Who else has kids like this? This is a very common theme with my DD. She really just can't seem to stand the fact that she is still a minor and has to follow the rules that society places on her as a minor. It absolutely makes her nuts. She says things like "Well, I have the right to life and liberty! It's a free country!" with some frequency. You really have to remind her again and again that we are still the humans in charge around here. It's sort of funny, but at the same time, it freaks me out just a tad. She isn't devious/serious enough for this strong emotion to be of great concern to me--but she is 8. (Mind you, I don't think she wants to do bad things, exactly. She just wants to be in charge of herself. She just went to sleepaway camp for a week and had a blast. She has always been a really, really independent kid.)

Lest we sound really controlling...she has a pretty good amount of freedom, actually, though we aren't permissive with things like screens and junk food. I don't know if that's what she wants, though. Probably not. She basically just wants to...live her own life, I think.

The grass is always greener!

We get a lot of this from our 8yo, too. "When I'm a grownup, I'm going to use the computer all day long!" "I should be able to stay up as late as I want!" My fave: "That's against the child labor laws!"

I think he's just annoyed that he doesn't get to make all the rules, but he certainly wouldn't want to be the one going to work all day.

You can tell her that she "does not know what she does not know."

My older dd (she will be 9 next month) is very much like this. She is extremely mature emotionally and is in a hurry to grow up. She already wants to discuss global topics such as why there are nuclear weapons and wars, labor exploitation overseas, poverty in Africa, and immigration issues. I really try to avoid these topics b/c she is an anxious child and while she has a curiosity to know about these things I question her ability to discuss them without becoming anxious. Because of this we have a no news on t.v. policy at home.

I think your daughter's feelings are normal and healthy.

Maybe the happiest day of my life was when I graduated from high school. I was a good student and did not dislike school, but the warehousing aspect of high school -- you must be in the assigned classroom for 7 hours a day, even study hall -- grated on me. College is not like that, nor are many (but not all jobs).

Maybe you could channel your daughter's frustration into a plan to finish high school sooner and thus become an adult, at least in some respects.

Another annoying thing about being a child is that you don't have your own money and require your parents' approval to buy stuff. Fewer teens are working now than before (a bad trend perhaps), but it takes "only" some computer skills and a good idea to make money writing an "app" or even starting a company.
Therefore I want my kids to learn to program as soon as possible, and I will try to expose them to business, too.

I agree. Almost every kid I knew couldn't wait for the next birthday, which would mean being one year older.

When I was in my twenties, I had a friend who, when in a restaurant, would gleefully push his plate away from himself and announce, "The best part of being an adult is not having to clean my plate!" I still feel that way.


I would add that you also have to learn how to complete a project once the novelty wears off. At some point, you also have to learn how to show up on time and figure out how to work in a group. My crummy jobs as a teenager taught me a lot of that kind of stuff.

I also think for some kids they sense instinctively that they're spirits or whatever you want to call it are "too big" for a kids' body or in a kids' life, like Bostonian described about being in a warehouse.

Your DD will no doubt look back, or have a conversation with you, about the things she didn't realize were easy at this time (probably when she has her own kids?)

Did you ever write letters to your future self when you were a kid or a teenager? Maybe she'd like to do that. To be opened different times...10 years, 20 years, but also just six months or next year.

Ultra, we have found with my DS who has AS that he really doesn't grasp the social hierarchy that the rest of us intuitively understand. He used to find it outrageous that teachers would boss him around; he didn't grasp that their social role entitles them to do that. Likewise, if he really wants to do something and we say no, he doesn't deep down understand that because we are his parents, and the reigning adults in the household, we have a right to deny his request.

For DS, this isn't necessarily wanting to be a grownup faster, or even have more autonomy-- it's failure to understand that social roles convey rights and responsibilities, and often convey power of one person over another.

