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Hi
So DS6 main area of interest is science, although growing in math, to date his knowledge has come from books and more books, with tv shows, trips to museums, and recently his first talk by a professor.

He likes all science but circles back to space, then human body, then physics, then chemistry. His favorite books are the horrible sciences, the way we work, anything basher, the brainwaves. We just ordered him Muse magazine, based on recs here. But where to go next? It feels to me like he is ready for a next step - he is rereading everything. Maybe I should just ask him what he would like to learn next? I am just not sure what next would be - what comes after the horrible sciences or basher books. And should we do more of a "curriculum" almost like homeschooling him in this subject? His knowledge level is pretty advanced but he still prefers kid sized font, and illustrations.

Thanks!

DeHe

I am interested in any replies too as DS4.5 is also obsessed with the human body and space. I can teach him more about the body but he prefers to read/learn it for himself

Take a look at Used Middleschool Science books. Nowadays they have lots of colored pictures. Spotting errors is part of the lesson. I remember when my son first brought his home from Middleschool I thought-this is exactly what I was looking for when he was 8! In areas where they are too simplistic try using Wikipedia, TED talks and Youtube to fill in.
Another idea is to look into Asimov's series on various subjects. My DS caried around 'A brief history of time' for a few months at age 10 like a Teddy Bear but since I couldn't understand it I couldn't check if he understood it. Even if he only just liked the pictures as I suspected I think it was a plus for him to hold proof in his hands that others were thinking these thoughts.
Love and more Love
Grinity

Grinity, I like how you combine helpful advice, humor, and veiled criticism (of textbooks in this case) .

I bought the science books used at our middle school http://holtmcdougal.hmhco.com/hm/series.htm?level2Code=MSIB10011&level3Code=6_MS for my son when he was in 4th grade, and they are not above his level. But they will not suit him 3 years from now when they will the assigned textbooks at his middle school. Maybe some gifted middle-schoolers should be taking science courses at the high school, but try convincing administrators of that.

I bought online for my then 6 year old the Young Scientist Club kits. We had alot of fun with them. They were very well-done science experiments based on a theme which came in the mail each month. He just loved those. Then I bought a Chemistry set online, and we've done some of those.
I also bought the History of Science books by Joy Hakim and read some out loud nightly to him.
I"m a very math and science-y person, so I frequently just monologue about science concepts to him.
He just did a one-week Aeronautical Science and Engineering camp at our local university, which he really loved (he's 9 now). I also have bought a human body kit with plastic bones, etc. in it that he has played with.
I wish there was more but I haven't found alot. At least for next year, his school does daily science classes, which I know he will love. He tells people he wants to be a doctor.

Grinity/Bostonian

Did your DCs like the textbooks? Or did they just give the knowledge which allows moving to more interesting reading? I think that's what has me stuck because I'm thinking the textbooks are very dry and formulaic but at the same time his knowledge base right now seems haphazard.. Although he keeps bringing out things I didn't know he knew, so maybe I should not be making assumptions!!! And maybe I am just putting my own rememberances on the texts and he wouldn't feel that way!

I got a physics book recommended a few weeks back, which asks questions and he has not gone back to it, I'm not sure why. I like the Asimov idea.we already do the a lot of YouTube, science channel and NOVA. Interestingly the stuff pitched at interested and somewhat knowledgable adults works for him in video format, not in book.

Thanks, these ideas have me thinking!

DeHe

DeHe, just started a separate YouTube query thread-- my kids are suddenly enthralled with NOVA too...

DeeDee

Caught me! But really, I'm almost completely double minded about this question. One mind has completely come to accept that my kid is developmentally on a different path, and that if something works for a heterogeneous group of kids 3 years older than him, then of course it'll be perfect for my kid. He's just built that way. Then my other mind is outraged at how low the bar is set for the general group, and is sure that with the right materials and teaching that the whole group could achieve a lot more, and by the way, aren't I wonderful ((humor alert)) for giving my kid the platform he needed to get where he is? ((Of course by this logic, aren't I terrible not giving him a stronger platform so that he could have achieved more?)) So I sort of hoover like an electron cloud in these possible orbitals. I sort of hope that I'm on a progression from mind 2 to mind 1, because I like myself better in mind 1. But I guess I wouldn't be trying to sell my services to help parents provide enrichment for their bright kids at home if I didn't believe to a small degree in mind 2.

