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Does anyone know if there is a connection between dysgraphia and difficulty with keyboarding (typing) or playing a piano (or other musical instrument)? Keyboarding was recommended as an accommodation at school for DD's dysgraphia but she doesn't seem to like doing it (I have to keep reminding her at home to use 2 hands vs. hunt-and-peck with 1 finger). Also she had trouble recently with her piano class b/c the teacher wanted her to follow the fingering marked on the practice pieces but she was really pushing back. She did get a NEPSY score of 8 on imitating hand positions (still in the normal range) and overall NEPSY sensorimotor score of 102, which is 'average,' and 55th percentile. I'm beginning to think maybe she has fine motor trouble with all of these things, so that a keyboarding accommodation at school is not going to help too much, and we tried voice recognition software but it doesn't pick up her voice too well,
so I'm wondering whether I should be trying to figure something else out for an accommodation (like having her dictate stuff to me to type out for her until her voice matures enough to work with the voice software). But of course if she should be able to do it herself then I should work on that... I'm just starting to wonder whether there isn't more of a problem than we or the psychologist(s) recognized.

Dbat, interesting thought. My daughter's hand imitation score on the NEPSY was a 5 (5th percentile) and visual motor precision total completion time a 7 (16th percentile). Overall she scored 84th percentile because her finger tapping was so high.

The recommendation from the neuropsych was to get her typing ASAP and also to get her Dragon Speaking. We have not tried Dragon Speaking yet, but started in on teaching her to type.

DD9 started and dropped the flute last year, but our interpretation of her struggles was one of anxiety and perfectionism more than the coordination.

DD9 has not had a particularly difficult time learning to type, but we've not yet asked her to type anything except through the typing program. She's taking slow, plodding progress through the BBC typing program (http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/typing/), having worked at it 5 times a week for 10 minutes at a time for the last 3 months. I like the program because it's really methodical and teaches positioning without emphasizing the speed. It also doesn't make much of a big deal of errors -- you don't do anything like strike out or have to start over, you just fix it and move on. This last part is key for Miss Anxiety.

Dbat, our ds12 has dysgraphia that's due to Developmental Coordination Disorder (fine motor related), and typing is also very slow for him due to the DCD. However - it's faster than handwriting and he does get *some* of the benefits of a reduction in drain on working memory when writing (over handwriting). Like geofizz, when our ds was first diagnosed, the recommendation from his neuropsych was to teach him how to type first, then move him to voice recognition. One thing you can do with typing is to *not* insist that your child use traditional touch typing, but instead let them figure out their own version - it's ok if your child chooses to only use thumb and first-finger for instance. Also get them to practice as much as you can (this was a challenge for us!).

Re the piano - our ds actually plays piano relatively well and enjoys it... but his finger position looks odd and the joints in his fingers sometimes bend backwards... so it's a little weird! There are some children who have a vision challenge as a component of their dysgraphia, and just fwiw - my dd who had a vision challenge had a really tough time learning how to play piano until we had her vision corrected. Just something else to consider (as if any of us needed anything else to consider lol!).

Re Dragon - we had a tough time the first time around with ds when he tried to train it. We're giving it another try, this time having him read his favorite stories to it for extended periods of time, then going back and making corrections (this technique was recommended to us by a group that works with helping clients with disabilities use Dragon etc). Our ds also prefers the free Dragon app on the iPhone/iPad - you have to be online to use it because it uses an voice recognition online database, but the cool thing about having that online database is that it draws from soooo so very many voices (from what I've been told) that it is really good at voice recognition, no matter who is talking. It's also fairly forgiving of background noise - so it might be something else you could look into. We used to let our ds use audio-recording too, and he was allowed to turn in assignments that way (he used Garage Band on the Mac). And... fwiw... I still scribe for him quite a bit for homework, since his typing is so slow.

FWIW our ds had a low score on the NEPSY fine motor tasks; his lowest scores were on finger tapping, which is a symptom of fine motor dysgraphia.

Gotta run - hope that made sense!

polarbear

My 13-year-old son, who was diagnosed with developmental coordination disorder and dysgraphia several years ago, taught himself to type a long time ago. He can type about 65 wpm. I think he is even faster at texting on his iPhone. He uses his iPhone for taking notes. He once used it to type out answers to essay questions and emailed them to his teacher at the end of class.

When he started piano lessons at age 5 his fingers were weak and that seemed to be his biggest problem. I think his teacher lets him change the fingering sometimes to make it easier for him. She also stopped having him do the workbook because writing in it and drawing notes without going over the lines was a problem for him.

