Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Help Please?

Hi there everyone. I am frustrated beyond belief at the current situation right now and I don't know what to do. I hope someone may have some good advice. Here's the story, it's long:

I am mother to 3 children, 16 years old (boy), 6 (boy) and 5 (girl). I am married and a stay at home mom, my husband is a mailman. My oldest has a different father but the younger 2 are his. We are both "gifted". I was in gifted classes (the first ones in Ohio!) but my husband was not because he is a bit older than me so didn't get the chance.

My oldest son was identified as gifted in 3rd grade. I knew he was smart and had such a vocabulary.. so mature for his age, but I never pushed him. The school figured it out on their own.

My younger son (6 yrs old) is a whole other ballgame. He was crawling to me as a baby, bringing me blocks to tell him what the letters and numbers and shapes were on them. HE did it, HE brought them to me. He couldn't even talk but wanted to learn. I have never seen anything like it.

The younger son (6 yrs old) continued to amaze me as he grew, constantly asking me questions and wanting to learn. He knew how to read basic things at age 3. He knew some beginning math as well. I never pushed him one bit, it was all him wanting to learn.

We put him in preschool because he kept wanting to learn and I had a 2 yr old to deal with so I figured the preschool would be better able to teach him than me. They (there were 3 teachers there) didn't believe us when we told them he could read already... Until they had him class. Then they were calling him their "genius", I kid you not! They all loved him, he was so cute and they were amazed by him.

We moved from Ohio to Montana when he was 4. He wouldn't have been 5 until after the kindergarten cut-off date so I asked the school to please test him and explained how unique he was. They did test him, and he passed. They didn't want to put him in because his birthday was one month past the cut-off but I explained to the principal and showed her his preschool records and the kindergarten readiness test. She let him in, even though they *never* do that.

He excelled in kindergarten, amazing his teacher so much that she said he was indeed gifted, and suggested we go to an A.G.A.T.E. conference here in Montana. My husband and I did go and his teacher was there. It was interesting, they were talking about advancing gifted students a grade and whether it was a good idea or not. There was one gifted student there and the speaker asked her how she felt about being skipped a grade and she said it was tough but she wouldn't change it.

This is pertinent because my son was already finished with Kindergarten and he hadn't even started yet. His teacher was sending him up to do first grade work with another teacher and at the end of the school year he was reading at a 2nd grade level, almost 3rd.

They didn't want to advance him to 2nd grade, instead they put him in a Montessori-style classroom of combined 1st and 2nd grades. It seemed like a great solution and it was... Until he almost finished 2nd grade in the middle of the school year. At that point the teacher stopped teaching my son. Just stopped. She put him with the rest of the 1st graders and didn't pull him aside to work with him anymore.

I have proof, it's even in her own report card that he was doing 2nd grade work. Yet she stopped and reverted back to first grade, my guess is simply because she didn't want to advance him. My son was coming home unhappy and never brought any schoolwork with him anymore so I knew something was wrong. I asked him about it and he finally told me that she was teaching him first grade stuff again. He was appalled, basically, that she was teaching him "stuff like 1+9=10 that I learned in kindergarten!" according to him.

I tried talking to the principal about it, but the original principal was no longer there and this was a new one, who stood up for his teacher and basically laughed in my face. I was so upset that I tried calling the Superintendent and she never called me back! I tried 3 times over a couple weeks!

Finally I just withdrew him and started homeschooling him the rest of the school year at a second grade level, having him do ixl.com for math, workbooks for spelling and writing (2nd and 3rd) and he read some every day (3rd grade + level books), plus videos too, all at 2nd grade (or higher). At the end he was done with 2nd grade so I had to start a little of 3rd.

He passed 2nd grade in my opinion (and according to the state standards on IXL for math) and I reported this to the state of Montana.

Now I wanted to try to get him into the other school district nearby, since the school he was in before was not making "adequate yearly progress" we have the right to put him somewhere else. So we talked to the principal of another school, explained the situation, and he didn't believe me about my son's abilities.

I brought him proof, I brought the report card from the teacher showing his scores in 2nd grade work (in the first part of the year before she quit doing it), I explained he was already found to be "gifted" and asked for him to please test him for entrance to 3rd grade in the fall.

