Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Help, Mommy Guilt and Disappointment

Hi All,
I am having a terrible time with my DS11's decision for 6th grade. Would love some advice.

He's 2E, HG. He's gone to a full time gifted program since 2nd grade and it has been tremendous. Except for this year..... We moved to another state and he started in their GT program. It's housed in an inner city school, bus ride over 1 and 1/2 hrs and the work is sometimes "busy" work not quality GT stuff.

So after a year there he has decided to make the transition to the home middle school honors program. He's made some local friends that are also GT and going to the local middle school.

I am devastated. My husband says it's become more about me than my DS. Maybe he is right. I just feel like we have this chance to get a more rigorous education and what was the point of the last 4 years GT if he's giving up on it. Now he'll be limited to early college high school options, IB, etc. if he comes to the local school. Realistically, I may not be considering his 2E enough to realize he probably isn't early college material, due to his focus issues.

To be fair our local high school and middle school are top notch. Known in the area as major college prep type environment. Academics are very much promoted there.

I just can't help feeling like we are giving up and feeling like some of the other moms/kids still in the GT program are going to think he couldn'd handle it, etc.

I know I am wrong....just can't get past it. He loves the kids in the GT program and always fit well. He got straight A's in the program so it wasn't tough. The homework was an issue at night and that is what finally made my husband say enough is enough. My son struggled to concentrate at night and do the homework without major support. He wasn't medicated at night either and was tired because he also plays sports, piano, scouts....

Second, and this is the one I know I really have an issue with..... Guilt over not homeschooling.... We have new neighbors that have moved in and the mom will be homeschooling. I am feeling so inferior. I know I can't handle doing this with my 5 kids (probably all GT and a couple 2E.) I feel like I'm failing them because they would get a better education here at home. This mom has no particular reason to homeschool other than she wants to see her kids more. How can I "own" what works for our family and get past not providing the ultimate learning environment for my kids?

Thanks
spirited mama

Is that your and his overall assessment of the program? Because indeed, it may not be worth the bus ride to him. Commuting is awful IMO. Three hours a day can be spent a lot of other ways.


If the program he's giving up is busy work, why do you think what he'll get locally is less rigorous? Have you really examined the local options in detail? Will he be placed appropriately, accelerated as necessary? Your description of what's available locally does not sound awful to me.


What they think doesn't matter.


Who says that homeschooling is the ultimate learning environment?

For some kids, the challenge of adapting socially to school, being flexible and patient with the pace of other-directed learning, offers lessons that cannot be matched at home. This is certainly true with my 2E. We decided purposefully to keep him enrolled in public school, when HSing would have been "easier" in terms of educational fit; no regrets for us.

Some kids thrive under all that individual attention; for some, it's really better to be independent from parents and finding their own way in the world. Depends on the kid. Some parents are utterly unfitted for HSing. I like my job and would hesitate to give it up to HS (though I thought about it when it seemed like we might pull DS from school). It is okay to have other priorities. It is your life and your family and you get to say what benefits the whole group.

I imagine that you knew when you chose to have five kids that there were certain things that would be challenging about that; I don't think it's useful at this point to beat yourself up because you don't have the resources to do for your kids as if they were all only children. Your family is what it is, your resources are what they are, and you should do what makes sense for your family, not your neighbor's family.

DeeDee

Thanks, DeeDee. That's exactly what I needed to hear....over and over again:)

The local option has the same math acceleration option with Alegebra I in 7th grade, honors Language Arts, etc. Only difference is that the class will be "watered down" with the students enrolled vs.the GT school. Since the honors program accepts much lower score for admission.

He'll be a mile up the road and be able to do his activities. I'm proud of him for making a decision that I know is hard, not just the easy way out. He's sad to lose friends from his GT school after just moving here and making them. I think he is looking at the long term picture. He's being more clear headed than his mama....a good sign!