DeeDee

There may be some of that, but I think she really does want to be a grown-up and have more autonomy. We have recently given her the privilege of being allowed to walk up and down the street alone and it's probably the best things we've done for her in a long time--she cherishes that like you wouldn't believe, because it's "adult." She sometimes has to be talked out of buying her own ticket to the movies or her own food at an event (maybe I shouldn't talk her out of it, but it does seem weird to buy these things for her brother and have her spend her allowance on them). She would be happy to spend her money on things like this instead of toys (actually, she has never bought herself a toy in her life, though she sometimes buys books). It's sometimes hard not to feel rejected by this, but I don't think it's really personal--I do feel loved and cherished by her, but there is just the sense of...how soon can I be done with this part?

She is not like some mini-adult, though--all super-mature and responsible. Actually, she is highly emotional and NOT especially mature for her age, although she is concerned about things (war, environmental destruction, etc) that most kids her age are not. She is mature in the sense that she separates from us very easily, loves to travel, and loves novelty and new experiences. Camp was fabulous because of this. She had an incredible time and asked if she could go back again THIS summer!

I agree that kids generally look forward to birthdays anf getting older. Well, many do. Some seem to fear it. I don't remember feeling strongly one way or the other--sometimes growing up seemd good and other times I wasn't so sure.

I loathed being a child.

My DD doesn't mind it as much as I did.

It's just a personality difference, I suspect.

I could quite readily see how my life would be much, much better after I was no longer a minor (dysfunctional home), and I also have a high need for autonomy. I recall most of my childhood as being little more than a waiting game for being an adult.

My DD on the other hand, has nothing that she's looking forward to 'escaping' particularly, and she already possesses a fairly large degree of personal autonomy. She thoroughly enjoys being a child. Her 2nd E also means that she already has a world-weary understanding of the responsibilities and worries that come with autonomy, though. It's less appealing to her to be independent and responsible for it all.

On the other hand, she is looking forward to being old enough to drive. :gasp:

ultramarina,
your DD, in reading about her alot, really sounds like what I would call and "old soul". I would let her buy those tickets but teach her to indulge on herself "sometimes". And learn to think about what she thinks her emotional impulses "mean" in the big picture - where is it leading her? She sounds like a really special child. Does this even make any sense? It does to me...I hope it helps you!

We went to our local art gallery last year and there was an artwork that allowed you to write a wish and then take a ribbon with a wish on it eg seeing dinosaurs, being in your favorite book, being a superhero etc. DS(then 3) walked along reading all the ribbons then chose 'I wish I was older'.

My son (7) is more like this than my daughter. He is eager to run his own show and make his own decisions (except for his clothes - he still likes me to pick them out each morning, lol).

He insists on doing most things for himself, and likes to do things HIS way. This is sometimes a problem at school... for instance recently he got all the answers correct on a section of a math test but only got half marks because he didn't use the math strategies that the teacher had taught (he did it his own way!).

He questions authority often and insists on detailed explanations for rules (he kind of wears me out sometimes, actually, lol). I get the distinct impression he'd rather be the one making the rules than following them.

Sigh...at times I do think this is how she sees it. At least we are not a dysfunctional home...well, we try not to be, although we struggle with her. She is starting therapy soon and we are starting "parent management training" (I have mixed feelings about this!--but we'll see what it's like).

Old soul is seeming more accurate these days. She has been described that way a few times by people who know her in person, and for some reason I've resisted it, because in many ways she is whimsical--she still likes to pretend that there are fairies, etc. But she is becoming more self-aware, and then the old-soulness becomes more visible.

btw, I will add that my overwhelming sense about my DD had always been that if she can get through the teen years relatively unscathed, she is going to be a fantastic, fascinating young adult. DH feels the same way. In fact, this feeling is really, really strong. I have a very clear picture of her--passionate, artsy, quirky, with a circle of unusual friends--but I also have a picture of how things could go sideways, which I generally try not to look at too often.

I hope you are right, but books such as "Thinking, Fast and Slow" and "Rational Choice in an Uncertain World" tell me that impressionistic predictions of the future tend to be no better than chance. If you used statistical information about your daughter, say high school GPA, IQ score, and scores on a personality inventory, you may be able to make predictions slightly better than chance if they are fed into a prediction model.

