Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Crying over son's behavior... any advice?

My son (3 years old - will be 4 in a couple of months) I think has me to my breaking point. I'm sitting at my computer crying because I feel so frustrated and incompetent. He's been "kicked out" of two preschools already. He's home with me for the summer and he is supposed to start a private gifted school in the fall. I have little hope that it will go well come this fall.

He is so oppositional. It feels really extreme. No matter what we tell him, he wants the opposite. He BEGGED me to sign him up for this art class. After a couple of weeks of this, we all finally agreed to let him go. We signed him up. Literally, as soon as we signed him up he said he didn't want to go. This morning, as we tried to take him to class he threw a major major fit... so we couldn't take him. (It would be physically impossible to remove him from the car seat and also unfair to the teacher and other kids to send him in there even if we could.)

I feel like such a failure as a parent. I don't understand why he acts like this. We've been to a psychologist that evaluated him and said it was a combo of his extreme intelligence and his extreme stubborness/willfullness/self-directedness. I don't know how do make this better. I've read so many books. We try to be very consistent with our parenting and discipline.

In contrast, our 2 year old daughter - who is also extremely gifted but has none of the behavior issues - is so EASY. She does what we ask. She's good natured and just... easy!

I just feel so frustrated and so at-a-loss. My husband used to joke about military school, but he isn't really "joking" about it any more.

I guess I just wanted to vent, but I'm very open to hearing any advice!!! Thank you...

I just ordered "Transforming the Difficult Child" - a 6 hour seminar on DVD. I saw it recommended by Grinity in another thread and thought it sounded promising. We'll see...

I feel so desperate for any kind of guidance. I must be doing something wrong, there must be something I can do better to make this better for my family.

I should also add that my son is a good kid in general. He is never intentionally hurtful, never malicious. He is just very very very intense. He loves to argue. He likes to be in control (or think he is). He doesn't respect authority.

Hugs. I hear you. I have one just like this. As in your case, I also have a second child who is also gifted but who is not like this. Parenting him is a cakewalk by comparison.

My DD has been diagnosed with anxiety and depression, but I am not absolutely sure the diagnoses are correct or that they are the true root of the behavior. I know how you feel and I know how hard it is. We were making the military school jokes ourselves last weekend.

I will ask if you think he could be anxious. I do think DD's anxiety causes her to want to be in control of every situation, so in that sense I feel it does influence her behavior.

My daughter was the same!! Up until she passed 6 or 7 (she's 9 now) I thought I'd lose my mind.

One example: we had a FOUR hour stand-off when she was 3 yrs old, about saying "sorry". She refused! I had an intuitive sense that this was a battle I needed to pick, so I stuck to my guns. She screamed and stomped and belligerently defied me for FOUR hours. OMGOSH. She finally realized that I wasn't going to change my mind and if she wanted out of her room, she'd have to say sorry, so she did. (I can't even remember what the sorry was for, lol).

She's still extremely intense, sensitive and reactive, but not nearly as stubborn with me. As she has aged she's also learned to pick her battles.

Hang in there. You're not alone It gets better...

My middle DS, (happy, productive 26 yr old now) was this way and my husband and I did spend many years feeling like we were going a bit crazy! He seemed gifted but finances were too tight to get him tested. After a horrible experience in one school we were fortunate to find a perfect match in a private school (on scholarship) that guided every child to their very highest academic abilities while also requiring them to develop good character. Long story short...with him he basically wanted to be treated like an adult. We tailored our parenting style with him to give him as much opened minded respect as was safe. I have to add that as soon as he started high school, the "challenging everything any adult said" attitude eased off. I always felt he was a passionate, super sensitive, gifted person who thought he was an adult trapped in a child's body! If we treated him in a way that he felt was fair, we all got along.

I also want to add that the post a couple of months ago on this board about being an introvert really made a difference in our family regarding my dear GD age 4. She also has spent her short life challenging "authority." However upon realizing that she was an extreme introvert we all changed how we interact and guide her. The difference in her ability to get along with the world is amazing! She even walked onto the stage to accept her Preschool diploma the other day. Even a few months ago this would have ended in first freezing and then a huge screaming public meltdown. Your story about the art classes made me think of her. An introvert really does want to participate, but often times physically cannot face the situation...which if misunderstood can end in a tantrum.