Yes, homeschooling would not work for us and I need to learn to own that. My kids actually want to be in school. They all said they'd miss friends, etc. I work part time from home and can barely manage that with them home in the summer. I don't think that would work if they were homeschooled. Their local elementary is amazing and I'm able to volunteer almost every day for a bit. It's really the best for us.

spirited mama - Chin up! We can only do what we feel is best for our kids, and what's best for GT kids sometimes changes frequently. It sounds like you and your family weighed all the options and picked the best one. I would have done the same. The GT program doesn't sound as fabulous as it could have been. The local option sounds pretty darn good. Whether watered down or not, there will not be a ton of kids taking algebra and honors LA in 7th, I'm guessing, and hopefully your kiddo will find a couple kids at his level.

We do drive a ridiculous amount each day, so I know how hard that is. I think you and your family will have a period of great relief when your DS has that extra time that used to go to commuting.

Try not to feel guilty - you're doing a great job. And as for the GT families thinking anything, most likely they'll think "wow, I can't believe they did that long commute for so long!" And if they are friends, they will understand. Hopefully your DS can still keep in touch with his friends from the old school. It's good to make that effort.

Remember-- this isn't just about "schooling" for your family or your child!!

It's also about life-balance. Less time traveling means more time doing other meaningful things.

Really, that's the only explanation that is needed for others. As our children get older, they truly NEED people and activities beyond what family/school alone can provide. You're making room for those things.

While there may be a part of me that wonders if our choices are the "right" ones (there's that perfectionistic streak again), I have to let go of that and reassure myself that even if they aren't, they're probably "good enough" choices, in the end.

I hear you. I had guilt about not homeschooling when I wasn't...and now that I am homeschooling our ds12, I have some guilt/worries about whether I'm messing him up in DIFFERENT ways. The guilt, worrying, etc., it's your job but you have to relax somewhat about it.

Also, for us, homeschooling one kid didn't naturally follow that we'd do that for both. ESPECIALLY when our dd is so outgoing and truly a handful, she doesn't love school, but after being home with her this summer (I do work, but from home)...I am glad she has the break from us/vice versa.

Ds and I work out the homeschooling by doing a bunch during the evening/early afternoon; when I'm working during the day, my ds does his own thing on the computer, outside play, etc. Not perfect, but for him, it is better than the 98% stressed out state he was in during middle school.

thank you all. These comments really were what I needed. DS and I are headed to the local middle school to register this afternoon. I wasn't ready to do that until today. I appreciate your input. This board is wonderful.

Spiritedmama --
I get the sense that your son is your oldest child? If so, it's important to remember that middle school is really different. It is very much about executive function and making sure your child is ready for HS. This is important work that has to get done. Making sure he has ownership of all his work, and that he can manage it all.

You spent the last 4 years at the GT school making sure your child wasn't bored and losing motivation, or causing trouble in school because he was bored, or feeling like an "alien" because he was so different from other children. It's not a race. If you have preserved your child's love for learning, then consider it a job well done.

Thanks, herenow. That puts it in perspective. Yes, he is my oldest so this is all new. My husband believes that it was important to get him through the elementary years without losing his love of learning and using the GT school helped do that. Now that we are moving into Middle school the benefit of the GT school isn't as great since classes start to be grouped by ability. This makes sense.

Spiritedmama,
As a homeschooling mom, I can tell you it isnt for everyone. If you have found a school that works with your son and makes your son happy that is what is best for him. You are doing great. I homeschool because I havent found a school that will work well with my childrens needs.

Dont feel inferior because you dont keep your children home. I think you have done an amazing job to still have a son that loves learning. That is what is important.

Okay, STOP THIS NOW.
Your neighbor is not a better mother for homeschooling. She is not nobler, providing an overall superior education, more innovative, cooler, braver, thriftier, a better Scout, or anything else. What she is doing is being a mom who has considered what works well for her family and followed through on it.
You, otoh, are...a mother who has considered what works well for her family and has followed through on it. You did what was best, then circumstances changed and you did what was best then, and now they're changing again and you're doing what's best again.
So I figure you probably both get equal Good Mommy points. (And as an aside, I've homeschooled gifted and 2e kids and, while I wouldn't trade the experience and think it was absolutely the right choice at the time, I frankly am just as happy they've elected to go to the brick & mortar high school at this point.)

