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I am getting to my wits' end with my seven-year-old daughter's school difficulties.

Her teacher contacted us to complain about her throwing tantrums in school (which she described as "spectacular" - well beyond what she has seen before in 26 years of teaching). But she's also struggling a great deal with handwriting and generally with written expression. When she talks, she is quite insightful and engaged, but she just cannot get her ideas onto paper, and is getting to the point where she stops trying.

We're just starting on the road to having her evaluated, but the description of kids with ADHD/PI reads like it was written about her. In addition, she melts down whenever she feels she has been treated unfairly, which can involve screaming, kicking things, etc.

Switching her to another class is not an option, because she is in a gifted program that has only one classroom at her grade level.

DD hasn't had a formal evaluation since she was 4, but she scored a 145 on the WPPSI-III then. She's in a 2nd grade class doing 3rd grade curriculum. We saw a counselor and her doctor this week, and they both focused on the ADHD-PI diagnosis, but that's not confirmed without going through the questionnaire process. I don't know if we should be looking at a full neuropsych eval, or how we go about doing that if that's what we need to do. (We're in the Seattle area if anyone has referral suggestions.)

Help!

Welcome! This sounds very much like my DS-now-8, though his worst period was aged 6 and the descriptions I read about ADHD etc. never did sound like him, so ymmv (always true anyway, of course). He used to get very upset about perceived injustice, had tantrums that he really couldn't control even though he perfectly understood it wasn't acceptable, and had trouble with handwriting and getting stuff onto paper. He also used to be very concerned about following rules, and used to suffer "analysis paralysis" when he wasn't sure what he ought to be doing and so did nothing - which of course was often the worst thing he could have done...

He isn't diagnosed with anything, and his problems were relatively short lived; it was really only that one school year, and since then he's been a model pupil. So there is hope! (Though I don't mean at all to dismiss the possibility of ADHD/PI, and you should certainly go for a full evaluation if you suspect medication might be part of the answer. ASD was something we considered at the time, but it also didn't really fit.)

I really liked the teacher he had that year, but there's no doubt he found her difficult to be with; I think the issue was that she was rather unpredictable, and would be patient up to the point when she lost her temper, which he found hard to adjust to. Fortunately for him, she also really cared about helping him. One thing she did, which might perhaps be relevant if your DD also has the paralysis thing, was to give all the children cards with a green "I'm OK" side and a red "Help!" side, so that if DS was stuck or confused all he had to do was turn his card over and wait for it to be noticed - he found this vastly easier than deciding whether it was OK to go up to the teacher and worry about interrupting etc. This headed off a lot of problems, and also made him know she was on his side.

For writing we've done a bunch of stuff around giving him short, timed periods (e.g. 5 mins) at home to write as much as he can; he's also been helped by a specialist teacher who has taught him some practical tips for writing faster and also boosted his confidence. Again, he's vastly better now than he was.

Good luck!

With what you are describing I would definitely try and get a neuropsych eval if at all possible. The wait for that type of thing is usually 6+ months, so start now! Going through the school there is also often a delay of a month or two, at least. A private (regular) psychologist can probably help in the meant time. Or a behavioral pediatrician, if you can find one.

Spectacle, that would be a new one for me...I heard the word "incident" more than once, which I think should be a word reserved for a police report, not a 7 year old.

If I were in Seattle, I'd certainly check out the Dr. Eide's center if your daughter is that bright but with those learning issues.

http://neurolearning.com/

It's very hard to keep your frustrated feelings for your child's teacher in check for the good of all, but I guess "character is more easily kept than recovered". Last year I had to get through the last weeks of school after my DD (then 7) was left out in the playground by her teacher, and she "couldn't get back into the building because she didn't know the secret code".
Yes the doors are locked to keep out adult intruders, not little 2nd graders who have been separated from their little herd!

Good luck!

spectacular...sorry! I'm not good at multi-tasking

Eide Neurolearning Clinic
6701 139th Pl SW
Edmonds WA 98026-3223
ph: 425-742-2218
fx: 425-609-0050

http://neurolearning.com/

I am currently reading their book, "The Mislabeled Child"

I do not have personal experience with them but they have been recommend on this forum, and are well known in the gifted field. I will try to find a thread here that recommends them.

