My 3-year-old is enrolled in a montessori. He'll be going to a private gifted school next year for pre-K. In the last two months, we've had to pull him out of the school three times. He's had to stay home from school the next day. We've also had two meetings with his teacher and the head administrator at the school.

Yesterday, we were called to the school for a "brainstorming" session on how to help his behavior problems. It turned into a hour-long meeting of the teacher listing all the ways he misbehaves. He doesn't follow the rules. He doesn't follow instructions. He disrupts others work. He doesn't stay focused for long. He isn't making friends. Sometimes, he hits!

Yeah. It was a horrible meeting to have to sit in as a parent. I wanted to cry.

Then they really surprised me by suggesting that our son might benefit from medication. This wasn't at all the type of suggestion I would have expected from a Montessori.

We are going to meet with a pediatric psychologist, just to be safe and get another opinion. Our pediatrician, however, thinks the school is over-reacting and believes our son might just be acting out because he is bored with the materials. I don't know if this is true or not.

I had never suggested he was bored, but the school said 'he hasn't mastered all of our curriculum yet.' So I think they were anticipating I might suggest this was part of the issue. They say he reads at at least a 2nd grade level, but it's hard to know for sure because he doesn't sit and read long enough to really accurately measure it.

I feel just... UG. Sad, I guess. I don't know why he isn't connecting at all with his peers. This has been an ongoing issue. He plays well with his little sister (who is now 2) and has a lot of affection for adults. But kids... not so much.

I don't know what I expect you all to say. Maybe I'm just venting. I hate feeling like I'm a bad parent because my kid cannot be controlled in a classroom. Deep down, I believe he is OK. I really do. He is an intense kid, for sure. He has been since he was a newborn. But he's a good boy, very sweet and loving. He just gets stubborn sometimes and he does need to be engaged in something "interesting" if he's going to sit still for a project for more than a few minutes.

I am disappointed in the Montessori. I've become disheartened with them more lately than we were when he first started there. The teacher has told us that he needs to go through certain steps/stages to advance his coursework - he needs to go A - B - C - D.... but instead he WANTS to go straight to D. The teacher won't allow this, which I know is a point of frustration for both my son and the teacher.

But still... the hitting? I don't know why he is doing that. He doesn't hit at home. Just at school.

We are thinking about pulling him out at the end of the school year rather then letting him continue through the summer. Just let him hang out with me this summer and then be ready to start Pre-K at the new school in the fall. I don't know what the right thing to do is, though.

Someone, please just give me a hug and tell me it can get better!


PS- so sorry for all the typos in this post! I'm stealing a quick minute while the kids finish up eating supper!!

Well you pretty much described my son's pre-school experience. He had zero impulse control and was defiant of authority. I almost lost my job having to pick him up from school so much. His father and I were separating at the time so I'm sure that contributed. He actually told teachers he was going to be bad so I would lose my job so I had to stay home with him. It was a horrible & terrible time. Over 2 1/2 years (he's 6 now) I fought medication and tried gluten free, dairy free, organic, dye free any type of diet. Moderate success and I still limit sugar and go organic whenever I can. It was only after 2 years I relented and tried medication. For us it took a bit but it helps him. I'm glad I took the time to try every other option before I resorted to medication. However I only did so after meeting with a PHD in child psychology & a MD board certified in her field for 2 years. At 6 he's come so far. I even paid the PHD to observe a full school day to help figure out his school issues. They were invaluable in giving me advice on how to be the best parent I could be. DS6 has an IEP and his impulse control has improved greatly. His school district is wonderful and has provided support for both him and I at every stage. In the past weeks he's been evaluated for autism/aspergers and there's a possibility that while gifted he has some issues with social skill that have caused a lot of our problems.

I guess the point of my rambling is that it gets better. We're working on a plan to remove the medication after he's settled in the gifted program and we've got a solid IEP to support him. I read your post and remember how horrible those school meetings were. AWFUL! Everyday I felt like I was failing as a Mom. Even worse my kiddo being pointed out as the "bad" kid by children at the school. Watching him go through the guilt of having a bad day or a meltdown after he calmed down was heartbreaking.

Hang in there, my kiddo made it through just fine. He's not perfect and we still have rough days but persistence helps.

Thank you both for your responses!

What is confusing is that he is generally well behaved at home. He has his moments, for sure, but is is SO MUCH better at home then it sounds like he is at school.

