Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Children who express the desire not to be children

Yup! I've heard that line, too!



I agree-- my daughter is not particularly unhappy to be only 13, but she occasionally chafes at the asynchrony which is her reality. Socially, she is also aware that to 'pass' with her peer group, she often has to not give her chronological age away too soon. This can lead to her acting older in some settings, and to making some pretty amusing assumptions about what we should permit her to do... though like Cricket's DD, I'm also pretty sure that she doesn't actually think that we should allow her to go camping for a week with her 17yo (mixed gender) friends, etc. The things that she does think we have "no right" to tell her not to do (Skype, etc.) she simply ignores us about and does on the sly. That's got it's own problem, but I'm not convinced that it's that she really WANTS to be older than she is or more autonomous, other than in those areas of... er... disagreement. Some of that is being a teen of any cognitive ability or personality, and it's too hard for me to tease apart which is which.

I just know that she doesn't seem to have the kind of existential angst about her life that I did at her age. My life as a child was not at all consistent with my inner compass, and I felt powerless to live according to my own needs and values. I think that DD doesn't have those feelings.

I find it interesting that the term "old soul" has been used in this topic, because that's a term often used to describe gifted kids.

When my DD began expressing these kinds of ideas, I was quick to show her what the grass looks like on the other side. For example, when she said she wanted to be an adult because we don't have to answer to any rules, I explained the criminal justice system.

I have also explained how so many of our rules are based on protecting her rights, which is why they're non-negotiable, because we're not allowed to violate her rights. For example, I've told her she can't stay up late on a school night because she has a right to good health and a good education, and adequate sleep plays an important role in both. The subtext in this conversation is that her parents are not arbitrarily exercising power because she's small... we're simply responding to an obligation that's bigger than both of us.

This has also allowed us an easy way to discuss children in foster care without getting too deep into the discussion. "Those kids get taken away because their parents didn't respect their rights." Nuff said.

Dude, I've explained the same things to my DD many times. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem to help. She's aware that we do have rules to follow, but to her not breaking laws seems fairly easy compared to the many restrictions she lives with. Honestly, I'd rather be an adult than a child in most ways, so I get it.

But it's more than just the law, isn't it? There's no law saying you can't keep your child up too late, send them to school too tired, and have them blow up over nothing in the middle of class because of it. More than likely, it's the child who will be blamed, not you.

Legally speaking, as a parent you can skate by with the minimum of effort, because as long as your children aren't in imminent danger, there's nothing the legal system can do. Legally speaking, you can also get away with some outrageously bad parenting behaviors, so long as that imminent danger threshold isn't crossed. As long as your kid:

- attends school regularly
- isn't being beaten too badly
- isn't imprisoned in a closet, shed, crib, etc.
- isn't working in a sweat shop/coal mine/begging professionally/etc.
- isn't being molested or otherwise sexualized
- receives sufficient food/water that they're not obviously sick or dying
- has clothes to wear in a reasonable state of repair
- has adequate shelter and supervision

Then pretty much anything goes, because parental rights. What a world we live in, eh?

Even some of the things I've told my daughter are her rights are not legally respected as such. She has a legal right to an education, but it doesn't have to be "good" (if that could even be defined in legal terms). In the wrong socio-economic situation, a "good" education could be a non-starter anyway. Same goes for health... as long as she isn't about to die, legally, my job is done, regardless of whether I'm setting her up for early onset diabetes or not.

"Doing the right thing" means accepting a whole host of obligations well above and beyond "obeying the laws." My DD has these extra rights because DW and I have decided she has them, because these are the things a child needs to thrive, and because ultimately, that's our goal. And I'm sure that's the same goal we all share here.

So, that's the tricky part... how to tell your DD that you've accepted a whole set of obligations beyond staying out of jail. In our case, we've kept it simple... my DD7 has no idea which rights are protected by law, and which aren't. If your DD has already thought beyond that, your job there is tougher. Most parents attempt to skate by with the tried and trite: "because I love you," or "it's for your own good." But obviously that's not enough for a gifted kid (I'm not convinced it's enough for any kid, honestly).

Anyway, hopefully some of this gets you thinking about how to communicate with her in a different way that helps. Maybe this would help, though I don't believe it has any legal force: http://www.un.org/cyberschoolbus/humanrights/resources/child.asp

Dude I love your way of putting it and i will be utilising that with my kids Hope you dont mind me poaching your idea!