You appear to have several different stressors. I suggest that you step back and re-evaluate. That commute would not be good for anyone. Maybe he can suplement some on-line accelerated courses. Maybe he would just like a break to re-group and make a smooth transition due to the move. Even if a move is a positive one, it is still stressful. Focus on your and your families needs and do not even consider what the neighbors may or may not be doing. Until someone walks in your shoes, they really do not know how they fit. As for as the other gifted parents and the program; will it really matter 10 years from now what they think? No. Use this time for free discovery. A gifted child is going to continue to learn. I found that many of the items on the gifted exams were not learned in the classroom, but from life experiences, travel, and our own personal interactions with our HG DS. Everything will fall into place if your focus is only one your situation. If you focus on the external stressors you will not be grounded.

Exactly. It's not always the right fit.

AND it's not always done properly. A friend of mine who teaches in public high school says that many of the home school kids they get who transition back to public school are at a lower level than their public school grade peers. (I'm guessing this isn't in reference to the G&T kids who are home schooled to accelerate - different story for them, maybe...) But many, many of the neuro-typical kids who are home schooled apparently don't get a complete education, mostly because the parents who do it haven't been able to fully prepare themselves (i.e. teaching techniques, curriculum content, etc etc). There are some parents who shouldn't home school (i.e. too busy?) who try anyway, and sometimes the kids suffer as a result.

Btw, I'm very pro-home school, generally speaking, and many parents do a fantastic job... I considered doing it myself... but some family situations are not optimized for it.

Don't feel guilty... omgosh... I don't think I could PARENT five kids, let alone home school them! lol

In regards to the home schooling option, as has been said, you need to assess what is best for you, your child, and how that effects the whole family obviously. As someone who runs weekly strategy gaming events and regularly works with gifted children I’d like to make a suggestion to parents who home school. Make mass efforts if you home school to involve your child in social activities on a regular basis please?

The biggest problem I’ve seen occur in regards to home schooling is when children do become involved in social activities outside the home they often show a lack of knowledge of social skills, ability to handle social problem scenarios, and knowledge of acceptable social behavior.

Now, before anyone blasts me, this pains me greatly and I do my best as a mentor to help those often highly intelligent children to gain the social skills necessary to adapt to an unfamiliar environment. It often takes years of weekly nurturing. Luckily, the strategy gaming community is accustomed to having such people involved and lack of social skills is most often forgiven and dismissed as part of the “quirks” of those sometimes involved in the gaming community.

So if you home school, do yourself and your child a favor and go out of your way to ensure there is plenty of social activity for your child outside of your home please.

[quote=Old Dad
The biggest problem I’ve seen occur in regards to home schooling is when children do become involved in social activities outside the home they often show a lack of knowledge of social skills, ability to handle social problem scenarios, and knowledge of acceptable social behavior.
[/quote]

I know you were sharing your experiences Old Dad, and I really do appreciate hearing everyone's experience, so please know I'm not trying to argue or counter what you've said. I do agree with you that being sure to provide opportunities for social experiences and learning is an important part of homeschooling. FWIW, my experience has been different. I haven't ever homeschooled myself, but I've had quite a few homeschooled children take part in groups I've led, and my experience has been the opposite - the homeschooled children that I've had have instead often been quite adept at understanding acceptable social behavior and are able to navigate social nuances as well as the other-schooled kids

I wonder if sometimes the social challenges people see in some homeschooled kids are simply kids who have social challenges, and would have the same type of challenges in other-school too?

Best wishes,

polarbear

Entirely possible polarbear, whether the symptom is a result of lack of social interaction or simply because the child is socially challenged, increased social interaction with mentoring seems to often help the problem.