We are trying to remain open minded about where all of this might lead up - whether some sort of therapy or even medication. But we really have a hard time accepting the idea of medicating a 3-year-old. It's good advice to exhaust all other avenues first, irishmaggie!

I'm so glad to hear that both of your kiddos are doing better now. I think a lot of this is just part of his personality and who he is. Giftedness may or may not have much to do with it. I don't know... we haven't been able to put our finger on what, exactly, is going on yet.

I hope this psychologist we are seeing next week will be able to offer some guidance.

I just want to say good luck, and ((HUGS)). I've been where you are. We had one year where we went through FIVE daycare providers before we found one who know what to do with DS8. DS8 is on meds (which have contributed to a massive improvement in his behavior) now but I know the environment was a big factor as well. He needed to have challenging things to do during the day.

Must agree with epoh! I've looked back too and realized at least one teacher (who he had when he was having the MOST trouble) often sought out conflict to show kiddo he had to play by her rules. Unfortunately with smart & stubborn kiddos "because I said so" doesn't always work. My son wasn't an angel but having a caregiver who's understanding and willing to work with the child's quirks (but still not be a pushover)is priceless. Sometimes I wonder though if we would have had as many problems if I'd gotten him into the excellent pre-school run by my school district that that he went to after leaving the school with the more dominant teacher. They had specialists on staff that a "daycare" can't afford and he actually had an IEP in pre-school. Does your area have a district preschool that deals with kids with disabilities? Not that your son is disabled in any way but our Special School district teacher was amazing in getting him back on track.

This sounds familiar. My son was a disaster through most of preschool. He started at age 2 and a half just two mornings per week. He would sometimes hit and bite other kids and even teachers. He seemed defensive a lot of the time when other kids (mostly) would come near him. He wouldn't follow certain directions, etc. I had to come pick him up once or twice and he spent some time in the office. When we moved, he seemed even worse in another preschool. Finally, after spending some time observing him and talking to the teacher, his behavior (which was very different at home) made sense. He had sensory issues that I never noticed at home. Home was quiet and not chaotic and preschool wasn't. He showed signs of oversensitivity to sound, smell and unexpected touch. I had him tested by an OT which confirmed this and he did do some OT for a summer. She said that she often sees very bright children who are oversensitive to things. Fast forward a few years and he is doing very well in public school despite a hard beginning in K. Maturity has helped a lot. His preschool doesn't sound like a good fit for him. Do you need him to go to school over the summer for childcare purposes? If you don't, I would keep him at home this summer.

Can you ask to observe? Not for 10 minutes but for an hour or two at a time of day the staff say is problematic. As his parent, who will know what he's thinking much of the time without actually having to have him spell it out in words, if you can see any of these behaviors yourself you may have much more insight than the staff of the preschool. If he doesn't hit at home or on playdates, if you haven't seen it, how are you supposed to discuss that behavior with a psychologist?

Polly

Here's my issue with the meeting you described (and I admit I may be oversensitive since I have sat in that same spot and heard how awful my kid was): when everything they discuss is what's "wrong" with your kid, they are not taking responsibility for what may be wrong with the environment they are providing. The "brainstorming" should be to figure out the environmental triggers and how to intervene. Our childcare did this for us for my son around that age and they figured out that the teachers were not being consistent about expectations and he was sort of having meltdowns that looked like defiance (but in my experience with my son it comes from not being sure what is expected of him and being pretty sure the adults are going to punish him no matter what he does). They changed the environment and things dramatically improved. He also has some sensory seeking issues, so that was coming in to play too.
In first grade he had a teacher who completely lacked understanding (and best I can tell empathy) and he was having weekly meltdowns and being sent to the office. When they finally agreed to change classrooms, his behavior changed completely and he was SOO much happier! So what changed overnight? The classroom environment, not my son!

So when they give you this laundry list of bad behaviors, make them tell you specifics. WHEN is he defiant? What happened right before? Is it at certain times a day? Exactly what rules is he refusing to follow? Are there times that he seems happy and participates well? What is different about those times? When/who/why is he hitting?

They need to figure out what the problem is on their end, ESPECIALLY if he is not behaving like this at home. To suggest medication is inappropriate, imo and suggests that they are looking for the easy answer rather than recognizing their own role in the situation.