My dd13 is this way as well. She isn't defiant, she just feels older than she is and wishes that she could be at times. I've wondered if some of this is related to grade placement (she'll be a high school sophomore in the fall), but I think that a lot of it is just who she is.

I recall a conversation we had a bit back in which I was reminding her that she is 13 and she told me that she wasn't really 13, she was just chronologically 13, but more like 16 or so in reality. She's been to two summer camps out of state this summer with other high schoolers, some of whom were 17, and came home with a new list of friends who she has been texting a lot.

The only real disagreement we've had in regard to this is her trying to convince dh and me that it would be a fine idea for her to take a road trip with three 16 y/o boys from one of these camps next summer to go visit one of her new female summer camp friends who lives in Wisconsin -- not happening even if she was 16 or 17! When I told her that aside from the fact that these are teenaged boys and there is no way that I'd put my then 14 y/o daughter in a car with them to drive that distance, she had an answer to all of my scenarios re lack of life knowledge and how she'd know how to handle them: flat tire, lost, hit an animal, car jacking...

It isn't a huge push from her in that I doubt that she really thought that we'd agree to something like that, but it is more that she feels a lot older than she is and wants to freedom to go do things that sound fun like that.

I think that another aspect that we've had to consider is that b/c she is placed with older kids most of the time and it is a better social fit for her, these other kids either assume that she is older than she is or treat her as an age peer b/c she is an emotional peer even if they know that she is younger. That may feed her belief that she is older than she is. OTOH, I wouldn't have had her going into 8th or 9th grade next year to head this off if it would b/c it would have been a truly poor fit for her academically and socially.

Let me guess-you tend towards the TJ end of things on the Meyers-Briggs scale?

Well, of course it's just an impression. But I'm pretty aware of her personality. (Though I'm not sure yet if she's ENFP or ENTP. I myself have swung from a fullblown INFP towards more of a INFJ, sometimes even testing INTJ).

Both my older two boys are like this.

Aiden truly believes he is 7 (he is 5.5 now) and Nathan believes he is turning 5, maybe 6 on his next birthday (poor kid is only turning 4)

Aiden's play therapist told us that this is not just an "I wish I was older" thing, but that he truly truly believes that he is a 7 year old trapped in a 5 year-old's body.

She also mentioned the autonomy thing and since we give him more personal choice he is a LOT better - calmer, happier and more content with the frustrations that a 5 year old has to face

I think that you can also do a lot of good for these kids to acknowledge their feelings, allow them to feel them, to explore them and let them know that you love them regardless of age, ability and anything else.

When I say to my kids that it's time to stop playing computers (for example) and they moan about it, I feed their wishes: "I bet when you are an adult you will play on the computer all day!" Sometimes they just need to know that you UNDERSTAND them and their desires and they then understand that its just not possible and they they are able to switch off the PC (or whatever else it is) quite happily.

Since we started doing it like this it makes all the difference, simply because they feel that they are heard and understood.

Yup! I've heard that line, too!



I agree-- my daughter is not particularly unhappy to be only 13, but she occasionally chafes at the asynchrony which is her reality. Socially, she is also aware that to 'pass' with her peer group, she often has to not give her chronological age away too soon. This can lead to her acting older in some settings, and to making some pretty amusing assumptions about what we should permit her to do... though like Cricket's DD, I'm also pretty sure that she doesn't actually think that we should allow her to go camping for a week with her 17yo (mixed gender) friends, etc. The things that she does think we have "no right" to tell her not to do (Skype, etc.) she simply ignores us about and does on the sly. That's got it's own problem, but I'm not convinced that it's that she really WANTS to be older than she is or more autonomous, other than in those areas of... er... disagreement. Some of that is being a teen of any cognitive ability or personality, and it's too hard for me to tease apart which is which.

I just know that she doesn't seem to have the kind of existential angst about her life that I did at her age. My life as a child was not at all consistent with my inner compass, and I felt powerless to live according to my own needs and values. I think that DD doesn't have those feelings.

I find it interesting that the term "old soul" has been used in this topic, because that's a term often used to describe gifted kids.