Overall I just want to add that I really feel for your situation, sweetpeas. But if you can figure out what works best for THIS child, then go with that parenting style. Hang in there, it DOES get better!

Hang in there, Sweetpeas! There is a long list of parents ahead of you whose preschoolers had "behavior issues". That intensity is a gift, but so challenging to parent!

When DD was about that age, her psych sat with her and together they made a workbook that she would fill out a page of each night. Essentially it was a scale from "happy to sad" and she would have to reflect on how she had felt at different times of day, about 3-4 times a day. This morning I was really happy, so she would circle that end. "tonight I was really mad that I had to ...." so she would circle that end. She would also have to write down what had happened with the associated feeling. I did it with her. It helped us talk about things, pinpoint things that made her angry/anxious/sad, and it helped her understand herself. Sort of like a diary, but more structured.

Oh my goodness!! I just re-read the part of your post re: the art class. My daughter was THE SAME! In her case it was skating, and she begged and begged (and would become FRANTIC if we mentioned cancelling it). She was desperate to skate! Once we got there, however, she wouldn't go on the ice. The teacher would give me this nasty look, like "why are you forcing her?" ...it was so frustrating!! We finally found a solution: we would arrive at least 20, 25 minutes early to give her time to adjust. She had a specific routine that she had to go through each time (ie. walk to the vending machines, sit and sip water, walk to the notice board, etc etc) before she could skate... very OCD-like. She doesn't have OCD, but she does have anxiety.

What if you brought your son early to art class? Allow at least :30 to ease him into the building. It's maddening... but it worked for my daughter. I was so frustrated/exhausted, looking around at all these "typical" 4 year olds who walked quietly in, 5 minutes before class... meanwhile my amazing daughter who had all those early milestones and is so advanced... was SUCH a handful!! sigh.

Ultramarina has a good point - anxiety can cause defiance as they try and obtain control. My daughter's grade 2 teacher was the first one to point this out to me, and I think she hit the nail right on the head.

My daughter's anxiety issues have dramatically improved as she's aged. Suffice to say there has been a direct correlation between her level of anxiety and her level of obstinance and volatility, all of which have decreased as she's matured.

At nine, she's happy, well adjusted, the second youngest in a gr. 4/5 French Immersion split (there are kids in her class almost 2 years older), and she's in the gifted math program. She's finally happy She still has intensity and hyper-sensitivities, but they resolve SO much faster now. She also has moments of atypical anxiety, but they're isolated and situation-specific, rather than being a constant "dull roar" of nerves.

One more thing - don't ever blame yourself!! Look at it this way: your son has his intelligence "volume turned up" ...unfortunately this means that other "volumes" are turned up as well. These kids are highly reactive, sensitive and intense simply because they have more neurons firing. It's not your fault.

Good for you sweetpeas, I think you'll get a lot out of the DVD. I would caution that the DVD is from 2004 and their idea of 'time out' has evolved quite a bit since then, so I would recommend to order Lisa Bravo's 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' to have on hand as a way to get caught up on the 'how to's of the new time out system.

I'd also caution that as much as I love those folks, I don't love their 'anti-medication' perspective. As far as I can tell, some kids use this and don't need medication any more, but other kids benifit tremendously from a combination of this approach and medication.

Anxiety can certianly go hand in had with a lack of recognition of athority. My son just hated being treated 'like a baby' right from the beginning. It does get better in part because once kids grow to middle school age everyone expects them to be moody and have 'minds of their own.'

As to why your dd has it easier, remember that 1) she has 'girl biology' which is often (not always) easier going and also less 'into' confrontation. Keep an eye on her. She may want what she wants just as strongly as her brother, but may be better equipped to go behind your back (at some age) to get it.
2) She has her older brother to 'go to the trouble' of creating excitement in the house, thus saving her the bother. When you start the approach outlined in 'Transforming' be sure to include her, to prevent her from feeling that she has to act out to get back to what she is used to.