For crying out loud, he is only three! Are they seriously telling you that all the other kids his age are sitting quietly with their hands folded, doing exactly what they are being told to do? Maybe he is more disruptive than others, but be sure that their expectations are reasonable and age-appropriate.

How does your son feel about the school? Does he complain about going or seem ok when you see him? I have mixed feelings about Montessori because it sounds good to me in theory, but when I visited one for my own son I could see right away it would not work for him. For a child-led education philosophy, it seemed to have a lot of rules about "proper" behavior, proper use of the classroom equipment, etc. So maybe the school just isn't a good fit for your son. Are there any other decent options?

For me, the biggest thing I learned from similar situations is that I don't want my kid in an environment with people who don't appreciate what an amazing, fantastic, fun kid he is. When they start describing him negatively to you, you can bet that he is getting that same message from them as well, even if it is not spoken. They should be able to discuss some positive things he is doing with you as well and if they can't I would be gone.

But bottom line, stay true to your son and who you know that he is and what you know that he needs. And if they can't give it to him, then that is their shortcoming not his.

Good luck!

"I don't want my kid in an environment with people who don't appreciate what an amazing, fantastic, fun kid he is. "

So true LNEsmom.

As an example of a great preschool fit, DS4 cried in a loud annoying way at preschool today when something didn't go the way he'd hoped. I cringed, knowing that he can be hard to be around and wishing he would "behave better" like the majority of the other kids there. And then his wonderful teacher smiled and said, "We just love his passion!" And it's true, they do. He's equally passionate about positive things in an enthusiastic driving way that enriches their classroom. Sure they do wish to guide him to express negative emotions in a more socially acceptable way, but they also respect him as an individual and know that moderating the negative side of intensity is a process that takes differing amounts of time for different individuals.

I wish you luck sweetpeas that next year's gifted school will be for your DS what this years preschool is for mine.

Polly

I could have written your post! My son started a Montessori preschool just before his third birthday. He struggled almost immediately. We switched to half days. He continued to struggle with the same issues as your son. Finally after a year and a half, we pulled him out.
I dreaded pick-up time. They would excuse the kids one by one from circle to do the hand shake thing and the teacher would give the parent a short report on the day. First, my son was almost always in the time out chair. As the kids were excused it would be "Katie did so well coloring today" and "Sonya is really working on her counting" and "Ben has the nicest art project to take home" and then we'd get to my kid "W didn't really participate much today. He wouldn't sit for circle so we sent him to the office. He came back and worked on some puzzles but when it was time for afternoon circle he wouldn't put his the puzzle he was working on away so he got a timeout. There was also an incident at recess. There is a report for you to sign. He threw sand at someone's face and it really hurt their eyes.". At this point my son would pipe up with "I didn't get SENT to the office I made the CHOICE to go there because I HATE your circle time. I threw sand because the boy was being mean and putting grass in my hair and he stepped on my sand building on purpose and no one would do anything about it. I had a really bad day and I want to go home"

My dd6 had similar problems in preschool but not as bad. It did however get that bad when she went to k. In preschool i didn't yet know she was advanced so i got upset but the teachers were awesome. In kindergarten she had lots of issues with other kids, running around the classroom. She even hit a little boy infant of myself and a teacher, then she refused to say she was sorry. I knew by this time she was ahead so i talked to the teacher and we worked on getting her engaged and giving her afterschool classes to help her with social skills. If her school wouldn't help us i would find her a new school. It can't be all your sons fault even if he was the most rambuncious child on the planet.

As for what has happened since he was pulled out, we decided to get an educational assessment. The school also recommended an evaluation from an occupational therapist. The assessment confirms he is gifted and in need of acceleration. The therapist has diagnosed him with retained infantile reflexes. The OT comes to our house and teaches him exercises once a week.
My sister in law, who is a pediatrician, and the psych. who evaluated him think the OT stuff is a fringe science and question it's validity. However, they both agree it can't hurt so if we are willing to pay for it whatever. Their position is "school was a bad fit, he's still a little guy, and he might never act like all the other kids and that is okay". Of course, throwing sand or hurting someone is not okay and he knows that. They mean his intensity will probably always be a part of his personality.
I know how you feel after that meeting. I have been there within the last six months and I felt horrible. Take heart that you have a better situation on the horizon. We are still trying to figure out what to do next year.