Not at all! That's why we're here, isn't it?

That really is good advice for younger kids, Dude-- or for those who haven't gotten a grasp on the grey areas of "must" and "should" in terms of responsibilities and obligations.

I must obey traffic laws. I should keep my promise to my friend, even if it isn't convenient to me.


I've had one that thought "past" that point since she was pretty young. I'm not sure why, or if it has anything to do with her areas/LOG-- it may have more to do with having a hidden disability that can be impacted by others who don't follow the rules. Probably there is some sort of synergy at work there. She has been brutally disappointed by the selfishness even of those who (supposedly) love her, like extended family; she was certainly aware of this kind of behavior's potential to wound others by the time she was four.

At any rate, we've frequently use Swiftian methodology to process decision-making as a "thought experiment" and follow natural consequences as they ripple outward.

Selfish choices are sometimes okay, but usually not when they have the potential to hurt others. Be the person that you want others to be.

That's the only moralizing that we tend to do in such matters, and for her, that seems to be sufficient. I suspect that a grasp like this may only be accomplished via being on the recieving end of human pettiness and self-serving behavior enough (something that most 3-5yo children have-- thankfully-- not got a lot of experience with).

Having these kinds of overt discussions about what it means to be a good person really makes a difference during adolescence, we're finding. My DD may not have been inclined to play girl-bullying games to start with (probably not) but she's fairly nuanced now at defusing the behavior in her peer group, too.

My son who is 2E said he didn't want to be a child starting at seven. He didn't fit in with kids his age. We asked the developmental pediatrician and educational psychologist if it was okay for him to have all older friends--three and four years older. They told us that his mental age was closer to his friends' age so it was fine.

He didn't fit in physically because of hidden disabilities. He didn't fit in mentally because he was gifted. He had nothing in common at all with kids his age.

Because of the vocabulary he used and the things he talked about, adults always guessed that he was a smart kid about two years older than his actual age. Recently, his aunt was surprised to find out that he was two years younger than she thought.

He has no friends to hang out with now. His older friends have jobs and cars and he is too young for that. The only friends he talks to regularly are online and most of them are in college. They don't know that he is only 14.

He doesn't talk like most kids his age where we live. On the way to look at fireworks on the 4th of July he noticed old abandoned businesses and commented on the "juxtaposition" of those and the big city buildings in the background which turned into talking about the economy and politics and then he asked if I had a chance to read about the "God particle" that he wanted me to read so I could talk to him about the latest science news. He found a receipt which showed the last four digits of a credit card number and talked about permutations. He uses the internet on his iPhone to look up everything he wonders about--even math. He uses Wolfram Alpha. He seems to learn a lot that way.

We saw a lot of the attractive young professionals who live in my daughter's apartment complex enjoying themselves at a pool party. I am sure it looks like being an adult is really fun.

Driving around, stopping at coffee shops, watching people and wondering about everything he sees--that is what he thinks is fun. We have to go back to the reality of a small town, nothing to look at but cows when we drive anywhere and internet that is too slow to even play the multiplayer online games that he likes.

My son always had freedom to learn what he wanted because we pretty much unschooled except for math and he took one language arts class last year. He was able to take a two month break in the middle of the school year to deal with the pain of getting used to a more aggressive brace without making up work because he learns so much on his own all year. I try to keep up with what he is reading so I can at least discuss some of it but I am not that good at it. At least I try. I don't think he will really appreciate what he had as a child until he is an adult. I know he has had to deal with a lot of physical pain but his dad and I were right there with him trying to help in whatever way we could. When he is finished growing he will not have to wear the brace that he has had to wear since he was 11. I am hoping he will try some of the kid things he didn't get to do but he probably won't.

I'm not totally clear what you mean here. Of course she knows that our obligations to her and the world extend beyond just folloiwng the letter of the law. We've explained that we do things as we do "because it will help you in x, y, z way" or "because we wouldn't feel like we were doing our job as your parents if we didn't." Believe me, these comversations have gone on and on. You seem to be suggesting that there is a higher level of conversation to be had, but I'm not quite sure what it would be beyond that. What am I missing? When I was talking about the law above, it was more that her perception of adulthood is that the world is pretty open as a general rule in that you don't have a ton of restrictions on you outside of not breaking the law and providing for basic physical needs of living.

Well, playing on the computer all day is certainly one way that you can go through life as an adult.

So, it's quite within the realm of possibility, it's just not a healthy way to experience life.