It will get better!
Grinity

Yep, I just had an "art class" moment with a friend at swimming lessons. Her DD5 and my DS5 are friends from preschool and were excited to be in the same swim class. However, the first day of class her DD5 became instantly overwhelmed, cried and refused to participate. My friend was furious because she felt her DD was being defiant. As an outsider (it's easier to be more reasonable with someone else's kids :)), I suggested DD was overwhelmed to the point of shut-down, which is defiant as a means of self-preservation. I suggested it would be a success even if her DD only set with her feet in and watched. Luckily, the next session was much easier with her DD...and we just hot home from lessons where she's thriving!

Your DS may need to observe classes before participating, even for many sessions . The workbook you ordered is great, as is the book it's based upon by Howard Glasser. I thinks it will help take a new approach with DS' scting out. Don't blame yourself ...kids can be truly awesome and horrifically terrible all independent of their parents.

We feel your pain with DD4, but have high hopes in the Transforming book we just bought. We finally realized that the parenting techniques that worked for DD8 do not work so well for DD4.

What's more, we are only really realizing how terribly difficult it has been for DD8 living with the constant battles, ear-piercing screams, and exhausted and cranky parents. No wonder why she asked us last night, "Why did you even want a second child?" We try to answer it diplomatically.

It's hard not to feel like a bad parent when your friends don't have these issues. It's worse and sometimes hopeless feeling when you thought you had already figured it out with your first one, who was supposedly intense.

There are some bright moments, however. I can now picture that phrase "spitting mad" with perfect clarity. When DD4 is down for the count, collapsed on the stairs with no ammunition left to throw, she summons her Maori war face and spits--sometimes the ground, but usually on her chin because she's not very good at spitting. Bad, yes, but not as bad as her old trademark victory pee in the timeout high chair.

We have learned to count our blessings!

((nodding head))

Thank you all so much. I am feeling much better today and trying to keep things in perspective. To each of you that replied - I really can't thank you enough. I'm very grateful for the support, advice, and commiseration.

He is behaving beautifully today, I think because he knows he went too far yesterday. I'm not going to over-analyze it, though. I'm just going to enjoy it. I think I'll take advantage of his good behavior and take the kids out to a museum today.

Awesome! Enjoy the day.

Lol... victory pee ... I need to find that sense of humor when my son has his fits =]

Hugs, sweatpeas! My DD3 is less oppositional than what you describe in your son (probably gender-- she's super strong willed--interesting comment above, Grinity!), but OMG, the sensitivity! The intensity! The hours we spend discussing emotions! She can be SO EMBARRASSING in public sometimes. It's NOT you. Hang in there!

oh wow you described Aiden a while back!

Anxiety, a certain amount of depression and helplessness. Added to a dash of perfectionism and intensity.

For any new activity he does, we need to get there early to give him a chance to wind up into it. He loves to see the kids arriving, he loves to chat to the coaches and teachers beforehand, get a feel for the place (and find the loo!! haha)

Then he is fine. If we are late or rushed he is usually quite miserable all the way through. The only exception is his Chess lesson, which I find strange, but I will take it!

I have shed many a tear over his behaviour, anger, tantrums etc. And since we have made the changes to 1 - homeschool and 2 - give him more personal respect to allow him to make more of his own choices, he is happier, calmer and we have fewer outbursts and tantrums.

Having said that, I cannot WAIT for them to go away forever and ever!!

I haven't read all the responses but I agree with GrandmaSarah's post. DS4 was getting really difficult to deal with and I was crying daily. One day he was in timeout and said "I don't know why you put me here!!! It doesn't do any good!"

Right then and there I said "OK, that is fine. No more timeouts. From now on I will treat you like you are 7 and EXPECT Choices from you that reflect the behavior of a 7 year old". He looked stunned but pleased. From that moment things changed dramatically.

I really feel in many ways he felt belittled by the fact I was treating him like the 4 year old he really is...the fact is, he is not mentally like a 4 year old....not even close. The fact that I did treat him like 4 and all that entails made him angrier and angrier to the point that he was acting out, had angry outbursts multiple times a day.
I don't know what you do in your home but in case you don't, try telling him and treating him like the older child he mentally probably is. That means he will have to step up and make the right choices.

I just say, "You will have to make a 7 year old choice or I will have to start treating you like a 4 year old again". That is all it takes to get him back on track.

Instead of timeout I ask him to go to his room because behavior like that is not acceptable in our house. I tell him to come out when he is ready to make better choices.

Hang in there.