He agreed to test him, but he still didn't believe me. Now finally testing time comes for my daughter to get tested for entrance to kindergarten (she is 5.. she was ready for kindergarten at 4 too, though not as advanced as my son, but they wouldn't let her enter early) and the principal says to schedule my son right after her. I said sure, sounds good.

Turns out he set him up to test with the KINDERGARTEN TEACHER using some lame "gesell" test. Testing a kid that is supposed to enter 3rd grade with a test designed for kindergarten kids? Not to mention the fact that when I looked up online what it was, I found many bad reviews, including scientific reviews saying it's not a good tool for placing children. I let her test him with it, though, even though I thought it was very weird.

The teacher messed up the questions she asked him, she had to get extra tests that she did not use with my daughter and had to consult her booklet to ask him "properly". I asked her when was he going to get tested for 3rd grade and she got all flustered and defensive for some reason, and I believe this is the teacher who said it's "impossible" for an almost 7 year old kid to enter 3rd grade in a huffy tone while we were at a school function.

She showed me the "age" rating sheet she would be using and pointed between 6 and 7 and she didn't even score the dang thing. She had it in her head already that she would place him where his age was. I felt this was what she was going to do and I was right.

The principal called today and said she suggested FIRST GRADE for him. Knowing that he had already been in a combined 1st and 2nd grade class at another public school and that I had finished homeschooling him in 2nd. The principal was trying to say that it's showing his "social readiness" but that's hogwash! He's absolutely more mature than other kids his age, he watches shows on tv that no other 6-7 year old kids watch and reads things other 6-7 year old kids would not be interested in reading yet. I know my son.

I also looked up the Gesell tests, as I stated before, and there is more than one part to the test. They are supposed to use a "parent questionnaire" as part of it to get an idea of how the child behaves with the parent and they never gave us any such questionnaire.

It appears they just use this fake "test" as a way to pick and choose who goes to their school and when. I believe they push everyone back in order to get higher state test scores. It's absolutely disgusting. My husband says they just don't want to deal with a kid as advanced as he is because it's so much work. What's funny is they have to help the kids with learning disabilities, shouldn't they help kids with exceptional abilities as well?!

My husband and I talked to this principal for almost an hour and he insists that so many parents think their kids are exceptional and special and he hears it all the time... But I have PROOF! What the heck?? I am definitely not lying about his abilities! I asked him if he's ever had to put a kid in 3rd grade coming from homeschool and he said "Well, no..". He told us he would test our son for entrance to 3rd grade and instead gave him a Kindergarten test? At the end of the conversation he said he'd think about what to do about this and call back tomorrow. We'll see...

What can I do? I really wanted my kids to go to this school together. It seems like he just doesn't want my kids to go to the school, yet it IS a public school and they are completely entitled to go there due to the other school's failure to meet AYP.

Is anyone here from Montana and can help me? My husband suggested I contact someone from AGATE to see and I will do so, but I thought I could try here as well. I know that if these kids don't get challenged they will be bored and they will lose their love of learning. What is wrong with our country when we stop wanting to excel??

I'm sorry this is happening to you - so frustrating! I am not from Montana, but I would urge you to contact someone from AGATE for help on what to do next. I think Tamara Fisher, who writes the Unwrapping the Gifted blog, is on the board with AGATE. She gets gifted.

I would start requesting things in writing to the schools/superintendent, etc. Look up all the policies in your district - do they have an acceleration policy and are they following it? I'm sorry I don't have time to write more now, but it seems like you need to start getting a paper trail. Good luck!

I'm thinking that you might get further if you try two things:

1) First check as to whether there is a district GT coordinator with whom you can consult and find out what type of test results they are willing to consider when placing a child.

2) Get some quantitative proof and not just teacher and parent assessments. Can you have him take an achievement test that will allow him to show above grade level achievement such as MAPs, WJ, or WIAT? The MAPs might be a good way to go b/c it is really comparing apples to apples: a 7 y/o who gets a 240 is showing the same functional level as an 11 y/o who gets a 240. Other achievement tests will give you something like a grade equivalent that shows more how a typical 11 y/o would have done on a test designed for a 7 y/o, for instance.

I'd also look into IQ testing or some sort of group ability test other than what they've given if you can afford to do so. I, personally, greatly prefer IQ tests to group tests, but the group tests are a lot less expensive.

