Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Frustrated and confused

We got our 4-year-old daughter tested (Dr. Ruf) on the SB-V back in December for an Early Entrance requirement for a school we're interested in. She scored a 141 and we are wait-listed for the school. Based off of that score we were also accepted into a public spanish immersion program that is 30 minutes away.

Our local district requires that they do their own testing for Early Entrance to Kindergarten so we did that testing today. They did the WPPSI-III and my daughter's score was 124 with the cutoff of 125 to be accepted.

I'm confused over that significant of a score difference. She didn't seem to be tired or in a bad mood today but the tester was only with her for about 40 minutes which was very different than when she took the SB-V and was with Dr. Ruf for an hour and a half.

Here are her scores...(I'm thankful I asked for a copy!)

Block design - Raw 20, Scaled 8
Information - Raw 29, scaled 17
Matrix Reasoning - Raw 20, scaled 16
Vocabulary - Raw 23, scaled 14
Picture Concepts - Raw 15, scaled 14
Word Reasoning - Raw 18, scaled 13
Coding, Raw 18, scaled 12

Verbal - 44, VIQ 129
Performance - 38, PIQ 116
Pr. Spd. 12
Full - 94, FSIQ 124

We didn't know for sure if we wanted to go with this school district anyway, but not having the option is frustrating and the scores make me very confused since they are so far off of the SB-V.

Any thoughts?

Call Dr. Ruf (well, fax the results first) and ask her for advice.

Good luck with the school you are waitlisted for.

When your DD did the WPPSI was she a young 4 or near her 5th birthday?

She did it today and she is 4 years, 8 months.

I could call Dr. Ruf, but I'm afraid I'll just be told I have to pay for an appointment since we did a score-only assessment with the SB-V.

I guess if it comes to that we'll do it but boy, is it expensive!

I have had two children sit both Wechsler tests and SBV and both of mine were far stronger on the SB5 NV section than the Wechsler PRI scales. Both of them struggled with any of the cartoon based subtests on the Wechsler tests. No idea why. So your DD may have had much stronger results on the SB5 NV section than she did on the Wechsler. The SB5 also does not test for speed really at all, while the coding test on the WPPSI is as much of a test of good behaviour as it is speed for some 4yr olds. My DD did it at 4yrs9mths, did each item twice (perfectly) in half the available time and watched the clock for the second half. She scored 10...

None of this tells you much about your DD, but it certainly is possible to get quite a difference between the two tests.

The Block Design score looks really low relative to the other scores, so I think I'd ask the psych who administered the test two questions:

1) Is he/she sure the scaled subtest score of 8 is correct (did the person scoring the test possibly convert the score incorrectly)?

2) If the subtest score is correct, what is the psych's impression of why the score is significantly lower? Was your dd paying good attention during that subtest? Did she show any signs of fine motor challenges getting in the way of manipulating the blocks? When was that subtest given relative to the others - was she possibly tired etc.

Note - I don't *think* this is the case with your dd, but fwiw, kids who have fine motor dysgraphia will sometimes score lower on block design and coding than on other WPSSI subtests. Your dd's coding score is still quite good, so that's why I don't suspect that fine motor dysgraphia is an issue, but both tests are timed (and the other subtests aren't - on the WISC - I don't know if it's the same on the WPSSI but I suspect it is). I'd be a little suspicious that her score is artificially lowered because she perhaps isn't used to time tests or she isn't a fast-moving kid when it comes to fine motor skills.... neither of which means she wouldn't be extremely successful in a gifted classroom.

You can also argue, er I mean, advocate to get her accepted to the program if you want her in it. Chances are there are going to be other parents with kids with even lower scores who will be squeaky wheels trying to get their kids into the program. You have two sets of good evidence to back up your dd's abilities - the SB plus... even though the score was lower on the WPPSI, it's significant to note that she missed the cutoff by *1* point in FSIQ. Her relatively slow response on the timed tests could have caused that very small difference in FSIQ. 1 point is most likely also within the potential error range for predicting IQ from the WPSSI at that FSIQ. If there are other things used to be considered for the program (teacher ratings or parent ratings or student work etc), and you have strong backup on those items, I'd turn in a written request asking that your dd be reconsidered for the program.

polarbear

I agree with polarbear. It seems like 90% of the lower scoring is coming from that one block design number. The rest of her scores are pretty consistently gifted. I suspect that with a comparable block design score, her overall IQ would be much closer to 130. It's a shame that one score can make such a difference. I'm surprised that the decision making process can't see past that obstruction in this case.

Thanks everyone, I was just going to let it go since it's not our first choice school anyway but I am now really questioning the block design score. Are blocks part of the SB-V? If so, what sub-test?

All of the paperwork for Early Entrance testing said "no exceptions" and our case was brought forward to the asst. superintendent who is holding firm to the decision. It's fine, we probably wouldn't have sent her there anyway but I'm just confused over the score!

I did however get in touch with the psychologist who administered the test and have asked some clarifying questions so hopefully I hear back soon.

There is block design in the SB5, but the child comes in at their level and does not have to do lots of simple (boring!) designs first. It also is not timed and I think it is in the WPPSI, it definitely is in the WISC.