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DeeDee, I think both OT and neuropsychs can diagnose dyspraxia. The finger tapping test our ds had was part of a neuropsych exam and was used to determine why his coding subtest speed on the WISC was so low relative to his other subtest scores. Due to the type of task, a low coding score could mean a fine motor impairment or a visual challenge - the finger tapping showed fine motor challenge.

The actual diagnosis he received from the neuropsych is "Developmental Coordination Disorder" which is a diagnosis in the DSM and is the terminology used by psychs. If you were to ask his neuropsychiatrist if he is dyspraxic, she would say yes, but what she labels it for diagnosis is DCD.

polarbear

It could be a little bit of both (loose joints + neurological disconnect). My ds has really *really* loose finger joints - they bend backwards when he plays piano.

I think what is apparent here in these posts and also when you read about dyspraxia in general is that there are multiple causes and many many different ways in which it impacts people.

polarbear

Wow.

I definitely need to meet with her therapist to try and understand this because my DD doesn't sound like the kids you're describing, and I've not been able to google much info on apraxia/dyspraxia that does match her. Her balance issues are the OT's observations, not mine. She LOVES anything that is a physical challenge. We are going to enroll her in gymnastics as soon as we get a chance because she loves that sort of thing. She figured out how to do flips on her own, she loves balance beam type things and hanging from monkey bars. She can stick a landing like a gymnast. At the park, there are half-tires mounted to the ground and she jumps from one to the next better than kids noticeably older. This summer we have put her in the pool with an arm and chest float and she taught herself how to swim. She even jumps off the diving board and goes down water slides. She's so brave it scares me to watch her sometimes, but she ends up being really good at whatever she tries. I am completely unathletic, though, so anything would impress me!!

Her fine motor skills have always seemed advanced to me. She uses utensils well and her writing is, honestly, more legible than my husband's. She learned over 500 asl signs by 2 years old and could do a knob style puzzle when she was 8 months old. When we went to Disney World, she had just turned 2 and to keep her entertained in the stroller, we gave her a LeapPad (which has a touch screen and a very small stylus). Random people videotaped her 2 different times because they just couldn't believe what she was doing (totally weirded me out!). I didn't think there was anything out of the ordinary about it until we were getting comments multiple times a day about how they couldn't believe someone so small was using such a toy.

I'm genuinely not trying to brag, I just want you to understand why I'm confused.

Her therapist did tell me about a sand toy she was having trouble with. It is a spiral that you pour sand in the top and it comes out the bottom. She said she kept trying it over and over, but it wasn't working and she couldn't seem to understand why. She suggested to her that it was upside-down, so DD looked at it, flipped it, and it worked. That seems weird to me because she recognizes all the time when things are upside-down, sideways, or just out of place and says "Uh-oh! We have to fix it!"

Our OT has done finger tapping as part of the battery on both children. Interesting, I assumed it was part of the standard battery they did (California something or other?). He was quite insistent that my 2nd child is exceptionally well integrated, nothing more than low tone and hypermobility at work, and in fact that the only reason she wasn't more disabled was the degree to which she could compensate. I have worried sporadically about whether he was missing dyspraxia or dysgraphia (she just got an A for the participation/behaviour parts of PE and an E for the actual physical skills). But she did exceptionally well at the finger tapping, the OT seemed to find it highly entertaining actually. Also all the posture copying (he would pose himself and she had to copy a mirror image of his pose).

I agree with master of none. FWIW, with each of my children, we've had other parents/teachers/private professionals express concerns at one time or another that didn't seem to fit with what we saw in our children. Sometimes they were out in left field, sometimes they were onto something, and sometimes they were spot-on about something we just hadn't seen. Almost always they were looking at our child through *their* lens of experience, and there can be so many different reasons that a child acts a certain way or exhibits a type of specific behavior etc.

I think in this case, I'd ask more questions of your OT re her observations and comments. Also ask her to define specifically what she was suggesting (did she use the word "praxis", did she mean apraxia/dyspraxia, etc). If she has a set of concerns or observations that she's collected over time when working with your ds, I'd consider having another professional evaluate your ds if you can swing it with your insurance.