Advocating for proper placement can be extremely frustrating, but it might help to try to think through how this may all appear from the principal and school staff's point of view. This is just my experience, so take it fwiw (not much lol!)... also please know I'm not saying this is true of your child, but instead I suspect something like this may be shaping the principal's reaction to your request. When my children were in preschool and K-1 it seemed like we were surrounded by parents who were convinced their children were brilliantly gifted, quite a few of them had children who were reading while still in preschool, and most of them were pushing for gifted program services at school when they entered K. By the time my kids were in 2nd grade, most of those parents no longer mentioned anything about "gifted", there children were no longer far ahead of the bell curve in reading, and ultimately very few of them made it into the gifted program in our school district. It doesn't mean they aren't bright kids, and it doesn't mean that gifted kids somehow "level off" in school - it simply means that the school is most likely hearing from quite a few parents that their just-starting school K-1 kid is unusually gifted and needs support - and that ultimately, many of those kids probably fall out in the top 80% of the class, but not the top 95-99th % of the class. I think you may also potentially run into a bit of bias against home-schooling, as I've seen that in some of my friends who are educators. Not all educators have that bias, and I've known *many* amazing kids who were home-schooled - but it's a possibility.

Another thought - let's say that the principal fully believes that your ds has mastered all the 2nd grade curriculum while at home, he might still be resistant to skip him because he feels that he's perhaps mastered it under unusual circumstances and therefore isn't convinced he'd continue with the same progress once back in the classroom. He might also believe that under the same circumstances, many of his other students could also advance faster than the curriculum allows. Perhaps he believes that at his school classes are already working ahead of grade level or differentiation is good.

Given all of that, I second everything Cricket2 said - hard data is difficult to argue. I would also put future communication re testing etc to the school in writing (email is ok).

Hang in there and keep advocating!

polarbear

Thank you Cricket2, I called the superintendent's office today and his secretary was understanding and I asked her if I could possibly get an IQ test from a psychologist and use that. She said she didn't know, but she said these schools have the right to turn kids away if they want to, even though the other one is failing AYP. I just don't get it.

Polarbear, I understand that almost all parents think their kids are exceptional, but this one truly is and he was already in Kindergarten and identified as gifted there, in public school, as gifted. They passed him from Kindergarten to a combined class of 1st and 2 graders rather than skip him straight to 2nd grade. That was the problem. This principal of the school I wanted to put him in said he needed to go BACK to 1st grade, which is so insane I can't even fathom it.

There's a lot of politics in these small, rural towns, and I ruffled feathers by complaining. He told me today when he called me back that I "burned bridges" and that I "made a name" for myself in this town and placing my kids anywhere was going to be a struggle. I was like.. WHAT THE..???

I told my husband what he said and boy, was he mad... And he never gets mad. He went to the Superintendent's office and he plans on calling our congressmen if need be to get something done about this situation and the total un-professionalism of the principal.

I am so sorry to hear this story! I don't have a magic answer, but I have some questions for you that I had to think about when we went through a similar situation.

How badly do you want the children in this school? Is it worth paying for an IQ test even though they might not take it? Are you worried that even if you get in the correct grade that the teachers may not want the child there? As sad as that is to say, I saw it happen to my friends son.

In other words- is it worth it to fight this much? How does your child feel? Would you consider homeschooling or a private school or charter school?

Nobody can answer these questions except you and your husband. Every situation is different. My family chose the homeschool route and it feels great for us to NOT have to deal with schools. However, that is not the correct choice for everybody.

I wish you luck with this and I wish I could help- I can only send virtual hugs!

Thank you 3timemom, I didn't think after what happened it would be a good place to put my children because people tend to hold grudges.

Luckily, I looked at another nearby school that is actually one of the top rated in the state (and better than the original I was going to put them in) and they actually have a few gifted kids there, two whom are boys in 2nd grade doing work at a 5th-8th grade level.

The school is so small they don't even have a lunchroom let alone a gifted program, but because of this the kids all get serious individualized lessons and that is why the scores are so great, I bet.

The principal of that school did have issues with a child his age entering 3rd grade, but I said hey, I'm flexible, as long as he's getting the work and the challenge he needs, which is 3rd grade work, I'm fine with him being in 2nd, especially since the other 2 gifted kids are in that grade as well.

I'm very happy this school accepted them and understood the issues I was having with the local public school. So, all is well now! I have to drive them a little bit farther but it's only a few miles so not a big deal.

It's still sad that politics are invading almost all of our public schools like this... Something MUST be done about it.