Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion More behavior "issues"

Just wanted to pipe in for a second and say things will get better, even though it doesn't feel like it. My DS7 had a very hard time at 3yo in preschool. He was a PG kid and just couldn't handle the structure and slow pace of everything. We kept him in for 3 months and finally decided it wasn't worth it at all. He was never sent home or anything but they complained a lot, contacted us a lot,and he didn't really feel good about it and could care less about going either way. We tried again at 4yo and that was our worst experience ever. He was pretty much kicked out of their program (it'a crazy story which I won't go into that really had more to do with their program and lack of being able to take on a child that didn't fit into a perfect mold and was satisfied doing nothing academic at all). Then he went to another preschool program that was great because they let him do things above level...but they realized just how advanced he was while he was there and recommended Montessori. He then went to Montessori and actually did awesome there and loved it...no behavior concerns at all. We were worried about putting him in a public school at that point and did testing where they recommended homeschool or highly gifted schools...but we went with our regular public school who allowed him to skip K. He struggled some in first with behaviors...but he was 5yo and it was his first full day experience. He did a lot better in 2nd..barely any calls or reports of behaviors at all. Now 3rd is even better. So I just wanted to say that they do mature and I hope things improve. You know how wonderful your son and I agree that it is important to have others recognize that as well. The teacher has a lot to do with the whole program. I work in schools so I definitely know that well. Good luck and hope things turn out well!

: - ) I shed buckets of tears during the preschool years. I got the "chew you up and spit you out" in the pick up line quite often, and the other parents often quickly herded their children away from us. And the teacher wondered why the other students and my DD weren't meshing!

It does get better. First you learn more about your child and ease into parenting a child like that (my DD is a "straight to D child for sure!) and you develop a new normal (which sometimes feels like the only other people who can understand are the people behind the user names on this forum!)

And your child matures, and has more opportunities to channel their intellect and talents and energy. When my DD was 3 and 4 I used to just look at her sometimes and think the poor thing was one big, huge personality stuck in a little person's body!

Good luck and enjoy the ride!!

Is there any chance you could find a different preschool setting for your ds? My dd10 had a *horrendous* experience in preschool - at a school that her older brother had a great experience at. It was also a Montessori school - but that doesn't mean Montessori schools don't work well for kids (gifted or otherwise) - the reason I mention Montessori is that I think it's important to remember that even though a school in theory follows the Montessori philosophy, it's the staff and owners who ultimately set the tone and demeanor of the school. Just because a school is Montessori doesn't guarantee the staff is running the school in a way that will fit with your child, or even that the staff is necessarily qualified to be running a preschool. Likewise, just because one Montessori isn't a good fit for your child doesn't mean another won't be a good fit.

We were always getting called in about her behavior, and the director tried to convince us she must be deaf or have learning issues etc - it was always something. She wouldn't nap at school - that turned into her being perceived to be a problem child. She supposedly sat and just screamed at times when she was supposed to be in circle, things like that. I mentioned our dd's experience for a number of reasons. First and foremost - she's 10 now and she's doing great Soooo be assured - things may be a jumbled up mess of chaos now, but this too will pass Second, we finally saw the light and switched schools (to another Montessori fwiw) and our dd instantaneously morphed into a kid who never screamed, through fits, or had trouble napping at school. It was the environment... and we couldn't have changed it no matter how hard we'd tried at the previous school. Third - in hindsight, we really wish we had moved her out of that school THE MINUTE she started having troubles - because we found out some things later on, after she was old enough to talk well and communicate with us, that just absolutely made me livid to know they had happened to her (and we were able to verify that they happened from another staff member). Last reason, our dd wasn't without challenges, but we didn't know about all of them or understand the ones we knew about well, at the time. In our dd's case, much of her inability to nap was related to food allergies causing an upset stomach after lunch.... something we couldn't have understood until after we knew she had food allergies. She also doesn't have hearing problems, as the director suspected... but she did have a severe vision challenge which none of us recognized and which I suspect did add to her frustration and misbehaving at school. So, bottom line, the school was a horribly poor fit for her... but there were also signs there, hidden in behaviors and in what the school staff was observing, of things that were really concerns for our dd. It's possible you just have a bad fit for a preschool, or it's possible there is something more that's going on. Once you switch schools and have a chance to observe your ds in a different setting, you'll know more about what's really up. But you'll *never* be able to tease out challenges - IF they exist - in an environment that is contentious and where your ds has already been cast in the roll of "problem child" by the staff.