As I mentioned above, it doesn't sound like your ds is dyspraxic, but dyspraxia can be *very* different in how it impacts children and in how it impacts an individual across functionalities. My ds is a gifted artist - he has drawn pictures for fun since he was very very little, the type of pictures that make adults say "Wow!" He started building amazing Lego creations when he was not quite a year old. He was alert from day one - very alert compared to other babies we've known. There were signs of his dyspraxia at a very young age, but we (parents) never saw them because we only saw the side of things we noticed, and we didn't know to notice anything else (does that make sense?). None of our friends or family ever had a clue he was dyspraxic, and none of his early teachers did (preschool or elementary). We found out when he was 8 - when his teacher suggested he had ADHD. That was a suggestion that hit us out of left field and our first reaction was "no way" - and we found a ton of reasons why he didn't have ADHD online... and ultimately no, he doesn't have ADHD, but the teacher was seeing *something* and it led us to very valuable info about our ds.

Anyway, I always believe the #1 expert on any of our children is us (the parents). OTOH, people outside our family who spend time with our children may have valuable insight, so I wouldn't pass on the opportunity to try to understand what the OT was seeing.

Sorry I think I sounded a bit preachy or dramatic - didn't mean to! Problem is *I'm* clearly challenged with saying anything concisely lol!

Best wishes,

polarbear

After a bit more research, I think I found what the OT was talking about - Ideational Praxis/Dyspraxia/Apraxia. I learned from a friend who has a child with speech apraxia that, at least in the state of NC, they can't be officially diagnosed with this type of thing until they are 3 years old, so that may be why she didn't use the dyspraxia/apraxia terms.

I've decided I'm going to hold off on further research until we meet with DD's therapist again Wed. so as not to research the wrong thing and get too upset. It sounds kind of scary to me.

This sounds like a great idea.

Well, after talking with DD's OT again I'm even more confused. She kept using the terms praxis and motor planning, but what she is describing sounds more like a lack of creativity or problem solving to me. An example she used was that if she is given a new toy/tool/object she can't figure out how to play with it, she has to be shown. She said she is so smart and has such a great memory that she tricks us in to thinking she can. Her example was to give her a bucket of water and a few little plastic animals and just let her go at it and see how or if she will play, thinking that she really couldn't play unless I showed her a few things to do first.

First, this sounds NOTHING like any praxis/motor planning that I've been able to find and if someone can direct me towards info regarding this I would be grateful.

Second, I see her play creatively with stuff all the time, however, it does usually relate to stories she has seen on tv or in books.

She also shows creativity with speech by saying phrases and then changing all the vowel sounds to the same thing (like all words will have the short a sound) or adding extra syllables to certain words at the end of phrases in a song, etc. I realize that is likely not part of motor planning, but it sounds like it goes with the same process the OT is talking about with figuring out new ways to play, except that's with words, not toys. Am I making any sense at all? I'm so confused.

We spent most of DD'S last session discussing this rather than her getting therapy and I still fail to see how this is motor planning. Help!

Mary I am not an expert on dyspraxia NOR have I seen your child, but I think that it's really really easy for gifted children to compensate astonishingly for any weakness they might have. I am pretty sure I am not the only child who wished things had been pointed out to me sooner, or that I had noticed things sooner myself. My favourite saying now is "If in doubt check it out!".

I remember thinking thank goodness my own child is co-ordinated and physically able, has good posture, etc and didn't turn out like me. Because she was seemingly developmentally advanced in many gross and fine motor skills, an amazing climber, various other things. I had her assessed by an OT because I knew she had sensory issues. I was utterly confused to learn that she had numerous gross and fine motor developmental issues. She's very good at learning motor skills she can learn her own way in her own time. She's pretty much in capable of learning motor skills in a group scenario in a typical fashion. Teaching herself playground equipment, big tick, skiing lessons, balls sports, etc - massive, massive fail.... Sometimes it does take a professional to point out things we aren't seeing. Maybe you need to find out whether she is the right person to fully asses what she is seeing, or who is, and have it formally assessed and then explained to you. She's not severe and she can compensate but she definitely does have significant motor planning issues that show up most in diffiultly learning new skills or executing anything that requires speed (ie ball sports).

This article may be helpful: http://www.icdl.com/started/therapies/documents/Chapter8.pdf