This is actually why we haven't sent Bear to a brick and mortar preschool besides the socializations he does at the district special needs preschool. We KNOW we'd be getting called everyday.

He has been in OT for a couple years now and it has actually does miracles. He went from tantrums over an hour every day or two to only having one like that every couple months. His sensory issues have been helped a lot too.

He's gone through just about every test that exists at this point and the best they've managed to come up with is sensory processing disorder and bad anxiety. That and smart....

Good luck!

Sweetpeas, it sounds to me like this school has expectations that couldn't possibly work for the full range of normal 3-year-old behavior. They make it work by having a heavily self-selected population. I think it's terrible of them to try to accomplish this by pathologizing your son or any other kid that doesn't fit. They should just fess up that they have a style that is only a good fit for certain personality types.

Montessori was great for my two dds, however, it isn't great for every kid and your son't frustration is understandable. Do you even have to finish the year? Honestly, I would pull him out now. Good luck!

I second everything LNEsMom said with applause!! Very nicely put.

The biggest issue we had with schools is getting the detail as to what happens before a "behavior", during, reaction to consequences etc. I always just thought it was because they don't seem to be able to discern that level of detail, "20+ other kids in the classroom" and that sort of thing.

But the more I keep hearing about this sort of thing over and over about children who are similar to my DD, the more I wonder if it's just the school staff evading responsibility and/or reluctance to admit that they have no idea how to deal with or educate this type of child.

While hitting is not appropriate of course, it is not an unusual response to extreme frustration for a 3 yr old!!!!!! I would be very shocked that they suggested meds for someone that young.

At least you have an optimistic school change on the horizon, that’s a really good thing.

p.s. my DD did what KJP's child did, making "choices" to demonstrate certain types of behaviors to get out of the classroom. These are very smart kids and they do what it takes. School people don't really seem to understand how deep the layers are with these kids' behaviors, or they don't want to deal with it.

We had this issue when DS was in Pre school from both sides, one year there was a kid who was a "handful" and it was very tough for the other parents. We put a lot of pressure on this private school to deal with the child, which they did, through meetings with the parents. What ended up happening was the bulk of the teachers time was spent with the kid, leading to things happening with the other kids. But the child's behavior kept escalating, as the parent of the kid who got hit, it was so obvious it was about fit. In this case the kid was much less verbal and socially ready for the program but the school had caved to the parents to let him in, and then had to cave to the other parents and removed him.

I realized the next year though as they struggled with my DS who had gone through one of those super growth spurts of learning that they couldn't deal with anyone not in the fat part of the bell curve of beahvior for this age group. They couldn't manage the social and emotional needs of someone too young nor could they handle it with the too advanced. Anything "too" was too much.

From what I read when we had to deal with the biter and hitter, it is all about frustration and communication. If they don't have the words or the emotional development so they resort to the physical. I can't say I know what they should have done better but I do know they took the steps they did due to parental pressure, so that's what you might be getting as well. Then again they wanted my 4 year old who was reading 3 grade books to see a psych for social training when he had no interest in playing with his age mates who had no knowledge of what he was talking about!

Not sure if any of this is helpful

DeHe

I'm sorry you're going through all this. Sounds upsetting and exhausting and confusing.

I think you need to take a "long view" here. You're son is still so young. It's really hard to know what's at the root of these behaviors. Gifted kids are so intense, it's hard to know what's what. Teasing out gifted from ADHD (for example) is really for a skilled psych.

I love the idea of your going to the classroom to observe. Montessori schools/classes/kids are used to people sitting in the room, so it shouldn't be a big idea. Just write down what you see.

I'd take every data point I could from this experience. Write it all down. Try to be as objective as possible. Write down what the teacher said, what you saw, what happens at home, etc.

Next year he'll be at a different school, and you'll have another environment to see your child in.

My DD did get injured (three long scratches down her back and one near her eye) by a more severely autistic child in her K class. He was a year older, fairly big, and it was an ongoing battle between the school and the parents as to whether he should really be in this classroom setting. We as well as some other parents who were also affected by this child's behavior were always complaining.

He had a full time 1:1 aide but she did drop the ball enough times to put the other kids in a bad spot. He followed the girls into the girl's bathroom enough to upset some of them enough that they wouldn't go to the bathroom all day, including my DD, which in K is tough.