/self examination

But - a colorful, shallow overview can serve a wonderful purpose as a jumping off point for a really good classroom experience, which my son did get in 6th,7th and 8th grade science class. History is similar - his 8th grade teacher used the text as introduction and overview and gave them tons of 1 or 2 page copies of original source material. My hat is off to her still. I just love that in Middle School the culture finally gets it that Abstract Knowledge is in the ballpark for kids and tries to reach in and bring kids there. I'm not going to be an expert in everything, there just isn't time, so I love a good scaffold or overview when I find it. I think Middle School and High School Level Textbooks are also great for parents to use as an outline when 'having conversations' with kids who aren't ready to grasp the material.

So maybe the answer of 'what to do next' is different for parents who swim in science and those who don't have it inside them - perhaps a tutor, even a High School teacher or student is the missing ingredient for some families.

Also - The Teaching company and magazines aimed at adult readership, such as popular science, maybe blog.makezine.com/home-page-include/
and maybe to schedule a visit to a Maker Faire? blog.makezine.com/home-page-include/

I guess visit a bookstore/library and browse the racks to see what level works for you and your child.
Hope that helps,
Grinity

http://www.howtoons.com/images/reader/VCGuideReader.html

One idea is to teach your science-y kid to draw so she or he can make really good visual notes.

Right now there is a summer camp of Maker Projects
aimed at 13-18 year olds, but probably fun for younger if a parent or babysitter took the lead -
http://www.wired.com/design/2012/07/google-maker-camp/

Professional scientist opinion ahead, so feel free to ignore any of this if it doesn't seem to apply to your child.

Most of us were distinctly, noticeably scienc-ey by this age in some strikingly similar (probably predictive) ways-- but it doesn't always resemble what non-sciencey adults would anticipate. I mention this because the shop-talk over a few beers often turns to what kinds of wacky, off the wall things we did as kids. Pretty much every scientist I know has at least ONE of these anecdotes, and usually dozens. We were kids deeply devoted to our pursuit of understanding.

We were the neighborhood Macgyver kids. The kids who would melt metals with an open arc created with a marine battery, DIY napalm + tennis-ball launcher ( )or create a Guinea Pig-powered van de Graaf generator. The kids that would teach a parrot the most awful profanity imaginable... and keep records of the creature's learning rate in different conditions... the kids who broke windows and dented cars with home-brewed trebuchets and impromptu physics tests, created optical benches and tested how rapidly materials could be ignited with the beam, filled wading pools and bathtubs with salt, mud, and sand, played with urine, grew mushrooms in inappropriate places (like closets and attics), made glider wings out of sticks and a very large tarp, tested the tensile strength of kitchen utensils, etc, etc, etc.

We often started out like low-budget, opportunistic Mythbusters with the ethical constraints of raccoons or magpies, quite frankly. Understanding guidance might have been a good thing. Most of us lacked that.


Oh, sure, many of us were voracious readers as well. Some of us even liked the theoretical side of things. My advice applies to the experimentalist rather than the theorist at any rate. Most kids who have a sustaining interest in science are obsessed by tinkering with things that most people barely even notice or simply accept.

This is the age at which most HG+ kids with hard-core science interests are ripe for science fair project books. I think that we had one that was "science fair projects for pennies" or some such thing.

What I mean by that is those books that are intended for:

a) elementary/middle teachers to use as a resource for setting up simple demonstrations, and/or

b) late elementary/early middle grades students to complete 'AWESOME' science fair projects. (they surely won't be original, but anyway...)


