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    #128276 04/26/12 02:06 PM
    Joined: Dec 2011
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    Can someone please help me interpret these scores?

    Bit of background...my dd is about to turn 8 and is in second grade. Last year the school did an IQ test because she was struggling with her reading. Her IQ was 123 and she scored the max on a few subtests like block design. The school told us that she didn't have a learning disability because her IQ was high, she was bright and would catch up.

    Fast forward, we are now living in GA and the school here did the CogAT test last Fall. She scored Verbal 93, Quantative 94, Nonverbal 60.
    We were concerned about the big gap there but the school said it wasn't a big deal, that she was bright and they wanted to test her for their gifted program.

    Well I just got the results from that and...
    ITBS:
    Total Reading 40
    Total Math 50
    Total Battery 59
    GES-3:
    Creativity 22

    I know that these are not extremely low test results but they are keep telling me that she is bright and smart, so why is she still struggling academically?
    The school doesn't seem concerned but I'd be lying if I said that it isn't frustrating as a parent watching your child struggle at school but keep being told how smart she is, that she was being tested for the gifted program, etc.

    Should I just let this go or should I push the school to test her for a learning disability?

    Louise

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    Personally, I would push the school. I know that not every child reads early or easily-even gifted kids-but it just seems unusual that a child who has a high Verbal score would be struggling to the point of the school performing an IQ test. You know your child best, and if you sense something wrong, it probably is.
    I have a son who is in 6th grade - he's extremely bright. We haven't had him IQ tested, but he is in gifted, and just took the SAT and rocked it. He has an IEP for speech and for expressive language. So, your school is insane to suggest that a student with a high IQ can't have a learning disability. You might want to post this on the 2E board (If I knew how to make this appear there, I would). My son's difficulties didn't show up on the regular tests and even the speech path didn't realize that it was a problem until I talked to her and she then did very specific testing.
    They must at least respond if you put a request in writing. I would make it clear that you feel that she has a learning disability and you are requesting a complete evaluation for an IEP.
    She is moving from the "learning to read" stage to the "reading to learn" once she gets into 3rd and 4th grade. Good literacy skills are essential.
    BTW, I don't think that the gap is a big deal, so I do agree with the school on that, but don't let the reading thing go....
    Good luck!

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    When your dd was tested by the school last year because she was struggling with reading, did they do any other type of testing to determine what the challenge was re reading? Did they find anything? I have two dds who struggled with reading for different reasons - both of which impacted their scores on IQ testing - for my older dd, the challenge was related to visual processing, and the impact on her IQ testing wasn't reflective of her true IQ but the impact of not being able to see well. For my other dd, the reason she was struggling with reading was due to a true discrepancy in abilities that's accurately reflected on IQ testing. My kids have also been screened for dyslexia, and that involves more than IQ testing.

    It's not true that children with high IQs can't have learning disabilities - two of my kiddos have high IQs and learning disabilities. It's also not true that kids that have high IQs can't have strugglings that impact their learning that *aren't* learning disabilities (for instance, my dd with the vision challenge doesn't have a learning disability but she was unable to learn how to read fluently until her vision challenge was resolved). What is a somewhat common experience among families with kids with challenges is that the testing provided at school is not as thorough as what you will get through private testing, and you usually get a more thorough explanation of the testing and what it means through private testing.

    It would be interesting to see what each of your dd's subtest scores were on her original IQ testing. If she maxed out "a few subtests" then she must have had average or below average scores on a few too - it might help to know if the discrepancies in scores on last year's testing matches the discrepancies on her CogAT.

    I'm not familiar with the ITBS, so I don't know what the mean & standard deviation are - so I can't tell you how her achievement measures up relative to her abilities. I can tell you that if you see lower achievement than IQ it *can* be a flag indicating some type of challenge, it can also be that the achievement scores aren't accurately reflecting your child's knowledge due to some type of challenge (for instance, my ds has a handwriting disability, so any type of timed fluency test that requires him to answer using handwriting does not match his ability to correctly answer the same questions in the same amount of time that he is able to if the test is given orally). The lower scores might also mean that on the day the achievement test is given your child wasn't feeling well or was distracted or daydreaming or whatever. OR - it might mean your child has a learning challenge of some type.

    So - in brief, you don't know for sure at this point in time what's up with the achievement scores. You do know that your dd had some struggles with reading early on. You know that the IQ/ability tests she's been given have discrepancies and scatter among subtests (this can be a red flag for LD). Given all of that, I'd be in favor of having more testing to try to understand what's going on.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    ps - fwiw, I don't necessarily agree with the school that the gap on the CogAT isn't a big deal. It might not be, but many of us with 2e kids have similar gaps, and they are in fact sometimes indications of something smile

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    ps - fwiw, I don't necessarily agree with the school that the gap on the CogAT isn't a big deal. It might not be, but many of us with 2e kids have similar gaps, and they are in fact sometimes indications of something

    I posted the opposite, and rather than confuse the OP, I wanted to clarify that I should have said, a big gap between verbal and nonverbal isn't necessarily a problem. It definitely could indicate a problem. The first time one of my kids did a nonverbal test, he scored poorly (although amazingly high on verbal) because he misunderstood/put way too much thought into it. I literally spent five minutes explaining the type of things they were looking for and after that, he always scored really well on nonverbal. Anyway, my reply wasn't clear and I absolutely agree with Polarbear that it could signify a problem. I guess I was just more incensed by their response on the other issue.

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    Louise, I would also suggest going to see a vision specialist. Our son had a similar experience, IQ in the top 76% but state testing scores in the bottom 25%. The school did their evaluation and we were told NVLD and possibly ADD/ADHD. Being an analyst, I researched both conditions and neither really fit in my view. So we kept pushing. An OT suggested a vision check (not the same as the eye chart standard testing) and we discovered he had a condition where his eyes did not track properly. Six months of vision therapy and he is now performing on testing and reading at levels consistent with his IQ. It was a life-changing experience. Unfortunately, it took his more than 2 years to find the source of the problem and he missed some very formative years. I wrote a rather lengthy article about our experience and would gladly share it with anyone who thinks their child may be having vision issues.

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