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    Joined: Jul 2009
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    Does it make more sense for kids to be held back from going to college earlier so they can get more state paid college credits?

    Kids are getting high school credits in pur gifted elementary. Maybe a DYS child would be able get thru Highschool in 3 years and go to college early. They might be better off taking advantage of the paid college opportunity.

    My oldest is going into 6th, and hit the ceiling on the Explore. I'm thinking a bit ahead. This is all new to me.

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    It makes a ton of sense, provided the student can take enough college classes to stay challenged and engaged during the course of the year.

    My eldest DS spent the majority of his last 3 semesters of HS in either AP classes or at the local community college taking credit hours his HS paid for. He ended up with 38 college credits, all of which transfered. That equates to considerable money saved in college as well as already having experienced challenging courses before entering college full time. Valuable experience all around.

    One of the things to be careful of if at all possible is what classes transfer and which ones won't. Colleges including state colleges are getting picky about transfering credits. The colleges are scrambling for money too and looking to reap max. tuition from students and their parents. It used to be that if a student got a 3 on an AP test they'd give college credit for the course, often these days, it takes an AP test score of 4 and sometimes even 5 depending on the course and the college in order to get that credit at a college.

    The other consideration when looking at early HS graduation as opposed to sticking out the 4 years and accumulating additional class credits is how many core classes a student has when applying to a college or applying for merit scholarships. The more core classes a student has, the more college credits a student has while in HS, the better the college admissions office likes it and the better the merit scholarship application looks.

    Some colleges use what's called an RAI score to determine admissions and many base merit scholarships off a similar scale.
    Calculating an RAI usually includes the items below, you can probably find RAI calculators with an internet search.

    1. Cumulative Grade Point Average

    2. ACT/SAT Score

    3. Class Rank

    4. Core Classes Taken in Years. Core classes include: English, Math, Science, Social Studies, and Foreign Language. If you will have 8 credits of English, 6 credits of Math, 6 credits of Social Studies, 6 credits of science and 8 credits of Foreign Language you will have 17 years of core classes. (Each credit = 1/2 year with the exception of Algebra 1A and 1B these two classes equal 1 year of math.)

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    Many years ago my DH taught at a community college that participated in a program called "Running Start." The best and brightest kids at the local high schools could do some or all of their junior and senior years at the CC instead. Many were awarded an Associates degree along with their high school diploma.

    As pointed out by the PP you have to be careful about transferring the credits though. This CC was a "feeder institution" to a particular regional university in the state system. Students who chose to continue somewhere else did not necessarily have all credits transfer. Since the CC was on a quarter system many schools on a semester system were unable to transfer the credits in any sort of meaningful way. (i.e. the courses were calculated to be short a few hours so the student would receive 3.72 credits but needed 4 for the class to count.)

    It was a great program for the students who participated, many of whom had spent years being bored and unchallenged. The biggest drawback I saw was at the local high schools. When you pull out the best and brightest what does that leave behind? Smart kids who were either not quite at the level to do this program or whose parents didn't support it were left in an even less challenging environment. It did however make attending college affordable for a whole lot of smart, economically challenged kids who otherwise may have never found a way to attend.

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    Originally Posted by Pemberley
    When you pull out the best and brightest what does that leave behind? Smart kids who were either not quite at the level to do this program or whose parents didn't support it were left in an even less challenging environment. It did however make attending college affordable for a whole lot of smart, economically challenged kids who otherwise may have never found a way to attend.

    As Old Dad pointed out above, the financial incentives are aligned to push kids into the less challenging environment.

    I did a lot of game playing with respect to course selection to maximize my weighted GPA.

    In fact, economic optimization means that you want to be the top of whatever institution you are at. So, if you want to go to med school, get a 4.0 at State and avoid the Ivies.

    Challenge and economic optimization often point to different strategies.

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    There really is a "game" to- it, isn't there? I was so naive entering college as a first-generation college student. My high-school was on a 12 point grading system which doesn't fairly match up to a 4.0 especially with so many of the kids entering school who were getting 5's due to Honor's classses. But once I started college I learned how to play and was able to get my master's for free by going to a smaller school with an excellent clinical program. I work alongside colleagues who paid hundreds of thousands at elite private schools (there are several in the area). They make the same "helping field" salary as I do - minus the $500 monthly student loan.