No, not because those things are anything like a good idea for producing a science fair project. They aren't. We're talking visceral, immediate experiments in physical and biological sciences using convenient materials, though.



Why I like them:

1. They give kids who are into science a way to do more science. Independently, messily, and authentically. (Uhhhh, and without running afoul of animal cruelty laws or the fire department. This is important to adults, for some reason, because they have rules about all kinds of strange things.)

2. I also like that, because some of the experiments are twitchy and more about theoretical viability than empirical robustness, they don't always work the way they are supposed to. LOVE that, in fact. Because it's a chance to consider how it can be made to work, or why it doesn't. (Some physics examples are highly materials-dependent, some biology examples are dependent upon environmental factors or species-specific, and some chemistry examples are highly dependent upon both.)

3. The other thing that I like about this is the open-ended nature of it. Oh, sure, the stuff IN the book is rather formulaic. Happily, it also often uses readily available and relatively nontoxic materials. The real magic, though, is in taking what is in the book, trying it, and then thinking about ways to improve upon it, change it up, change which variable you're examining, that kind of thing.

A child that learns that baking soda and vinegar can be combined to produce gas.

Huh. How MUCH gas? Was there another thing in the book that measured a gas? Maybe we could use that method to measure THIS too...we can then tinker using that understanding-- that tinkering is really where the science exploration and learning is happening. (I am pointing this out only because as Grinity points out, not all parents are science parents.)

"Wow. I wonder what would happen if I used ALL of the baking soda at once??"

This is a very valid question. Of course, it may be helpful to ask questions as your young scientist is investigating things....

"How would you know that adding more baking soda was what caused that to happen? How could we be sure that it wasn't just having a bigger container and a bigger volume for our reaction? If we use ALL of the baking soda, we won't be able to do any more trials-- how could we try your idea and have some left?"

In other words, I like to use simple materials and hand-on experience to get kids who are truly science-oriented thinking in terms of variables, testable hypotheses, and flaws in experimental design. Make them consider sources of error, figure out appropriate controls, and alternatives to their explanations for observations. Investigate uncertainty and statistis by repeating experiments!

4. The final reason why I like such books is that they provide SAFETY cautions where appropriate. Oy, the things that my DH and I both did as kids.

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Really excellent science camps do this kind of rigorous inquiry-led learning-- sometimes, with some advanced kids. It's quite rare for it to be detailed or accurate in classroom instruction, however, until honors/AP high school work. The problem is that most kids at 6yo really aren't up to the task cognitively, so it tends to devolve into follow-the-leader-and-watch-the-show.

I had a BLAST with my DD at this age because she was the. most. fun. kid. ever. in this respect. We could use baking soda and vinegar to make 'rockets' out of old film canisters, and then study the physics of the projectile we'd created and make predictions, repeat our trials, graph results, etc. etc. It was terrific! We put things in the sun to melt, we hit things with hammers. We froze things, we made projectile launchers, we extracted things from plants, and we grew caterpillars and identified the moths-- we played with genetics in radishes, made pedigree charts of eye and hair color in our family, and we played games with dice and coins and recorded results.

I wouldn't be too concerned about re-reading, fwiw. My DD likes to do that sometimes, and often it's just about her enjoyment of it all. I also wouldn't be too concerned about gaps or haphazard areas of interest. He is only six, YK? At six, it's completely appropriate for him to delve into things he likes and skim things he's less interested in.

Science really isn't a series of facts and formulas to remember; it's a process and a way of examining one's perceptions and questioning assumptions. The content in books is just the outward trappings-- the real inner machinery is in the kinds of tinkering that I've been hinting at rather strongly. A true scientist is pretty much incapable of making an observation without following it with either; "Huh. I wonder why..." and/or "Hmmm. I wonder what would happen if..." Most kids lose that joyful uninhibited approach to things, and it's a real shame. I may be biased, but I'm kind of convinced that scientists are not really made so much as they're born. Adult scientists are merely the kids that couldn't be educated out of this unfortunate natural tendency.