My pediatrician said we should request mediation and it was refused. I guess you could go to a hearing phase. All this wrapped up with her not being academically challenged despite the test scores we had etc.

I know the stress in part caused her to have breakdowns as well as the dreadful academic boredom. The conditions in the classroom were just unhealthy all around.

Then we homeschooled.

Thank you all so much for your responses. I appreciate them more than you can know. I admit to tearing up quite a bit as I read through this thread - I guess I am even more emotional about this situation than I realized.

The idea to go and observe is a great one. We did do this already, though, and we were there for several hours. Of course, while we were there, he was on his best behavior. He stayed in circle time, did what was asked, stayed focused on his worked, etc. The teacher joked that we needed to observe every day.

We had an OT go and watch the classroom too. She saw some misbehaviors, mostly that he was not staying in place for long enough. He'd want to jump from work to work.

It's so hard to get a finger on exactly how bad he is acting at school. I don't think the teachers are lying or even exaggerating because I know for a fact that he is a very intense kid and very stubborn too. It doesn't sound like they have found triggers or any pattern to his behavior. He just sometimes decides he doesn't want to cooperate, or he doesn't want to follow the rules.

The last time he got sent home from school was for dumping sand on some girl's head. Part of me thinks that it isn't that strange for a three-year-old to dump sand on another kid's head when they are playing in a sandbox. Is it bad behavior? For sure. Worth kicking him out of school and suggesting medication over? Not really. But, I guess the incident was just part of a bigger picture/pattern of misbehavior.

I can stay home with him this summer. My husband and I both work from home - and I only work part-time. I actually really want to take him out of school right now and keep him home all summer too! My husband, however, really wants to keep him in school. I'm not sure what we'll end up doing.

Much of what many of you said really resonated with me. I do think that he is a difficult kid to have in the classroom, but I don't think they believe the environment is at all part of the problem. They think that if they can't handle him, no one can.

I completely agree with the poster that said for Montessori being a child-led education they sure have a TON of rules. So true. I think I had this idea that they were more flexible than what they really are.

What worries me is that his experiences here are shaping how he sees himself. I feel like he has been labeled (rightly or wrongly) as a troublemaker by both the teachers and the other kids. I also worry about the other kids. If he is as disruptive to the classroom as it sounds like is sometimes is, then that really isn't fair to them.

OK, here I go again... "babbling" out a long post. Clearly, I've needed a place to vent. You all don't know how much I appreciate being able to talk openly about these issues here and receiving such great feedback. It really means a lot. Thank you!

Just wanted to pipe in for a second and say things will get better, even though it doesn't feel like it. My DS7 had a very hard time at 3yo in preschool. He was a PG kid and just couldn't handle the structure and slow pace of everything. We kept him in for 3 months and finally decided it wasn't worth it at all. He was never sent home or anything but they complained a lot, contacted us a lot,and he didn't really feel good about it and could care less about going either way. We tried again at 4yo and that was our worst experience ever. He was pretty much kicked out of their program (it'a crazy story which I won't go into that really had more to do with their program and lack of being able to take on a child that didn't fit into a perfect mold and was satisfied doing nothing academic at all). Then he went to another preschool program that was great because they let him do things above level...but they realized just how advanced he was while he was there and recommended Montessori. He then went to Montessori and actually did awesome there and loved it...no behavior concerns at all. We were worried about putting him in a public school at that point and did testing where they recommended homeschool or highly gifted schools...but we went with our regular public school who allowed him to skip K. He struggled some in first with behaviors...but he was 5yo and it was his first full day experience. He did a lot better in 2nd..barely any calls or reports of behaviors at all. Now 3rd is even better. So I just wanted to say that they do mature and I hope things improve. You know how wonderful your son and I agree that it is important to have others recognize that as well. The teacher has a lot to do with the whole program. I work in schools so I definitely know that well. Good luck and hope things turn out well!

: - ) I shed buckets of tears during the preschool years. I got the "chew you up and spit you out" in the pick up line quite often, and the other parents often quickly herded their children away from us. And the teacher wondered why the other students and my DD weren't meshing!

It does get better. First you learn more about your child and ease into parenting a child like that (my DD is a "straight to D child for sure!) and you develop a new normal (which sometimes feels like the only other people who can understand are the people behind the user names on this forum!)

