definitely Harvard-approved.
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Oops, a twenty year old article, though looks like mostly good info. Speaking of college requirements... had ran across a reference to Lockhart's Lament, a biting paper discussing math education from the pov of a mathematician ( http://www.maa.org/devlin/LockhartsLament.pdf ), has this funny quote interlude in it: “You mean Paint-by-Numbers? We’re seeing much higher enrollments lately. I think it’s mostly coming from parents wanting to make sure their kid gets into a good college. Nothing looks better than Advanced Paint-by-Numbers on a high school transcript.” “Why do colleges care if you can fill in numbered regions with the corresponding color?” “Oh, well, you know, it shows clear-headed logical thinking. And of course if a student is planning to major in one of the visual sciences, like fashion or interior decorating, then it’s really a good idea to get your painting requirements out of the way in high school.”
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My son is doing fencing, mainly b/c it is one of the only sports that u can easily wear a hearing aid. It is definitely unique too My BIL did that sport, too. He got into Harvard (didn't attend - no scholarship), so it's definitely Harvard-approved. Below is the list of activities and sports that Harvard asks about on its application form http://www.admissions.college.harvard.edu/apply/forms/supplement_1213.pdf . Fencing, crew, and golf, which have been mentioned in this thread, are all listed. There have probably been many College Confidential threads about how these activities rank in the Harvard hierarchy. I don't think Harvard cares as much about frisbee as football. Sorry Val and HK, this is how the game is played  . 01 Arts, Visual Arts 02 Dramatics 03 Vocal Music 04 Band 05 Orchestra 06 Writing / Literary Magazine 07 Journalism 08 Student Government 09 Debate 10 Social Service 11 Ethnic Groups 12 Religious Groups 13 Political Groups 14 Dance 15 Outdoor Activities 16 Baseball 17 Basketball 18 Crew–Heavyweight 19 Crew–Lightweight 20 Fencing 21 Field Hockey 22 Football 23 Golf 24 Hockey 25 Lacrosse 26 Sailing 27 Ski–Alpine 28 Ski–Nordic Racing 29 Soccer 30 Softball 31 Squash 32 Swimming/Diving 33 Tennis 34 Track/Cross-Country 35 Volleyball 36 Water Polo 37 Wrestling 38 Cheerleading 39 Martial Arts 40 MUN 41 LGBT Groups 42 ROTC 43 Badminton 44 Equestrian Sports/Polo 45 Frisbee 46 Rugby 47 Pre-Professional Groups 48 Environmental Groups
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There still no way around the fact that an Elite School(TM) would devastate my savings, so I'm not on board for financial reasons.
They are not friendly to relatively low-income (under six figures) hypersavers.
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