Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Are preschool screenings valid?

Hi, all
I have a PG teenager and also a 3 1/2 year old that appears to be gifted, but who knows to what degree.

We've decided to enroll the 3 1/2 year old into a preschool next year and have selected a gifted private school that seems to meet our criteria. They do not require IQ tests for the preschool age kids, but they do require that they complete a screening.

My son did the screening, but being a highly distractable 3-year-old didn't complete a portion of the test. We just heard this morning that he still passed the screening, despite not completing the test. They gave us 3 scores, which has left us scratching our heads: his language score was 6 (with a ceiling of 6), Cognitive was 5 (with a ceiling of 6), and Language/Cognitive was 5 (with a note that he was just one point shy of getting a 6).

Does this sound like any kind of screening test you all are familiar with? Do you believe that gifted screenings are valid?

Our main concern is that we don't want to start our son at this preschool if he wouldn't later qualify for the grade school (which requires a full IQ test). I have a meeting set up with the school next week, but I was hoping we could get some insights from parents who have BTDT ahead of time. The cynical part of me worries that they pass most kids on the screening.

As I mentioned before, though, he does show signs of giftedness. He's an excellent reader, completes huge puzzles on his own, great with numbers, etc. Our scale for what is "normal" for a 3-year-old is thrown off a bit since our other child is PG.

Thank you

At what age/grade does this school usually require the full IQ test? Which test? Will your son be 6 so he can take the WISC, or will he have to take the WPPSI? (which a bright 6 year old can bump the ceiling on) Will the school accept a WPPSI now for acceptance into the grade school?

Does your school program require a 130 cut off or a 145 cut off? If the cut off is 130, it seems likely that your younger would make it, but perhaps unlikely that it would be enough. If it's 145 then you'll need a real IQ test. Does the school accept something like a GAI? or do they need a Full Scale over 130 or 145? What about a kid with a spiky profile, such as 145 in Verbal and 115 in processing speed or working memory?

Next Subject -

How acurate are the screening? Well, If there were as accurate as IQ tests, then no one would charge or pay 16 times as much for a IQ test given by an experienced tester, right? OTOH, as for a quick and dirty ballpark, then thinks like Ruf's TalentIgnighter and screener work somewhat well. High Vocabulary is subtest that has the highest correlation to the overall test score. I wouldn't expect that to be true for a bilingual kid or a kid who isn't a native speaker, but that doesn't seem to be your situation.

Also - if your older is a female and your younger is a male, things can look very different. (Highly distractible in particular is a popular way for boys to be different.) It's also quite possible that it's hard to remember fully what your current teenage was like at 3, and also, you've changed as well. You've probably met more PG kids and the Wow factor might be different. I know that I have much more contact with PG and HG families now that my PGlet is 15 than I did when he was 7.

Also, there is some thought that the more gifted a child is, the more different he or she is from other gifted children, I guess compared to kids who score in the meaty middle of the IQ chart. This seems like a mean thing to say or even think, but my guess it that there is some way in which this it true without interfering with my idealistic believes in the individuality and dignity of each individual human. For the purposes of teaching children in classrooms, for example, I do believe that 'common knowledge' is a pretty good estimate of what kids in the middle of the curve need to grow. Sure I'd love to see the art of teaching improving over time, and I believe that there is plenty of room to grow, but overall, it seems to me that schools work fairly well for lots and lots of kids without a lot of parental involvement. I think that the normal amounts of thoughtfulness and expertise that most hard working teachers have is plenty enough for most kids in the middle.

Which is a long and off track(srry) way of saying that it's logical that your little one seems very very different from your older one. PG kids vary tremendously in their particular needs for educational modification, their personality, and how easy it is to 'tell by looking' that they are PG.

((shrugs))
Grinity

I'm not familiar with any type of screening that gives the types of numbers you were given, but I'd be willing to bet that, with a PG older sibling and the signs of giftedness you mention, he is gifted. I wouldn't keep him out of a school that you think would be a good fit b/c you're unsure whether he'll qualify on IQ later. It sounds like the odds are heavily in his favor that he will.

Thank you both for your responses.

Grinity - This school requires the full IQ test for entrance into Kindergarten. I believe they use the WPPSI if they administer the test themselves, but accept a wider range of IQ tests if administered elsewhere.

My son has an August birthday, so he will be a young kindergartener. He is currently 3 1/2, and will be 4 1/2 when he needs to take the IQ test for entry into the Kindergarten program.

Their minimum IQ is 125, although entrance is fairly competitive and most students score significantly higher.

That is interesting that the high vocab/verbal subtest has the highest correlation to the overall test score. If he hit ceiling for score with language on this screening, that makes me feel more confident that he will do fine on the IQ test in the future.

Yes, our older child is a girl and has a very different personality and overall temperament than our son. It does seem like a lifetime ago that she was a toddler, and we certainly have our eyes more open now to gifted education issues.

I tend to not put much wait into the type of screenings that are given for really young kids - but I'm also guessing that between genetics and what you've seen so far, chances are your ds is gifted and will very likely qualify for the school you're looking into when he's older.

My question is - if you like this school and want your ds to attend, does it matter if he doesn't get into elementary school there later on? Is your concern that he will be going to a new school with new friends? If that's your concern, I wouldn't worry much about it - many many kids make a transition to a different elementary school from preschool and it works out a-ok - it did for all three of my kids.

Best wishes,

polarbear

It may be a school based screener. I know that our local gifted private school has a different criteria for preschool than it does for elementary school. I'm not sure when they require an IQ test because we have no intention of ever enrolling our child there.

I would ask the school questions about how kid's transition from preschool to elementary school and not stress about those test results.

Good point, and yes - that is exactly my concern. Thanks!

I second the school change as well. Mr W has moved to three different "schools" in the last 2.5 years. Each has been successively better for him. We would like for him to go all the way where he is at, but he may not. We are already supplementing him with stuff 3+ grades ahead of his placement.

If all they are looking for is a 125, and your son is mature enough to sit still and answer 'dumb questions' for the time needed, then my guess is that he should have no problem. It's hard to score a 150 on the WPPSI by age 5 because of ceiling issues, but a 125 should be fine.

If he doesn't get the 125 from the school, can you go back and get private testing afterwards?

If it's competitive, do he get an advantage by going as a preschooler - if so - take it!

Enjoy the difference!
Grinity

I have toured a similar school and the question was asked to the admissions director of what happens in those cases where the child doesn't meet the magic number. I am sure the school has a procedure in place. In this one, the main departure point is whether the teachers believe the child is gifted and under-performed in the test. If that is the case, then they administer a different IQ test.

The other point they brought up is that as soon as they start suspecting that a child will not meet the criteria (even before testing), they start talking to the parents and working on a better school match.