Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Psychologist "diagnosis" - no school will work

As many of you were so helpful when I was here talking about the behavior problems my DS was having at Montessori, I thought I'd give an update. Just a quick recap: he was getting in trouble for not following rules, having disinterest in his peers, and even hitting and kicking! Basically, he was very difficult to have in the classroom. The Montessori teacher and head of the school were pushing for us to investigate medication.

As of right now, we are pulling DS out of the Montessori and he'll stay home with me until he starts the new preschool (a private gifted school) in the fall. I am looking forward to his last day, honestly, because every day he is there I am just waiting for a phone call to go and pick him up.

But he is really trying, and since we improved communications with the school (thanks, in no small part, to Grinity's suggestion to provide them with a short little daily sheet to fill out for us) and started providing incentives for him to follow the rules, things have gotten a bit better. I am glad he can at least end his Montessori experience on a more positive note and at a natural break. But... yeah, he won't be coming back.

We asked our pediatrician for a recommendation to a behavior specialist, and she referred us to a pediatric psychologist. The psych met with us, and then later met with DS. I thought she seemed a bit cold at first, but she was fine and DS seemed to like her. I wasn't there for most of the evaluation time she had with DS, so I don't know everything that she did with him.

I just got a call from the psych with the results of her evaluation. She told me that DS was "very unique". She did a few tests (mostly play-based, I believe) and concluded that he was very highly gifted and also quite strong willed and self-directed. The combination, she explained, really made it not at all surprising that DS was having trouble in a preschool setting.

My husband and I were both surprised that she thought DS was so highly gifted. She talked about his language skills, his memory, and "incredible inferences" that he was able to make. We were also surprised as how she seemed to attribute much of his behavior issues to his giftedness. For example, it made sense to her that he wasn't interested in other children, but he did like interacting with adults.

The fact that he is so strong willed/stubborn and self-directed means that when he is involved in a project that he is interested in (usually of his own making) then he does NOT want to be pulled away to do something else. And this is where the "bad behavior" shows up. She could see him engaging in what she called "power struggles" even during her evaluation.

OK... and here is the part that will be keeping me up at night. She was glad to hear we are pulling him out of the Montessori, as that obviously isn't working for him. She is glad that we are sending him to a private gifted school (it is one she is familiar with) for the fall. HOWEVER... she told me that school might always be a major challenge for DS. His level of intelligence (and, again, I'm skeptical that she could really thoroughly evaluate his level of intelligence in the hour that she had with him) and his personality (strong-will and self directed) might make it extremely difficult to find a school that will work for him.

Not.

What.

I.

Wanted.

To.

Hear.

But... I'm also not surprised. You all have warned me of this many times on this board. But, I really didn't expect to hear those words from a psychologist. Especially one that seemed rather conservative.

Once again, I am typing a post here on this board while feeling exhausted and bewildered. Sorry if I am rambling or this doesn't make sense.

My husband is also in a bit of shock. He confided in my that he felt extremely guilty for even for a moment considering the recommendation of medication when the behavior issues appear to be due to a combination of personality and intelligence.

Thanks for letting me talk this all out here. I really don't know what to take from all of this. The psychologist wants to keep tabs on DS, but no therapy or treatment is needed. She said that if he has any problems at the new preschool in the fall that we need to get him in to see her (or a few other references she gave us). She made me feel like he will likely have problems at the new school... or any school for that matter. That the gifted school was great and they may be able to do well with him... but that he is well beyond 'gifted' and there really aren't any schools that are prepared to handle a kid like him.

Whaat? Really?!

I feel both validated and depressed. Mostly, though, just emotionally drained.

I really want to believe this private gifted school can indeed handle him, encourage him, and keep him engaged. I believe they've had a few PG kids pass through their doors. But... I think the psych was saying problem (if you can call it that) is not just how off-the-charts he is but also that he has such a strong-willed and self-directed personality. Challenging combo, to say the least.

Thank you for listening. I know many of you here understand what we are going through, and I so appreciate your support and feedback. This message board feels like the only place where I can talk so openly about these things.

If it gives you any comfort, we were in that spot with dd13 when she was younger and she has made it in public school but it hasn't been simple. The exact quote from our district GT coordinator when dd was 7 was,

"highly gifted kids don't last long in the public school system, have you considered homeschooling?"

That was followed, when I pressed further about options with,

"the higher ups in the district are philosophically opposed to meeting your daughter's needs."

My kiddo, too, has a unique personality but is generally a really neat person. She is amazingly single minded and directed, a very "old soul," for want of a better term, and very intense. We have changed schools a few times, homeschooled for a while, grade skipped, subject accelerated, been very involved in advocacy, etc. It is working to an extent, though, in public school.

The middle school years were actually quite good especially b/c the school GT coordinator went way, way out of her way to make it work. She called me every year to talk through teachers, put her in classes with specific kids who were a good fit, split her btwn "teams" of teachers to get her with the right ones, and really helped tremendously. She was underchallenged in certain areas and I see it more in retrospect now that she's in high school. However, it hasn't been such that we can't make it work.

The early years were somewhat harder b/c she was less mature herself and didn't deal well with poor fits. She cried, alienated other students and teachers, and dug her heels in. Now that she's older, she has a much more mature approach to things and is learning the social skills involved in finessing teachers you don't like, etc.

Just so you don't feel alone -

My older son was screened in kindergarten, and after it, we were told he would need to be moved to a school with full-day gifted special ed - that he would never function well in a public school.