When my DD began expressing these kinds of ideas, I was quick to show her what the grass looks like on the other side. For example, when she said she wanted to be an adult because we don't have to answer to any rules, I explained the criminal justice system.

I have also explained how so many of our rules are based on protecting her rights, which is why they're non-negotiable, because we're not allowed to violate her rights. For example, I've told her she can't stay up late on a school night because she has a right to good health and a good education, and adequate sleep plays an important role in both. The subtext in this conversation is that her parents are not arbitrarily exercising power because she's small... we're simply responding to an obligation that's bigger than both of us.

This has also allowed us an easy way to discuss children in foster care without getting too deep into the discussion. "Those kids get taken away because their parents didn't respect their rights." Nuff said.

Dude, I've explained the same things to my DD many times. I don't know why, but it doesn't seem to help. She's aware that we do have rules to follow, but to her not breaking laws seems fairly easy compared to the many restrictions she lives with. Honestly, I'd rather be an adult than a child in most ways, so I get it.

But it's more than just the law, isn't it? There's no law saying you can't keep your child up too late, send them to school too tired, and have them blow up over nothing in the middle of class because of it. More than likely, it's the child who will be blamed, not you.

Legally speaking, as a parent you can skate by with the minimum of effort, because as long as your children aren't in imminent danger, there's nothing the legal system can do. Legally speaking, you can also get away with some outrageously bad parenting behaviors, so long as that imminent danger threshold isn't crossed. As long as your kid:

- attends school regularly
- isn't being beaten too badly
- isn't imprisoned in a closet, shed, crib, etc.
- isn't working in a sweat shop/coal mine/begging professionally/etc.
- isn't being molested or otherwise sexualized
- receives sufficient food/water that they're not obviously sick or dying
- has clothes to wear in a reasonable state of repair
- has adequate shelter and supervision

Then pretty much anything goes, because parental rights. What a world we live in, eh?

Even some of the things I've told my daughter are her rights are not legally respected as such. She has a legal right to an education, but it doesn't have to be "good" (if that could even be defined in legal terms). In the wrong socio-economic situation, a "good" education could be a non-starter anyway. Same goes for health... as long as she isn't about to die, legally, my job is done, regardless of whether I'm setting her up for early onset diabetes or not.

"Doing the right thing" means accepting a whole host of obligations well above and beyond "obeying the laws." My DD has these extra rights because DW and I have decided she has them, because these are the things a child needs to thrive, and because ultimately, that's our goal. And I'm sure that's the same goal we all share here.

So, that's the tricky part... how to tell your DD that you've accepted a whole set of obligations beyond staying out of jail. In our case, we've kept it simple... my DD7 has no idea which rights are protected by law, and which aren't. If your DD has already thought beyond that, your job there is tougher. Most parents attempt to skate by with the tried and trite: "because I love you," or "it's for your own good." But obviously that's not enough for a gifted kid (I'm not convinced it's enough for any kid, honestly).

Anyway, hopefully some of this gets you thinking about how to communicate with her in a different way that helps. Maybe this would help, though I don't believe it has any legal force: http://www.un.org/cyberschoolbus/humanrights/resources/child.asp

Dude I love your way of putting it and i will be utilising that with my kids Hope you dont mind me poaching your idea!

Not at all! That's why we're here, isn't it?

That really is good advice for younger kids, Dude-- or for those who haven't gotten a grasp on the grey areas of "must" and "should" in terms of responsibilities and obligations.

I must obey traffic laws. I should keep my promise to my friend, even if it isn't convenient to me.


I've had one that thought "past" that point since she was pretty young. I'm not sure why, or if it has anything to do with her areas/LOG-- it may have more to do with having a hidden disability that can be impacted by others who don't follow the rules. Probably there is some sort of synergy at work there. She has been brutally disappointed by the selfishness even of those who (supposedly) love her, like extended family; she was certainly aware of this kind of behavior's potential to wound others by the time she was four.

At any rate, we've frequently use Swiftian methodology to process decision-making as a "thought experiment" and follow natural consequences as they ripple outward.