Other science magazines your DS may like:

Kids Discover (DD only recently let her subscription lapse-- she's aged out of it now)

Science News (probably a little old for him yet-- my DD wasn't into this one until she was about ten)


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DD was a big fan of the science-oriented DK Eyewitness books at one point, but by age 6, she was keen for more in depth material. It sounds like this is where you're at with your son. Middle and High school texts are probably at about the right level. The ones from Houghton-Mifflin and Mcgraw-Hill often include embedded experiments which are very much like the ones in the 'science-fair-project' books.

Some survey course materials from Gen Ed college courses might be interesting, too. DD was about 7-8 when she became interested in my stash of texts for my Gen Ed classes (Forensic Science, Environmental Science, etc.)


Be sure to screen some Mythbusters and see if that might be up his alley. Most of the science there is pretty straightforward, and it's often very well explained. Oh, and it's revolting, dangerous or destructive, which really appeals to some kids (namely the kinds of kids I mentioned in the start of this post). Maybe it's just my kid. And my DH. And me.

Lol, Howler's post brings home to me why I, despite my long-standing interest in science, am at core a mathematician and not a scientist. DS looks as though he's going the same way. We both like the occasional experiment, and for it to go right!

Books: my DS loves/d (come to think of it, he doesn't use them so much now at 8.5, I think because he has memorised them) the Usbourne Dictionary of series, especially the Dictionary of Chemistry. Despite the name, it's not a dictionary, and has loads of illustrations. The fonts are small, but that's pretty common with highly-illustrated books - my guess is these would have the right tone. They have lots of information, and I guess are principally supposed to be revision aids for much older children.

LOL. This speaks to the conditions in my home.

Thanks for writing. :-)

DeeDee

I loved HowlerKarma's post! It's great that some people like things like this--me and DD are more bookworms. Also, we've done more math books because she's been more interested in that so far, plus it does seem like there are more math books around. However, we have found a couple of books that you might check out: Science Explained--a really nice, far-reaching book similar to the DK books
but connects multiple topics very well (i.e., atomic structure, physics, physiology in some instances)--
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0805042369/ref=cm_cr_mts_prod_img

and if your kid has a sense of humor, these are not illustrated but are fun and are probably at the next level or so of reading:
Physics of Superheroes
Physics of Star Trek (plus of course the original Star Trek series is available through Netflix, as an accompaniment)

DBat, CollinsMum, thanks for the books recs - I think the dictionary of books might be a really good place to go although the fact that it says it suitable for AP test studying is one if those strange moments.And I know DS will love the physics of books but the tiny print is not our friend at the moment - when it's pages of text - he oddly likes it when it's blueprints or complicated diagrams.

HowlerKarma - I love your posts! We are sciencey here, although more theoretical than experimental on my part. DH is the experimental one, I'm the don't do that it will burn a hole in rug one. We have science kits and do let him experiment but I am thinking thanks to your post it might not be enough. He has snap circuits and likes that, but likes to take apart stuff that is used better. But his first love is sheer information gathering - so need more books - and he gets weird when he is stagnating, he loves to reread but at some point it becomes obvious he is doing it because he needs new inputs, he always needs something he doesn't know, if that makes sense.

DeHe

HowlerKarma, you had too much fun writing that post.

Can you come to my house and play with my kid?

I'm not sciency, but I am experimental. Now I wish I were sciency. Humph.

I'm debating asking for similar suggestions for younger? Mine is 3. I don't wanna be annoying or anything, but, like, ya know...

-Mich

Hi Mich
we started DS on the brainwaves books which are for 9-11 when he grabbed the science one at the science museum and wouldn't put it back. I think he was 4, they didn't make the little kid ones then, and once we started the older books seemed silly to go back. But really like the authors/illustrators and their approach - silly with great science.