I hope this helps

What you describe above would also have described my ds to a tee when he was in early elementary - before he was diagnosed with dysgraphia and an expressive language disorder. While ADHD might be at the root of those symptoms, it's really important (imo) to rule out other possible causes, such as dysgraphia etc - and the best place to start (again imo) is with a neuropsych eval. If I was in Seattle, I would also try to see the Eides, although they have a long waitlist. I think their website is www.neurolearning.com.

It would also be helpful to get a full copy of the WPSII testing that was previously done for your files. If you have any subtest scores from that testing, could you post them for us? Were there discrepancies?

The other thing I'd suggest may be something you've already done - but if not, talk to your dd to get as much detail as you can re what's happening at school all around + right before the time she has her tantrums etc.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Here's the thread, which has a google map link in the second entry. Also a good discussion in general on evals

http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/36728/1.html

I didn't have the subtest scores at work, but I'm home now.

Information 17
Vocabulary 17
Word Reasoning 17
(Comprehension 16)
Block Design 18
Matrix Reasoning 16
(Picture Concepts 3)
Picture Completion 17
(Symbol Search 14)
Coding 13

Full Scale IQ 145
Full Scale IQ, Omitting Processing Speed 148

"On the WPPSI-III, DD scored in the Very Superior range of ability overall, better than 99.9% of children her age in the standardization sample. With the exception of the Picture Concepts subtest, there was little variability among the index and subtest scores that go together to comprise DD's Full Scale core, indicating fairly even development of skills. Her verbal and visual-spatial reasoning skills were comparable and quite outstanding (Verbal IQ, Performance IQ, and Full Scale IQ omitting Processisg Speed at the 99.8th or 99.9th percentile).

The only exception to this uniformly high level of functioning was in the Picture Concepts subtest, a measure of inductive categorical reasoning using pictorial information. This subtest requires the student to finde a conceptual relationship between pictured objects in an array of several pictures. In spite of standard practice examples and extra explanations, apparently this task was unusual enough that DD did not grasp what she was expected to do. Because of the discrepancy between her score on Picture Concepts and the other visual reasoning subtests, an additional supplemental visual subtest, Picture Completion, was administered to give a more complete picture of DD's visual reasoning abilities. Her score on Picture Completion was highly commensurate with her Block Design and Matrix Reasoning scores, supporting the view that her visual reasoning ability is very high, but that for some reason she did not comprehend the task on Picture Concepts. Since Picture Concepts was felt to be a significant underestimate of DD's abilities, the Picture Completion subtest was substituted for Picture Concepts in calculating her Performance IQ and Full Scale IQ scores."

I'd suggest a full neuropsych exam. ADHD and Asperger's (also a possibility given the fairness/unfairness tantrums) are often missed in gifted children, as are many other LDs and developmental issues. If she is being made to feel unsuccessful, she is probably highly anxious.


Exactly. It is likely that she is trying as hard as she can, and not managing. This sort of thing can be hugely damaging to self-esteem.

I would probably let the teacher know informally you are pursuing outside evaluation, which may help her calm down and lay off a little. If she knows you're trying, she may be more patient.

If it's a public school, you can also request that the school evaluate-- that way, if she needs services to help with writing, or a plan for behavior support, you can get that into place. It's most efficient to do this in parallel with the outside eval; both processes take months, so doing them sequentially takes forever. There's a format for the request letter in the book From Emotions to Advocacy, and lots of good information on the Wrightslaw.com website.

DeeDee

I second everything in DeeDee's post.

I took the paragraph out of my OP about the teacher, because I decided I was being unfair to her. She is in fact trying to help DD, I'm sure, and has been more accommodating than some would be, even if it doesn't seem like enough.

Today I faxed our ADHD questionnaire to DD's doctor (haven't gotten the one from the teacher back yet), and I asked her for opinions on our local OT and for one or two names for a neuropsych consult. I may well end up taking her to Dr. Eide's center, but I want to see what the wait times are elsewhere before I make a final decision on that.

Ugh, I typed a long update, and it vanished when I tried to post it.

Shorter version: she has a counselor now, and has been doing neurofeedback with pretty good results. She has a behavior plan at school, and that is also helping.

She had an OT screen at school for the writing issues, which found

She has a neuropsych eval scheduled, but it won't happen until July. (I decided not to go with the Eides because of the even longer wait time, longer distance, and because I really don't believe that she has dyslexia.)

I still welcome any thoughts or suggestions!