And your child matures, and has more opportunities to channel their intellect and talents and energy. When my DD was 3 and 4 I used to just look at her sometimes and think the poor thing was one big, huge personality stuck in a little person's body!

Good luck and enjoy the ride!!

Is there any chance you could find a different preschool setting for your ds? My dd10 had a *horrendous* experience in preschool - at a school that her older brother had a great experience at. It was also a Montessori school - but that doesn't mean Montessori schools don't work well for kids (gifted or otherwise) - the reason I mention Montessori is that I think it's important to remember that even though a school in theory follows the Montessori philosophy, it's the staff and owners who ultimately set the tone and demeanor of the school. Just because a school is Montessori doesn't guarantee the staff is running the school in a way that will fit with your child, or even that the staff is necessarily qualified to be running a preschool. Likewise, just because one Montessori isn't a good fit for your child doesn't mean another won't be a good fit.

We were always getting called in about her behavior, and the director tried to convince us she must be deaf or have learning issues etc - it was always something. She wouldn't nap at school - that turned into her being perceived to be a problem child. She supposedly sat and just screamed at times when she was supposed to be in circle, things like that. I mentioned our dd's experience for a number of reasons. First and foremost - she's 10 now and she's doing great Soooo be assured - things may be a jumbled up mess of chaos now, but this too will pass Second, we finally saw the light and switched schools (to another Montessori fwiw) and our dd instantaneously morphed into a kid who never screamed, through fits, or had trouble napping at school. It was the environment... and we couldn't have changed it no matter how hard we'd tried at the previous school. Third - in hindsight, we really wish we had moved her out of that school THE MINUTE she started having troubles - because we found out some things later on, after she was old enough to talk well and communicate with us, that just absolutely made me livid to know they had happened to her (and we were able to verify that they happened from another staff member). Last reason, our dd wasn't without challenges, but we didn't know about all of them or understand the ones we knew about well, at the time. In our dd's case, much of her inability to nap was related to food allergies causing an upset stomach after lunch.... something we couldn't have understood until after we knew she had food allergies. She also doesn't have hearing problems, as the director suspected... but she did have a severe vision challenge which none of us recognized and which I suspect did add to her frustration and misbehaving at school. So, bottom line, the school was a horribly poor fit for her... but there were also signs there, hidden in behaviors and in what the school staff was observing, of things that were really concerns for our dd. It's possible you just have a bad fit for a preschool, or it's possible there is something more that's going on. Once you switch schools and have a chance to observe your ds in a different setting, you'll know more about what's really up. But you'll *never* be able to tease out challenges - IF they exist - in an environment that is contentious and where your ds has already been cast in the roll of "problem child" by the staff.

Sending you tons of good wishes,

polarbear

I think you should trust your instincts and your gut on this one. What purpose is it serving to keep him there?

I'm back again : - )

After reading polarbear's response, I guess it helped me weave what I said earlier about needing details about behaviors...what happened before, during, after...to help understand the child's behavior as it's related to the environment and gather evidence or information to help tease things out if needed.

Our two big things with DD were not realizing the correlation between behavior and her eating chocolate and red 40 dye because she didn't really eat that stuff at home (just school and kids' parties). If the detail was like...she's been fine all week, then a childs' parent brought cupcakes in and the kids ate them, and it's it strange..10 minutes later it was BAM!...maybe a light bulb would go off over time if there was a pattern. And the second thing was the double-vision which was related to looking away and having trouble navigating around the room.

Very specific behaviors and circumstances relate to honing in on any non-gifted issues your child might have.

Preschools (any schools) and teachers vary widely but if you know this early that your child is "different" definitely work with teachers and schools for decent communication of detailed facts (not just telling you and the child what went wrong and sending you on your way).

Okay I'm done!

I teared up reading these too. It's sad when folks are unhappy with a situation and don't know what to do about it.

This can be a sign that the work isn't at the right level for your son, or it could be a sign that he is gifted with ADHD. The way I look at it, there are lots of gifted kids with ADHD out there because their parents were able to use their Giftedness to compensate for their ADHD well enough to be fairly successful and live long enough to have families of their own. When you have him home this summer, you'll be able to try many levels of the same activity and see how much of this is poor fit. Here's a caution: Just like we parents of Gifted kids tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual thinking skills because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar, parents of kids with ADHD tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual level of non-tolerance for things not being just right, because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar. That was me anyway.