Little brainwaves

And also, if your DS isn't too destructive with popups,these have nice science too. Called see insides

Space popup

They also have the human body and one on how things work - loved the escalator pull out

And have you started the original magic school bus books by Joanna cole - they are from the subject section in the library - not the picture book section, you will find great stuff there. Also go to Hoagies science reading list, good stuff there, I went after posting here and found sme good stuff. I actually have tons of suggestions for this age - but mainly doing the subject sections of the library - basically just start ignoring the age aspect. Oh, and if your DS is like mine, you will start to find problems with older things as they become outdated - no exoplanets, too old!

Another all time favorite
Transformed

I can keep going there are great ones in the ultimate book list too

DeHe

Don't forget natural science and the outdoors! My DH is a scientist, but he's a botanist, so the science in our house comes from a different angle. The natural world outside your doorstep is a different kind of science lab, and the naturalist approcah is often forgotten these days. My DD is an avid birder, entomologist, botanist, you name it. There are some really awesome citizen science projects out there these days. For instance, if you geek out on this sort of thing, eBird is incredible. You can do some simple things like planting certaint sunflower seeds in your yard and then observing what insects come to them on a certain day and sending in your observations, Then your kid can look at the other data sent in by others and see how this coalesces into useful data. There are a million ways to do this. Cornell Lab of Ornithology has some great stuff if your kid is into birds at all (and even if they aren't--again, you can really approach this as science, not lalala nature). Another thought is stream insects studies--what you find directly reflects water quality. So much great stuff like this out there. Also, it encourages the scientist mindset every time they're outdoors. My kids' thing right now is weather. Weather! It's always happening! The patterns are constantly there to observe, and you can see if your hypotheses were correct! I mean, it's perfect. It's pretty hilarious when they are walking through the grocery store parking lot loudly arguing about whether those are cumulus or cumulonimbus, though. They also constantly think they are seeing bizarre, rare phenomena.

Also, we must be the only ones, but nobody really likes DK here. In fact, they make me insane. Too nonlinear. No flow. My kids have flipped through them but never gotten cozy with them or really read them. I think their brains work like mine.

Yeah, mostly the DK Eyewitness books weren't my thing, for sure (well, except for the one about string instruments)-- but DD seems to like that scattered kind of visual/spatial approach. Or did, at least, at younger ages. They may have appealed to her primarily because they are so good to look at again and again. There's no narrative flow, but they are a rich source of "Oh, wow... I didn't see that before!" moments for re-reading. Some kids definitely like that kind of thing better than others, though. My DD tends to be a hummingbird reader like that, but I am not.

Someone else mentioned 'shopping' at the library for non-fiction. I second that. We basically went once a week and checked out dozens of books. In the Dewey decimal system, this is section 500~680, by the way... and in the LC system, it's call numbers Q, and to a lesser extent R and T...


I second the recommendation for the Cornell Ornithology program. We were a birdwatch yard for a lot of years, and we still do birdcounts. A truly local bird guide and a small pair of binoculars is a must! DD's obsession for the past few years has been wildlife photography of birds in our yard, so we've deliberately planted attractive plants to lure certain species of birds and insects. (Along the way, we studied different modes of plant pollination, invasive non-natives, insect/mammal/bird vision and sensory processing, and the electromagnetic spectrum.) We also did FrogWatch at a local wetland (and learned about mutagens, amphibians as indicator species, etc). One other-- my DD's been addicted to What'sThatBug for many years.

The USGS has some incredible resources about vulcanism, seismicity, and natural resources.

For weather, we like Weather Underground-- lots of data to look at there. (It can even be a little overwhelming.)



Sometimes your local county extension office can be a rich source of this kind of naturalist-oriented science/field study.

FrogWatch, you say? Hmmm..... (must go look that up!)

Yeah, we LOVE What'sThatBug!