My special ed chair for my younger son just asked me again yesterday if we'd considered a magnet technology school (which a horrid record for academics) for my son since public school was so difficult for him.

If you decide to, you can make it work, but it will also be a sort-of fit, and you will spend a great deal of time solving problems you never knew existed, negotiating truces with teachers who assume things about your child that might be true for 98% of the kids but not for yours, and cajoling and bribing your kid to just play the game well enough to get through the day.

We decided to not homeschool, because I thought the kids needed the rest of what school offered, but it has not been easy for a single year since my oldest started. I am often envious of parents who just show up for parent conferences and leave it all to their kids. As parents of highly gifted kids with the strong personalities that often coexist with that high IQ, we never have that option. But we got in that line when we had kids, so ...

I would really wait and see. Your son is only 3 years old, right? How can anyone really say that "no school will ever work." Who knows in a 3 year old? Maybe your son needs to mature a little more; maybe at 4 or 5 or 6, he can follow more rules in a group, etc.
For what it's worth- Montessori schools tend to be very unstructured. Maybe your son will do alot better with more structure- I don't mean telling him rigidly what to do. What I mean is- when my son was in a "real" Montessori, they wanted him in first grade to go in, make a list of things he would do, then do them. Well, he never did that! He wandered around the classroom, ultimately doing some math, and wasting the whole day.
In a good public school where they have some kind of structure, it's been alot better.

I would also take this with a grain of salt given that he's three and was not given an IQ test (right?) You will know more later. It's true that some kids are very hard to "fit" in school, but I get nervous when professionals make sweeping pronouncements like this about a toddler.

My DD is also verrrry strong willed and self-directed. Preschool was tough. Kindergarten had its moments. However, as she's matured, she's actually become a model student 95% of the time (the 5% is an occasional crying fit at school, but it's become quite rare). Home is another matter--but school, behaviorally, is okay. (Is it a great fit? Not necessarily...but is she getting kicked out of class? No. If you'd seen her in preschool, though, you might well have been worried.)

Schools will too work, some schools, sometimes. Parenting the gifted child just means you have to be more flexible and more adaptable. You just can't set the timer and walk away. Disclaimer: I get all my opinions off reading the Internet. You can try literally any school and hope for the best as you keep an eye on it and monitor for a bad fit situation. My dad said "just pick any school and show your kids that you value education because most teachers want to teach and if a child wants to learn they will learn anywhere". I kind of agree, in theory, and I kind of disagree, in theory. I remember many years being teachers helper, unpaid underage tutor. Now I don't call that the teacher teaching. A couple years I got a bad fit teacher. A couple years I got an engaging teacher for me. So that's why I kind of disagree in theory.
I just signed my kid up for public school pre-k. (I'll make another post about that). My mom asked why I don't put him in private school instead of losing all the work he's already done. The part that's relevant to this thread is that most of those mediocre-fit teachers I described above were in private schools- they're not that much more academic than public schools in my experience. The other two reasons were that all the good private schools here are Catholic and we're not: and I will be after schooling. I'm just going to send him to school because I think he'll like it (I did, mostly) and he'll go as long as he likes it and behaves himself.
I heard something similar to what you heard. Some gifted personnel told me that, "school will probably never meet the needs of a kid like that" when I told her that I completely believe he'll be able to write a book report independantly by the first grade. I just helped him write a three paragraph essay about his family last month and he's not in pre-k yet. Texas law says they can not enter public school using early entry and they can do "credit by examination" (skip a grade) up to one grade a year, beginning with skipping kindergarten. While I think that's less than efficient I still don't see where it hurts to try to send him, be flexible enough to pull him out if it's just not working, and even be not afraid to try again at a later date if he wants to because it will be a different teacher and a different situation. But I do wish they would test him with the MAP test and put him with similar ability groups in the different subjects according to his ability test results (heard about that here) and not ration grade skips on a schedule and only by whole grades. Who wants to skip kindergarten anyway? That's the fun year.

Ps, looking forward to- there's a ton of stuff around the country for gifted kids starting in middle school. But, like thE hubby says, gotta start saving up now because it all costs money.

That cracked me up!


Thank you, everyone, for your great responses. I agree that it is way too early to make such a sweeping statement. I believe the psychologist was just trying to prepare me. I don't think she was saying "definitely no school will ever work"... just that it is a possibility and we should be mentally prepared for that possibility. We are all hopeful that the new preschool in the fall will work out well. It's a pre-k, and most the kids will be about a year older than him - so maybe that will be a good thing.

He hasn't had a full IQ test yet. He did have a gifted screening to get into this new school. He was very bored with it and didn't even finish a couple of the subtests - but he still hit the ceilings for their scoring. They say their screening correlates well with the IQ tests they use for kindergarten on up - but I'm sorry that I don't even know the name of this screening test or the IQ test that they use.

He is very intense, and has been intense since literally day 1. I am sure his personality type would be difficult in some situations no matter his intellectual ability. But having both the intensity/strong will/self-drive that he has in addition to being so far ahead of his age-mates just spells out trouble in a lot of academic settings.

Maybe he'll mellow out a bit with age. Like you all say, this child is only three fer cryin' out loud!

I know... I'll admit that today the thought crossed my mind "I wonder if we'll move to Reno in 8 years" LOL! At least the Davidson Academy is free, although a move is a pretty major deal.

And, yeah, gifted kids can be very expensive.

Tahoe is a beautiful place!