I'm just about to recommend Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook: An Interactive Guide to The Nurtured Heart Approach [Perfect Paperback] by Lisa Bravo and Howard Glasser
http://www.amazon.com/Transforming-Difficult-Child-Workbook-Interactive/dp/0967050758

They have notes in there about how to turn teachers around into seeing the good in kids - basically a daily note, you make it and give them 7 xerox copies each week that says:

1) I joined the circle Great good somewhat none
2) I was kind to my friends Great good somewhat none
3) I did my works Great good somewhat none
Mommy and Daddy can be proud of me today because I ___________

Teachers are human, and we humans are vulnerable to 'confirmation bias.' see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias

So in the note above, the first 3 are 'decoy' so that the teacher feels comfortable doing what they do - judging your child, but the 'Mommy and Daddy can be proud....' stuff is where the magic happens. But being open to looking for one simple thing about your kid to celebrate each day, the teacher will shift her perception and start having confirmation bias in the good direction.

The rest of the book is for you. It's quite possible that your son has 'no trouble' at your house becaue you are such a thoughtful and sensitive parent. (Happened at my house.) You may have even read, and implimented Raising Your Spirited Child: A Guide for Parents Whose Child Is More Intense, Sensitive, Perceptive, Persistent, Energetic [Paperback] by Mary Sheedy Kurcinka

Because you are probably gifted, sensitive, and intense, you may be able to keep the upsets to a minimum, even though your son is quite unable to deal with many situations where 'mere mortals' are running the show. That's where the workbook I mentioned above comes in very useful. It's a safe and sane way to figure out how to help you child grow inner resource enough to deal with situations where the environment isn't being carefully managed by a sensitive aware adult with plenty of time and motivation. They report that this style of parent has helped many kids with behaviors identical to ADHD grow to use their intensity for good and stop being a behavior problem without medication. Which is what attracted me to them in the first place. I would say that some kids can and some kids can't but that isn't the main point. The main point is that Parents of Intense Gifted kids need specialized disipline techniques, but cause their kids might not respond to regular disipline. Or regular discipline might make the problems worse!

Just like we parents of Gifted kids tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual thinking skills because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar, parents of kids with ADHD tend to be 'unimpressed' with our children's unusual level of non-tolerance for things not being just right, because we are 'used to' family members who are often quite similar. That was me anyway.



I don't blame you for wanting to take him out now, and I'm so glad to hear that you can take him out this summer. Because your DH isn't 'on board' and I can understand his point of view, I might suggest a compromise - try the workbook and daily note for 3 weeks. As long as the situation doesn't get worse, give it the full 3 weeks with the note, and then re-evaluate. You many have future opportunity to use the skills of interacting with teachers, so a 3 week 'educational experience' might be worth the hassle.


I completely agree with the poster that said for Montessori being a child-led education they sure have a TON of rules. So true. I think I had this idea that they were more flexible than what they really are.
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You will find that you can't tell a school by it's affiliation. Montessori is very based in their view of how children typically develop. When a (highly intelligent/wise/sensitive) director understand that difference between 'most' and 'all' then Montessori can work well for many gifted kids. But in the hands of a more 'concrete' thinking, the shades of grey are lost and Montessori can be instituded in a 'lockstep' way that really frustrates many gifted kids. The A then B then C THEN D, approach works for many kids, but frustrates the learners who WANT D NOW.

I agree. I saw this happen to my son in 2nd grade. I think that the note, used daily, will turn this around quickly, because it's clear that your son has a lot of strengths.

We all neeed a place to vent. That's the number one difficulty with have a child who is 'on their own developmental path.' Let us know how things turn out. We want your family to do well!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I totally understand the thing about Montessori and the rules. Seriously, I could not believe the number of rules in my son's class. He came from a daycare where the rules were be nice to people and property. Just getting to circle was a multiple step process that had to be in order the exact way. It was hanging a coat, changing shoes, and washing hands. Sounds simple but there was a specific way things had to be done, there was a line at each station (single file, no talking) and if anyone didn't walk between stations they had to go back to the one before. Circle was long. Sometimes forty minutes. Even though kids could pick their work, they had to do it exactly as the teachers wanted. You couldn't mix works either. Taking the "pink tower" and making snowmen who lived on the cutout of Pluto was frowned upon (despite it being great snowman habitat ;)).
Anyway, you are not the only one shocked by all the rules. I was admittedly uneducated about preschool philosophies when he enrolled. I just figured he'd be great anywhere because he loved learning. You'd think that would make school easy.