DD9.5 has dyslexic dysgraphia that was diagnosed at the beginning of this school year. She has had a long history of work resistance. It is a complicated web of 'is she bored vs. is she just not trying vs. does she not care'. When she received her diagnosis, it uncorked a lot of her bottled up feelings. She was able to tell us that she stopped trying to do her best in grade 2 when she came to the conclusion that her best would never be good enough. With her new accomodations, things are much different. BUT, she still needs to be encouraged to do her best... even with her enrichment work that is plenty challenging and interesting. She has such a detest for written work that we still have to convince her that she CAN do the work. Luckily, it is becoming easier and easier as she realizes how much typing helps her out. It will never be her preference to write/type her work. Her strengths are in verbal communication.

wow that sounds like DS! In the IEP, the OT actually said that it was important to do this now in K because it gets harder to remediate when they get older because you have to undo those attitudes - I hope we can get him seeing good work before he comes to the conclusion that his best could never be good enough, because I can absolutely see seeds of that already. Psyches are such fragile things, they need to be protected!!

DeHe

Thanks geofizz, polarbear, and LoriH--very useful information.

I will definitely try the online version of Dragon for DD--I had Googled
awhile ago and hadn't seen anything about that, and was getting very
frustrated because IMO DD enunciates very well and so I don't understand
what the problem is; Dragon works very well for me.

DD's piano teacher has been wonderful despite us quitting last week
just before "graduation" because the skill tests were getting too challenging
for her in the timeframe (plus she was sick for a week at a critical time and
wasn't really up to practicing). But she has all kinds of pamphlets in her
studio about LDs so I will mention it to her--she has been very supportive.
Isn't it wonderful when teachers are like that? Bless them, every one.

I must admit after this possibility occurred to me (that DD has more
'global' fine motor issues than I had appreciated, or that 'fine motor'
has a broader definition than I realized) that I am somewhat worried.
DD8 has had 6 evaluations so far (although only 2 very detailed) and
I thought we only had to worry about AS, ADHD, ODD, and dysgraphia.
I would think that if there were something else it would have been
picked up by now, but I will keep thinking about it and looking....

Thanks again!

Dbat, we were told by the folks we consulted with that the reason voice training Dragon most likely was so tough for our ds the first time around is that he watched as he talked to Dragon (while training) and tried to correct each word as it happened. The way we were advised to try this time around is to have ds read a favorite book (using the bluetooth headgear recorder) and to *totally ignore* what is being typed on the screen - instead have the laptop screen turned in the opposite direction while ds reads. He needs to get a lot of words read into the microphone, then he can go back and correct mistakes.

I don't know yet if it will work - we're too buried in homework this week to even try it - but we'll be trying it for sure in a few weeks when school is out for the summer

Also - re the never-ending list of acronyms and diagnoses... I think that what you might be running into is that symptoms of diagnoses overlap - our neuropsych has a Venn Diagram that she used to show us why our ds has symptoms that in his case are due to DCD but in other children are associated with ASD... I think there were three overlapping circles - DCD, ASD/PDD, ADHD... but don't remember for sure. I'll try to find it (someday lol!)... if I do find it I'll let you know. I'm guessing that for your dd, you aren't facing adding another diagnosis, but instead as she grows and as time goes by and as she gets farther along in school, you'll start seeing other symptoms associated with the diagnoses she already has. At least that's how our journey has been so far.

Hang in there!

polarbear

DCD was a new one for me, I had to google that. Uhhh, not DD in any way shape or form. But so interesting that the effects are so similar! We're still puzzled at the low finger imitation score. She thrives in ASL lessons!

Thanks for the info on Dragon... It's good to know what it takes to train it.

My son's piano teacher actually asked us to pull our son from lessons when he was five. She said he had enough natural musical talent that she didn't want him to get a skewed view of music because his fingers could physically not do yet what he needed to do the play the piano "right". He still has difficulty reading music but makes up his own songs, plays by ear, and plays drums in band at school. We had heard from other people that drums can sometimes be an issue for dysgraphic kids, but we haven't seen that with him. He has great rhythm and really enjoys it.

Dysgraphia is so much more than just difficulty writing. It has affected his ability to learn to ride a bike (still hasn't mastered that one at 12), tie shoes (mastered at 10), zip zippers (also mastered at 10) and many others.

But a diagnosis helps tremendously. At least you know dragon you're fighting.