About binoculars--I get frustrated because so many small binocs are so hard to use and just plain bad, and it can turn kids off birding. I personally can't stand to use those little cheapies that people hand out to kids. Now, I seriously doubt you have these, HowlerKarma, but just so others know, there is a major difference between a $30 pair and a decent $75 pair. It's hard, I know, because you don't want to spend that before you know if your kid is into it, but if they are finding bincos frustrating, just know that going a step up will make a big difference. Also, most kids can't really use them till about 6. DD has these: http://www.optics4birding.com/leupold-yosemite-binoculars-review.aspx and we really like them. As that review notes, these are great entry-level binoculars for ANYONE. I pick DD's up all the time and in fact I prefer them over my old, clunky pair.

Kcab
Wow, that looks terrific - thanks! I hope that we don't need to be out in a field away from people to do these, we are backyard challenged! The "air driven carrots" makes me concerned!

DeHe

My DS6 is another science lover (ditto I), he did Camp Invention this summer, it was age bracketed and I don't think he enjoyed it as much as he might've. One part of that was to bring an old bit of electronics from home for disassembly which he did enjoy. Contemplating some yard saling for some new things to dissect.

Local hackerspaces will sometimes have open houses (many amusing and cool tools/projects in those.) Another resource can be local manufacturers who can be surprisingly generous in giving individual tours.

And maybe someone already mentioned this site: http://howstuffworks.com
or this book: http://www.amazon.com/The-New-Way-Things-Work/dp/0395938473

DD loves math. She did beestar this summer. The program is full of all real life word problems, challenging stuff to help kids thinking. She rather do 9 hours of beestar than watch 1 minute of t.v. I think it is a well and easy-used program.
Lisa

Awesome thread! I'be been out of town so missed this the first time around. My DS5 is s science nut and had already proclaimed he's going to be a scientist so long as I can come to work with him (be still my heart).

HowlerKarma, I adore your post. My ds wandered around the other day testing what sticks to magnets and was distraught that it wouldn't stick to the two-year old being as "everyone has iron in their blood". He was also fascinated by the Olympic opening ceremony where they symboloized pouring molten steel to make the ring. He suggested we get ourselves some of our own molten steel...I suggested molten candy into molds instead.

We use cooking/baking a lot for chemistry fun. Alton Brown, from Good Eats on the Food Network, makes the science of food/baking/cooking fun. Plus you can eat your experiments (if you dare).

My ds also loves science kits. My dh and ds made a "non-Newtonian" liquid this week from cornstarch and water, but it didn't give a clear explanation of how this works. Any chemistry nuts out there want to help me answer my ds' curiosity?

I have bought many "Dummies" and "Idiot's Guide" books for my son (don't like the titles, but he reads them). Isaac Asimov wrote lots of science books for the layman, listed at http://www.asimovonline.com/oldsite/asimov_catalogue.html , of which my children have read several. His NYT obit http://www.nytimes.com/books/97/03/23/lifetimes/asi-v-obit.html is an interesting profile of a gifted and productive man.

"His usual routine was to awake at 6 A.M., sit down at the typewriter by 7:30 and work until 10 P.M."

That's how he wrote 500 books.

I love Dummies books. They could actually be called "[SubjectName] Written in Clear Prose." But I guess that's not as catchy as "[SubjectName] For Dummies."

Basher Books are a hit here.

http://basherbooks.com/usa/aboutbooks.html

ColinsMum
Had to resurrect this thread to give you and DS a huge thumbs up and to beg for more recs! We got the usbourne chemistry dictionary, and I was unsure how it would go over, I also got the physics book locounu recommended and both are too hard - but in a good way! At first DS just sort of glanced at the dictionary, but we also got him a model chem set which he LOVES. And so he just started this fabulous thing he does when it's too hard, he starts reading, but skips and skims, and asks questions. So you can tell its captured him. I was nervous because it's a revision aid for HS! I thought maybe I was jumping too far ahead. But now I think it's perfect - in terms of more advanced material without being too ahead and needing math skills he doesn't have yet. And having nice pictures and diagrams. Plan to get the other ones as well. And considering what I just found out his science curriculum is this year, these are welcome indeed!

DeHe