I agree with much of what everyone has said and I know how frustrating this is. One thought I had that just keeps popping into my head is how long is a 3 year old supposed to sit still. My DS's issues like the one's you describe did not really start for him until regular school. He went to play based preschool and while they had some group time, they had a lot of choices on what they wanted to do and that seemed to work for my DS. He still went to K a grade level or two above the other kids in both reading and math. I think it is right to consider what it is about your DS that does not make him fit fit their program, but also to think about what is not right with that program that does not fit your DS. 3 also seems really young for kids to start judging other kids to me - so the teachers must be doing a great job of convincing them that he is a trouble maker.

This is why we pulled Mr W. He was totally bored. Working at a 2nd grade level in Prek. And would not and could not "follow the rules." The other Kids will pick up on what adults feel even if the adults do not say it. If the "prblem child's" ego is strong enough, they will reject the adult and it then becomes a contest of wills, or they will regress. I do think they are harmed even in the first case and start to internalize the insinuation that they are troublemakers.

For example. I had a chance to observe Mr W with both his prek and the K classes together at an outing and Mr W was looking at everything, moving around a lot to get looks, and asked a ton of questions, and made comments. If you did not notice that he was very curious you would think he was misbehaving. There was just one other kid who moved around a bit and not at all to the degree he did. He completely circled the group looking at everything on the walls and in the displays. The other kids just stood around.

I am reminded on the time we looked at daycares for 1 year olds and the kids in his "room" looked drugged compared to him. This trend of his activity and mental awareness has continued in comparison with his peers.

The other thing is that DW and I are used to his level of energy but when he was younger it just exhausted us. Now we see it as normal. I can see how it would exhaust and exasperate another adult.

I can see how very easy it is for a PG kid to just withdraw.

Thank you all!!!

Grinity - if I could reach through the screen and give you a big hug, I would. I LOVE the idea of the daily worksheet for the teacher. It's brilliant! I just created the form and e-mailed the school to let them know about it. I'll send 5 along in his backpack on Monday. Hopefully they will actually fill them out. If they don't.... well, all the more reason to leave the school now.

Communication with his teacher hasn't been great, and I hope this will help.

I am really leaning heavily towards pulling him out for this summer and letting him start fresh in the Fall at the new pre-K school. I just have to convince my DH. But... we'll see. Maybe we will have a big turnaround here. My son is happy and well behaved when he is home with me - so, it seems logical to keep him at home.

Thank you all again, this thread has been a total sanity saver. I'm so grateful and touched that you all have taken the time to share your stories and suggestions. It means so much to me - and my husband too! THANK YOU!!!

I'll keep you all posted as things develop and as I undoubtedly need more advice.

I agree with the bolded. And I also love the daily report idea from Grinity. May just have to steal it! Hope that things improve at the school.

I am just curious, and feel free to not answer if you prefer, but why is your DH against pulling him out?

I think your plan to take him out for the summer is solid. There is no reason to put him in this environment if he is not happy there. And I think your concerns about how it could effect his self-esteem are very valid. You definitely don't want him to start thinking there is something wrong with HIM just because the classroom environment is not right. I would definitely say that this happened to my DS to a degree, although he is doing MUCH better now that he is a bit older!

Just to be on the safe side I'd be prepared to accept that no school will work.

LNEsMom - My DH says he doesn't want to pull him out because he wants "continuity" and also he doesn't want to send the message that when things get difficult for our son that we'll just change schools. I think other other issue, although unspoken, is that my husband works at home and it would be distracting (even if I was the one with my son all day).

ACK!



LOL... I hear ya, though. I've told my husband more than once that we (I) may end up homeschooling him. He wasn't too excited about that, of course. I mean, if he doesn't want a 3-year-old home all summer of course homeschooling won't sound appealing to him.

I'd prefer to find a school that works, but I'm all for homeschooling if it is the best option. I have high hoped for the private gifted school. But, yeah, I'm trying to plant some ideas with DH that school might always be a tough fit for DS.

Well, you don't have to actually be at HOME to homeschool. You could use the public library for 'school time' or the park or anywhere, really. There's no reason you have to stay at the house.