Selfish choices are sometimes okay, but usually not when they have the potential to hurt others. Be the person that you want others to be.

That's the only moralizing that we tend to do in such matters, and for her, that seems to be sufficient. I suspect that a grasp like this may only be accomplished via being on the recieving end of human pettiness and self-serving behavior enough (something that most 3-5yo children have-- thankfully-- not got a lot of experience with).

Having these kinds of overt discussions about what it means to be a good person really makes a difference during adolescence, we're finding. My DD may not have been inclined to play girl-bullying games to start with (probably not) but she's fairly nuanced now at defusing the behavior in her peer group, too.

My son who is 2E said he didn't want to be a child starting at seven. He didn't fit in with kids his age. We asked the developmental pediatrician and educational psychologist if it was okay for him to have all older friends--three and four years older. They told us that his mental age was closer to his friends' age so it was fine.

He didn't fit in physically because of hidden disabilities. He didn't fit in mentally because he was gifted. He had nothing in common at all with kids his age.

Because of the vocabulary he used and the things he talked about, adults always guessed that he was a smart kid about two years older than his actual age. Recently, his aunt was surprised to find out that he was two years younger than she thought.

He has no friends to hang out with now. His older friends have jobs and cars and he is too young for that. The only friends he talks to regularly are online and most of them are in college. They don't know that he is only 14.

He doesn't talk like most kids his age where we live. On the way to look at fireworks on the 4th of July he noticed old abandoned businesses and commented on the "juxtaposition" of those and the big city buildings in the background which turned into talking about the economy and politics and then he asked if I had a chance to read about the "God particle" that he wanted me to read so I could talk to him about the latest science news. He found a receipt which showed the last four digits of a credit card number and talked about permutations. He uses the internet on his iPhone to look up everything he wonders about--even math. He uses Wolfram Alpha. He seems to learn a lot that way.

We saw a lot of the attractive young professionals who live in my daughter's apartment complex enjoying themselves at a pool party. I am sure it looks like being an adult is really fun.

Driving around, stopping at coffee shops, watching people and wondering about everything he sees--that is what he thinks is fun. We have to go back to the reality of a small town, nothing to look at but cows when we drive anywhere and internet that is too slow to even play the multiplayer online games that he likes.

My son always had freedom to learn what he wanted because we pretty much unschooled except for math and he took one language arts class last year. He was able to take a two month break in the middle of the school year to deal with the pain of getting used to a more aggressive brace without making up work because he learns so much on his own all year. I try to keep up with what he is reading so I can at least discuss some of it but I am not that good at it. At least I try. I don't think he will really appreciate what he had as a child until he is an adult. I know he has had to deal with a lot of physical pain but his dad and I were right there with him trying to help in whatever way we could. When he is finished growing he will not have to wear the brace that he has had to wear since he was 11. I am hoping he will try some of the kid things he didn't get to do but he probably won't.

I'm not totally clear what you mean here. Of course she knows that our obligations to her and the world extend beyond just folloiwng the letter of the law. We've explained that we do things as we do "because it will help you in x, y, z way" or "because we wouldn't feel like we were doing our job as your parents if we didn't." Believe me, these comversations have gone on and on. You seem to be suggesting that there is a higher level of conversation to be had, but I'm not quite sure what it would be beyond that. What am I missing? When I was talking about the law above, it was more that her perception of adulthood is that the world is pretty open as a general rule in that you don't have a ton of restrictions on you outside of not breaking the law and providing for basic physical needs of living.

Well, playing on the computer all day is certainly one way that you can go through life as an adult.

So, it's quite within the realm of possibility, it's just not a healthy way to experience life.

But isn't your experience of adulthood one with tons of restrictions? Think about all the things you'd like to be doing, and then think of all the things that keep getting in the way of that... work, household chores, errands, child care, etc. All of those things you're responsible for restrict your choices, just as you restrict hers.

Sure, nobody is absolutely forcing you to do anything beyond the minimum, but I'm sure you accept certain responsibilities anyway. For example, it's perfectly possible for a family to ignore dirty dishes and overflowing garbage for months at a time, but I'm assuming that's a lifestyle you haven't chosen to experience.