Sending you tons of good wishes,

polarbear

I think you should trust your instincts and your gut on this one. What purpose is it serving to keep him there?

I'm back again : - )

After reading polarbear's response, I guess it helped me weave what I said earlier about needing details about behaviors...what happened before, during, after...to help understand the child's behavior as it's related to the environment and gather evidence or information to help tease things out if needed.

Our two big things with DD were not realizing the correlation between behavior and her eating chocolate and red 40 dye because she didn't really eat that stuff at home (just school and kids' parties). If the detail was like...she's been fine all week, then a childs' parent brought cupcakes in and the kids ate them, and it's it strange..10 minutes later it was BAM!...maybe a light bulb would go off over time if there was a pattern. And the second thing was the double-vision which was related to looking away and having trouble navigating around the room.

Very specific behaviors and circumstances relate to honing in on any non-gifted issues your child might have.

Preschools (any schools) and teachers vary widely but if you know this early that your child is "different" definitely work with teachers and schools for decent communication of detailed facts (not just telling you and the child what went wrong and sending you on your way).

Okay I'm done!

I teared up reading these too. It's sad when folks are unhappy with a situation and don't know what to do about it.

This can be a sign that the work isn't at the right level for your son, or it could be a sign that he is gifted with ADHD. The way I look at it, there are lots of gifted kids with ADHD out there because their parents were able to use their Giftedness to compensate for their ADHD well enough to be fairly successful and live long enough to have families of their own. When you have him home this summer, you'll be able to try many levels of the same activity and see how much of this is poor fit. Here's a caution: Just like we parents of Gifted kids tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual thinking skills because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar, parents of kids with ADHD tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual level of non-tolerance for things not being just right, because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar. That was me anyway.

I'm just about to recommend Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook: An Interactive Guide to The Nurtured Heart Approach [Perfect Paperback] by Lisa Bravo and Howard Glasser
http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Workbook-Interactive/dp/0967050758

They have notes in there about how to turn teachers around into seeing the good in kids - basically a daily note, you make it and give them 7 xerox copies each week that says:

1) I joined the circle Great good somewhat none
2) I was kind to my friends Great good somewhat none
3) I did my works Great good somewhat none
Mommy and Daddy can be proud of me today because I ___________

Teachers are human, and we humans are vulnerable to 'confirmation bias.' see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

So in the note above, the first 3 are 'decoy' so that the teacher feels comfortable doing what they do - judging your child, but the 'Mommy and Daddy can be proud....' stuff is where the magic happens. But being open to looking for one simple thing about your kid to celebrate each day, the teacher will shift her perception and start having confirmation bias in the good direction.

The rest of the book is for you. It's quite possible that your son has 'no trouble' at your house becaue you are such a thoughtful and sensitive parent. (Happened at my house.) You may have even read, and implimented Raising Your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents Whose Child Is More Intense, Sensitive, Perceptive, Persistent, Energetic [Paperback] by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

Because you are probably gifted, sensitive, and intense, you may be able to keep the upsets to a minimum, even though your son is quite unable to deal with many situations where 'mere mortals' are running the show. That's where the workbook I mentioned above comes in very useful. It's a safe and sane way to figure out how to help you child grow inner resource enough to deal with situations where the environment isn't being carefully managed by a sensitive aware adult with plenty of time and motivation. They report that this style of parent has helped many kids with behaviors identical to ADHD grow to use their intensity for good and stop being a behavior problem without medication. Which is what attracted me to them in the first place. I would say that some kids can and some kids can't but that isn't the main point. The main point is that Parents of Intense Gifted kids need specialized disipline techniques, but cause their kids might not respond to regular disipline. Or regular discipline might make the problems worse!

Just like we parents of Gifted kids tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual thinking skills because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar, parents of kids with ADHD tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual level of non-tolerance for things not being just right, because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar. That was me anyway.



I don't blame you for wanting to take him out now, and I'm so glad to hear that you can take him out this summer. Because your DH isn't 'on board' and I can understand his point of view, I might suggest a compromise - try the workbook and daily note for 3 weeks. As long as the situation doesn't get worse, give it the full 3 weeks with the note, and then re-evaluate. You many have future opportunity to use the skills of interacting with teachers, so a 3 week 'educational experience' might be worth the hassle.