    I plan to help my kids to a well-planned cost benefit analysis of their secondary education starting with opportunities like you mentioned above.

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    Having just went through the college applications and merit scholarship application process and being very successful with both I want to caution any parent on a complete focus on GPA in HS. Contrary to popular belief, colleges don't just look at GPA and ACT / SAT test scores anymore when considering an applicant for admissions or for merit scholarships, that's simply not enough these days.

    The vast majority of colleges want the complete package. What I mean by that is a well rounded applicant who has taken full advantage of extra curricular activities offered both by their HS and outside of HS. This may often include volunteerism, leadership, sports, music, clubs, etc. My eldest DS didn't have an overly impressive GPA, aprox. a 3.65, however, 38 credit hours of college classes, a well rounded resume of volunteerism, leadership, club activity, and excellent interviewing skills yielded him both a Presidential Scholarship and a Science Scholarship of admirable size. The college saw he challenged himself from an early age and was very active and well rounded, they know that's a strong sign of probable continued success.

    I've seen numerous friends of my eldest DS who had a 4.0 GPA or higher that weren't considered for merit scholarships or even admission at some colleges because their GPA and / or good ACT was pretty much all they had to show for their time in HS. I know that may sound odd to some of you, however, it's reality. Colleges want well rounded students these days.

    Last edited by Old Dad; 08/14/12 07:58 AM. Reason: Throwing my keyboard in the corner with the other keyboards that can't spell
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    Originally Posted by Old Dad
    Having just went through the college applications and merit scholarship application process and being very successful with both I want to caution any parent on a complete focus on GPA in HS. Contrary to popular belief, colleges don't just look at GPA and ACT / SAT test scores anymore when considering an applicant for admissions or for merit scholarships, that's simply not enough these days.

    The vast majority of colleges want the complete package. What I mean by that is a well rounded applicant who has taken full advantage of extra curricular activities offered both by their HS and outside of HS. This may often include volunteerism, leadership, sports, music, clubs, etc. My eldest DS didn't have an overly impressive GPA, aprox. a 3.65, however, 38 credit hours of college classes, a well rounded resume of volunteerism, leadership, club activity, and excellent interviewing skills yielded him both a Presidential Scholarship and a Science Scholarship of admirable size. The college saw he challenged himself from an early age and was very active and well rounded, they know that's a strong sign of probable continued success.

    I've seen numerous friends of my eldest DS who had a 4.0 GPA or higher that weren't considered for merit scholarships or even admission at some colleges because their GPA and / or good ACT was pretty much all they had to show for their time in HS. I know that may sound odd to some of you, however, it's reality. Colleges want well rounded students these days.

    Thanks for sharing your experience, and congratulations on your son getting merit scholarships and college admissions. I have read that some selective colleges are looking not so much for well-rounded applicants but applicants that have good grades and test scores and are exceptional in one area, such as sports, math (qualifying for the Math Olympiad team, for example), science (placing at a national science fair, for example), or other areas. Time and energy are limited. If my children are talented in a particular area, I may encourage them to focus on that talent (while not neglecting their studies) rather than trying to spread themselves too thin.

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    I think it really depends where you want to go to school. GPA definitely does matter.
    Out here in California, the average GPA for accepted students to our middle-of-the road UC schools (not Berkeley) is 4.20 on a 4.00 scale. That is very high. Out here, it is super competitive to get into a good college. You need grades, high test scores, and activities. It really depends on what schools you are talking about- Ivy league schools, for example, etc. are only accepting perhaps 10% of the applicants.

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    Please understand I wasn't saying that a high GPA isn't necessary in many cases, I was saying that it's often not enough and certainly not enough in and of itself.

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    Originally Posted by Bostonian
    I have read that some selective colleges are looking not so much for well-rounded applicants but applicants that have good grades and test scores and are exceptional in one area, such as sports, math (qualifying for the Math Olympiad team, for example), science (placing at a national science fair, for example), or other areas.

    Certainly different colleges have different criteria, in fact, I was surprised to find that even within my state, all the state colleges placed quite a bit different weight on different criteria. Being my first time into the admissions / merit scholarship application process, I was a bit surprised by that. One would think state colleges would be quite similar in that respect.

    No doubt finding the right "fit" for each individual is worth taking some time and doing some research.

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