A school can worsen manners (I'm not sure what "social skills" means) if it tolerates misbehavior by students. I went to a good suburban high school. I remember once going to a lower-track English class to take a test for another class with the same teacher. I was surprised by the chaotic environment. The boys in the back of the class loudly carried on their own conversations, which the teacher must have noticed but ignored. This never happened in honors classes. In urban schools the behavior tolerated can be much worse.

If you disrespect your boss at a meeting in this way, expect to be fired. These boys were being DE-socialized.

How one socializes within their family isn't necessarily appropriate for how one socializes outside of the family. People interact differently, additional social skills are needed such as learning how to introduce oneself, gain the trust of others, gauge when to trust others, know when / when not to offer personal information, and when to just walk away among other things.

If someone spends the mass majority of their time at home they often don't develop the outside the home social skills until such time as they're forced to do so...and then it can be a painfully bumpy ride in a short time span. Is this true in all cases? Of course not, it's just my personal experience that it happens more often with those who are home schooled as they often have less social interaction during their school age years. Your personal experience of course may vary.

I think there's the issue of "social manners" vs. "Street smarts". Kids need to know both. I learned manners at home. I went to a ROUGH high school. I mostly stayed away from trouble, but I quickly learned when to speak up, shut up, and get away as fast as possible. I do think these experiences were invaluable, but I shudder to think of my son learning them in quite the same way.

The social landscape of childhood and especially adolescence is ragged. I think offering our kids experiences where they can learn how to survive is necessary whether in school or out.

Interesting. I went to a good high school in a small college town in the 80s. Our 9th grade student teacher in honors English told us the same story about her different classes. Yet I took wood shop with some of the kids from the lower-track English classes and they were all perfectly behaved in shop class. Maybe they were more interested in shop. I don't know.

I agree with Old Dad about socializing and homeschooled kids, whether the reasons are for learning to interact or (in our case) just getting out of the house and being part of a big group of kids. My eldest will be homeschooling via online courses this coming year. We're fortunate that our city has a free after-school program in a building with a gym. It also has a skateboard park and huge fields. The kids can do sports, play games, and get homework help. They also have a pool table, a ping-pong table, and other sundry things. DS will probably spend 10-15 hours a week there. This program is one of those rare gems that seems to have survived successive bad economies completely intact.

I'm not sure I'd accept whol*sale a public school teacher's comments on homeschooling, anymore than I accept whol*sale a homeschool parent's opinion of public schools. Both sides have some pretty pervasive prejudices-- and having one foot in both communities, I hear them constantly.
From what I've seen of homeschoolers-- and you can't swing a cat in this area without hitting one, honestly-- they're pretty much like any other kids with involved parents. Some are way ahead, some are a bit ahead, a lot are average, and there are some who are behind. IME though, the ones who are behind often are kids who, because of exceptionalities or developmental lags, would be behind in public school-- and they're being homeschooled to avoid getting lost in the shuffle.

I thought about that after... you're probably right...

Thank you all. I finally got a chance to check back in on this thread. I appreciate all your input. It does help so much!

Unfortuntely, we don't have school figured out like I thought this year. My son is giving push back on leaving the GT school now. He is afraid the honors program will be too easy....ughh. He's also worried about leaving friends he just made last year at the GT school (even though he has just as many friends at the local middle school since he's be doing activities locally.) Sadly, he's afraid of the "perception" of him leavimg and what the kids still in his GT class will think.... He's such a worrier. He's been saying he's worried he "won't get into a good college" or that he "needs to do this and go to an early college H.S.or IB high school or he won't get a good job someday." Yikes! I am really worried about the stress he's put on himself. We've told him repeatedly that these concerns are not something to have at 11yrs old but it's not getting through... We've reassured him that it's about life balance and his childhood only happens once.
My husband and I have been very careful with our discussions and what we've said to him about this school decision. So I don't think it's based on what we are also worrying about.
We are three weeks from the beginning of school and he's an emotional wreck who refuses to make the decision.... So he wants us to "pick" and either way I think he's setting us up.