And this is exactly why being an adult normally feels like being in a prison.

Very true.

On the other hand, as an adult, that is a "choice."

For kids whose desire is based in autonomy, that isn't necessarily off-putting in and of itself. Their problem isn't rooted in a desire to NOT be forced to do things they don't feel like doing, but a desire to be able to make decisions about what to do and when-- for themselves.

Ding ding ding! Yes. This is it exactly for DD. It's not so much that she would choose to do things so very differently. She just wants to make the choices herself.

BTW, I don't feel like being an adult feels like being in a prison at all. I think I have quite a lot of freedom and I appreciate it. I get why DD feels that she doesn't. We tell her what to eat, what she's going to do each day (largely), when to go to bed, what she can and can't do in the house, etc. And I don't think we're overly restrictive.

Would it be possible to identify a few things where she is able to make the decisions particularly something she feels strongly about - and then sit down and have her explain why she made the decision and then try it? Since its summer, you might be able to give her some more leeway and you might be surprised that her choice is effective rather than just not your choice.

Part of this maybe age. I remember my mom, whose view was to pick your battles and let the rest go, ltthough from my point of view, EVERYTHING was controlled.) When I wanted to wear make up at 13 she was against it but decided to take me to a make up artist thinking that if she was going to lose this battle (since I could put it on when I left the house) at least I would know how to do and perhaps would look less like something I shouldn't. Same thing when I wanted designer jeans, she told me the yearly clothing budget I wasnt particualrly aware of, gave me a credit card, and said go shopping. I spent my yearly budget on like 3 pairs of jeans and was fine with it. Which really surprised her. It taught her she could give me more free rein and I learned about money and credit cards as the bill came and had to be paid. But I was 16 at this time. So I am not sure how feasible this is with an 8yr old but maye this is the asynchrony at work - maybe she is ready for some preteen type independence which would not be granted because of the idea of age and maturity. Just athought, although I am probably in the ridiculously overprotective realizing I baby DS too much room right now, he is losing everything he owns at camp, likely because we have allowed him to be less than repsponsible, so might have to take me with a grain of salt here!!!

DeHe

"Overly restrictive" is a subjective term. One person might see the same behavior as excessive permissiveness, and another might see it as too restrictive. It seems like she's trying to tell you that you both see things differently here.

FTR, I don't feel like adulthood is a prison, either, because the responsibilities I have today are ones I have chosen to accept. And that's the key, isn't it? You say your DD wouldn't do things very differently if given the choice... so why not give it to her?

We don't tell DD7 what to eat, or wear, or do in the house. We simply set the boundaries on what she cannot eat, wear, or do. Within those boundaries... go nuts.

Yup. We're both "boundary" types of parents, too. Probably because we both understand (completely) the drive for autonomy, having been this type of child at one time.

We occasionally err in not being more vigilant about paying attention to the details, mind. But mostly it works out pretty well.

Well, we could go back and forth on microparenting stuff here, but rest assured that we do try to give her as much freedom as possible while also watching out for her best interest (eg--she would like to stay up till all hours reading, but she is a very unpleasant person the next day if she does that, so no). And as with everyone else here, I'm sure, her needs and desires have to subsumed to the larger family needs at times, so she may want to stay home and do something, but the fact is that DH and I need to go to XYZ place and I don't consider her old enough to stay home alone for four hours, etc. Or, she doesn't like what's for dinner and wants to cook her own meal using a new cookbook, but I really don't have the patience or time at that moment because we need to get out the door to another activity. You can imagine. It's stuff that isn't exactly unreasonable, per se, and could work if one was an adult, but isn't really practical for a child. And it's just life. KWIM? Yeah. It's hard to get around.

We do tell my DD when to go to bed on school nights, but I suppose even that's a boundary, because she can do whatever she likes up to that time.