I completely agree with the poster that said for Montessori being a child-led education they sure have a TON of rules. So true. I think I had this idea that they were more flexible than what they really are.
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You will find that you can't tell a school by it's affiliation. Montessori is very based in their view of how children typically develop. When a (highly intelligent/wise/sensitive) director understand that difference between 'most' and 'all' then Montessori can work well for many gifted kids. But in the hands of a more 'concrete' thinking, the shades of grey are lost and Montessori can be instituded in a 'lockstep' way that really frustrates many gifted kids. The A then B then C THEN D, approach works for many kids, but frustrates the learners who WANT D NOW.

I agree. I saw this happen to my son in 2nd grade. I think that the note, used daily, will turn this around quickly, because it's clear that your son has a lot of strengths.

We all neeed a place to vent. That's the number one difficulty with have a child who is 'on their own developmental path.' Let us know how things turn out. We want your family to do well!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I totally understand the thing about Montessori and the rules. Seriously, I could not believe the number of rules in my son's class. He came from a daycare where the rules were be nice to people and property. Just getting to circle was a multiple step process that had to be in order the exact way. It was hanging a coat, changing shoes, and washing hands. Sounds simple but there was a specific way things had to be done, there was a line at each station (single file, no talking) and if anyone didn't walk between stations they had to go back to the one before. Circle was long. Sometimes forty minutes. Even though kids could pick their work, they had to do it exactly as the teachers wanted. You couldn't mix works either. Taking the "pink tower" and making snowmen who lived on the cutout of Pluto was frowned upon (despite it being great snowman habitat ;)).
Anyway, you are not the only one shocked by all the rules. I was admittedly uneducated about preschool philosophies when he enrolled. I just figured he'd be great anywhere because he loved learning. You'd think that would make school easy.

I agree with much of what everyone has said and I know how frustrating this is. One thought I had that just keeps popping into my head is how long is a 3 year old supposed to sit still. My DS's issues like the one's you describe did not really start for him until regular school. He went to play based preschool and while they had some group time, they had a lot of choices on what they wanted to do and that seemed to work for my DS. He still went to K a grade level or two above the other kids in both reading and math. I think it is right to consider what it is about your DS that does not make him fit fit their program, but also to think about what is not right with that program that does not fit your DS. 3 also seems really young for kids to start judging other kids to me - so the teachers must be doing a great job of convincing them that he is a trouble maker.

This is why we pulled Mr W. He was totally bored. Working at a 2nd grade level in Prek. And would not and could not "follow the rules." The other Kids will pick up on what adults feel even if the adults do not say it. If the "prblem child's" ego is strong enough, they will reject the adult and it then becomes a contest of wills, or they will regress. I do think they are harmed even in the first case and start to internalize the insinuation that they are troublemakers.

For example. I had a chance to observe Mr W with both his prek and the K classes together at an outing and Mr W was looking at everything, moving around a lot to get looks, and asked a ton of questions, and made comments. If you did not notice that he was very curious you would think he was misbehaving. There was just one other kid who moved around a bit and not at all to the degree he did. He completely circled the group looking at everything on the walls and in the displays. The other kids just stood around.

I am reminded on the time we looked at daycares for 1 year olds and the kids in his "room" looked drugged compared to him. This trend of his activity and mental awareness has continued in comparison with his peers.

The other thing is that DW and I are used to his level of energy but when he was younger it just exhausted us. Now we see it as normal. I can see how it would exhaust and exasperate another adult.

I can see how very easy it is for a PG kid to just withdraw.

Thank you all!!!

Grinity - if I could reach through the screen and give you a big hug, I would. I LOVE the idea of the daily worksheet for the teacher. It's brilliant! I just created the form and e-mailed the school to let them know about it. I'll send 5 along in his backpack on Monday. Hopefully they will actually fill them out. If they don't.... well, all the more reason to leave the school now.

Communication with his teacher hasn't been great, and I hope this will help.

I am really leaning heavily towards pulling him out for this summer and letting him start fresh in the Fall at the new pre-K school. I just have to convince my DH. But... we'll see. Maybe we will have a big turnaround here. My son is happy and well behaved when he is home with me - so, it seems logical to keep him at home.

Thank you all again, this thread has been a total sanity saver. I'm so grateful and touched that you all have taken the time to share your stories and suggestions. It means so much to me - and my husband too! THANK YOU!!!

I'll keep you all posted as things develop and as I undoubtedly need more advice.