I re-read the messages on this thread. In looking at them, I wonder if you (and your son) need a break from thinking about this decision. It's hard to make the best decision possible under conditions of significant stress (e.g. you think he's setting you up. Sounds like the stress talking to me).

My advice: if you don't work, pack your bags and go somewhere else for a few days. If you can't leave, stay home and find some new things to do, like hikes or pools or local tourist attractions or whatever. Either way, DO NOT bring up this decision for a while. Forget about it as best you can, and look at it with fresh eyes in a week (or more).

I have not read the whole thread, just the update, about to go watch olympics--but...he is only 11. You are the parents. I think kids should have input, but at 11 parents decide. I think it is too much pressure on a kid to have the weight of that decision.

Yes to this. Really seems like your son should be just fine at the local school.

I went to an excellent suburban high school. The smart affluent kids in the AP classes (some of them anyway) were rude and obnoxious to the teachers. This is not an issue relegated to race or class or intelligence. And, sadly, connections can get kids out of a whole lot of disrespectful behavior. Google the recent incident at Piedmont Driving Club, one of the most prestigious clubs in Atlanta, for examples of terrible behavior by those who have not been fired from their jobs, were probably obnoxious in high school, college, and the workplace, and have continued to not suffer the consequences of their behavior.

Thanks!
He knows we have the ultimate decision as the parents. We've always framed this as him giving his input/preference but we have the final say. I think I'm as confused as him anymore:) and can't seem to make the decision either:)
My husband is absolutely sure the local high school will be just fine. I'm too emotional about it so Dad's going to have to give the final word. We've just thought about it too long and too much this summer and does makes it hardier to look atclearly.

If I were you I would have him give the local school a try this year. No school decision is set in stone, he can make a different decision again when time comes for HS if he wants to. But getting rid of that commute AND moving on from a program that maybe isn't at "GT" as they advertise is probably a good idea in spite of what others may think about the move. Use the commute as the excuse (since it is legitimate!). I suspect he is just getting cold feet regarding the social side of starting over again. Who wouldn't?

Here are a few thoughts:
- Look for activities in his middle school that are academically oriented that he can get involved with. Aligned with his interested, of course. Like chess club, math club, science club, writing club, etc. When he gets to high school, there are usually more (debate, school newspaper, quiz bowl/various academic competitions). My D has "found her tribe" in those types of clubs at her school.
- Make sure he stays on the academic track for any AP or accelerated options that do exist at the high school. Algebra in 7th grade is a good example. But take a look at the high school curriculum and find out about any pre-requisites for the more advanced classes.
- Does your state have any option for high school kids to take college classes? Our state covers the expense for college courses starting junior year for qualified high school students. BUT, it can be hard to get into the program at the state flagship (which is in our town), so figuring out ahead of time what the options are and what is required is a good idea.
- If you can, supplement academically in the summer. Might be a challenge with 5 kids due to cost... but my D had some great summer academic experiences taking classes, collecting insects for 4H, and attending Davidson THINK. She is taking a free online statistics class through Coursera this summer on top of other activities, and enjoying that, so look into those for him as well. For my D, she needs to be learning new stuff all the time or she is unhappy. So we look for a lot of ways to feed that beast.

Good luck!

I think this is reinforced, somewhat, in specialty programs. I know when I pulled my kids out of the gifted magnet there were rumors going around that they'd been "kicked out" because both were asked by peers, point blank, if that were so. Part of the culture of some magnets is the perpetuation of the idea that somehow or another, magnet kids are more special than others. (Our county is particularly bad for that so admittedly I may be somewhat jaundiced in my view.) Add to it the emphasis in school of "you have to do well in elementary or you won't get into a "good" middle school, which limits your choices for high school, which means you'll be unable to get into a good college...pretty soon, a bad day in second grade has you spending the rest of your life panhandling for change at the bus station. Especially true for our high anxiety type kids (of which I have two ::::sigh:::: )