As far as providing food choices, here's how it works in our family, feel free to incorporate/disregard anything you see. If our DD7 doesn't like what's for dinner, she has a number of options, though these are now limited to the quickie variety (quesadilla/sandwich/microwavables/leftovers/etc.) because DW already spent all that time on something else. DW also incorporates some simple accommodations for DD when she cooks. For example, rice sides are always either rice pilaf or Spanish rice, because those are the ones DD likes. If DW is incorporating ingredients DD likes (like meat or tomato sauce) with those she doesn't (like potatoes or mushrooms), and it can't be picked out easily, she'll set aside a small amount without that ingredient for DD. Just little stuff. Whenever it's a new food, the only thing we ask is that she try it.

And on the nights where DW doesn't have a plan, and we have the dinner conversation, we invite DD to participate (though "What should we have for dinner?" is usually immediately followed by "No, not Taco Bell."). So she has a voice in the process, even if we don't pick any of her suggestions, which is fine, because we don't always pick mine or DW's, either.

Obviously we all have our wants subsumed by the needs of the family unit at various times (DD just spent 4 hours at a car dealership), and there has to be some give and take on everyone's part. But it's so easy for parents to forget to give in to the child at times, or to negotiate so you both still get what you want. For example, when your DD comes to you with a recipe she wants to try, that's a good activity she has chosen for herself. So if you have to tell her "no" because it's not a good time, are you giving her an alternative time?

Another suggestion: the "yet another activity" comment suggests that maybe there are too many structured, scheduled activities, so that's something to think about. Free play is a vital component of child development, and an over-scheduled child would definitely feel stressed and controlled, so this might be the underlying source of her reaction. Having more time in the week would relieve stress on you, too.

No, no, not "yet another activity." "Another activity." Not to nitpick, but we are huge on free play here. DD takes no lessons at all, actually (may have gone overboard here) and is in only one very low-key school-year activity and a few after-school clubs (chess, art). Regardless, I actually don't want to get into "How can we give DD more autonomy?" because that's something I am actively considering at all times and it would be repetitive to get into here when no one knows our parenting practices, so that part isn't really where I want the thread to go (she said as politely as possible).

I'm not saying what I want him to do with his life as an adult. I am fulfilling his immediate desire in a fantasy. It helps him understand that I HEAR him, that I GET him in the moment. He knows that its not reasonable or realistic even, and he knows that after too long on the PC he is a grumpy and tired kid. But he loves that I understand how he is feeling right there. And I do get it because I have on occasion played a good computer game till 3am, or eaten cake for breakfast, or spent the day in my pajamas or whatever.

As adults we have the choice. Kids dont really. and thats often all they want. To know that we get how they are feeling in that moment.

I know I'm coming to this discussion late and I have only read the first half of the posts, but I totally identified with this feeling when I was a kid.

I used to hate to play in the front yard when I was 6 or 7 because, if I did, the neighbors would see me and think I was a kid. Silly, I know, but I was very serious about it. Also didn't want to order Happy Meals at McDonald's even though I wanted everything in a Happy Meal. I just didn't want people to see me acting like a kid.

What I really wanted, though, was to be taken seriously. I didn't want my thoughts and ideas dismissed by adults and my much older siblings just because I was a kid. I didn't want to be told that I was wrong about things because I wasn't old enough or experienced to know better. I really wanted people to see and understand the unique ways I saw things and to take me seriously. The fact that I felt much older than I was had a lot to do with it, but also I've always just seen things from a different perspective and couldn't understand why others wouldn't take the time to listen to me just because I was a kid.

So, for me, it wasn't a freedom thing or a rule thing or a can't-wait-to-be-an-adult thing, it was just that, in my mind, I was not a little kid and I wanted to be respected and treated like the thoughtful person that I was.

Thanks, mnmom--you know, I really think that is some of what DD is feeling as well. She desperately wants to be taken seriously.

It was great reading the posts here and seeing that other parents also have kids that think they are older. My 2 1/2 year old thinks he is so mature and makes comments like "I don't want to be around kids today" He looks at kids his own age like they are babies and annoying him. It is kind of funny but I don't know how this or going to work out for him socially down the road.