Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment MAP scores and IQ

Some background, my son is 9, he is at a charter school that has multi-age classrooms and focuses on experiential learning. There is no gifted program, but they are very into ability grouping and willing to grade skip. In addition, the curriculum focuses somewhat on critical and creative thinking, so even though it is a homogeneous group of kids, it works really well for my gifted/LD son. His teacher is awesome, which helps too.

DS9 was tested as a six year old. He had high verbal and perceptual reasoning scores (99th percentile, some 18s and 19s) and a very low processing score, particularly coding. His FSIQ was around 125 with large gaps between processing and all the other subtests. His GAI was in the 140s. The tester thought he was HG, ADHD and perhaps dyslexic.

DS9's older sister is at a highly academic charter school for HG children. The curriculum is wide ranging and quickly paced. Because of DS's LDs, we did not enroll him. They did not want him initially due to the low FSIQ and by the time they agreed to accept his GAI, we had him settled at his current school and didn't want to change.

So here is what is interesting. At his current school they MAP test regularly. His math has always been a few years ahead, with reading at or below grade level. He has always had an IEP, and we began meds for the ADHD last year with great success. At the beginning of this year (3rd grade), his math AND reading were at a beginning 5th grade level. Everyone was very pleased. They tested again in December and both scores jumped to mid 7th grade level.

This is a great problem to have, but I am wondering what is going on. Why the sudden acceleration? Did all the therapies and meds finally pay off? Is he just a late bloomer? I am assuming this score means that conceptually he understands 7th grade material. But how much could he actually do? And how did he learn two years of math in three months?

Should I have another IQ test done? I was thinking about doing one next year to get a feel for what we needed to do to prepare for middle school. The school he is at does not have a middle school option, but his sister's school does and since he is a sibling, he is guaranteed a spot if they have an opening and we apply. I also wanted to get the dyslexia thing nailed down. Does he or doesn't he? But on the other hand, he seems happy, so why spend the money? I have been going back and forth.

I also just want to talk about this and I felt that it was not a topic that would go down well in the pick up line

Welcome! Yes, this is a great place to talk about things you can't talk about elsewhere (when we're not too overrun with threads that are talking about US politics instead, sigh :-)
I don't know much about the MAP, but in general terms I guess it could be either or both - the therapies and meds paid off, and/or he's a late bloomer. Children learning two years of maths in three months does seem to be perfectly possible for some children - I'm tempted to say that it just shows how little maths there is in a school year, but that's clearly not a complete explanation! Anyway, it sounds as though things are going really well for your DS at the moment, and that's great.

The concrete reason you mention for retesting is understanding whether or not he has dyslexia; IIUC, an IQ test isn't going to do that for you. I guess that if his earlier score was an underestimate because of the 2e issues which he's now handling with greater ease, he might well get a much higher FSIQ this time - but if you don't specifically need that for something, I don't know if it would be worth the cost. Sounds as though his achievement may speak for itself at this point, which is a good position to be in.

Oooooohhhh.... how I can identify with that!


It could be any # of things, including just having a great test day vs a so-so test day last time. Both of my 2e kids have been relatively slow to make that leap that suddenly happens when math facts become automatic - my youngest still hasn't arrived there, but for my ds when it happened it was kinda overnight - all of a sudden, he was quicker at math - so something like that can happen quickly. Is the MAP test timed? Does your ds have accommodations? Could it be he's somehow faster now with handwriting? Another thing that happened with my ds was an increase in working memory scores between 2nd and 5th grade - I don't know why... but I think our neuropsych says working memory sometimes does increase as kids mature.

Should you test again? I think one compelling reason to test would be to nail down whether or not your ds has dyslexia - that would be really important to me - he's at the point in school where the emphasis shifts from learning to read to reading to learn, and the demands on reading skills and fluency are just going to keep increasing as he moves up. Re testing just to see what's up with the recent test score increase or IQ in general, I don't think that's necessary and you might want to consider when you'll need testing for middle school and how recent it needs to be. In addition to whatever you'll need for your local middle school, if you're going to have your ds take any high-stakes testing early (SAT etc) and want to apply for accommodations, you'll need testing/diagnosis within a certain time frame (I think it's three years).

It sounds like you have good options re school!

polarbear

ps - ColinsMum mentioned that an IQ test won't tell you if your ds has dyslexia, and she's right about that - but when used as a part of a spectrum of tests, such as a neuropsychologist does, it can be helpful in diagnosing or ruling out dyslexia. My youngest dd just went through dyslexia screening and IQ vs ability was part of her eval. In her case, she appeared to have struggles commonly seen in dyslexic children, but the real issue was a large discrepancy in associative memory vs her other abilities - which showed up clearly in her IQ subtest scores. Knowing her reading challenges are not dyslexia has been really important in how we approach reading plus the type of accommodations she has at school and at home while she does her homework. Plus it's made it a little easier to parent her to - but that's a whole other post! In summary, we thought she had a reading challenge, but it was something else entirely, and that's where having the IQ testing helped

Re: the IQ test. I would want a more current test to figure out whether to send him to the school his sister attends or look for something else. Although his current achievement tests are great, he still struggles with writing and written expression. Also, his eyes don't track properly and he gets tired when he reads a lot. So he reads at a high level, but as the volume increases, I expect him to have more difficultly. And DD's school is all high IQ kids, most of them from high achieving backgrounds, so the expectations are lofty. On the plus side, the science would be appropriate and challenging. I think he would enjoy that. I would also like to say "I told you so." to the director who initially rejected his application based on the FSIQ. But I know that alone is not a good reason.

The MAP test are on a computer. I don't know whether they are timed or not. I know the teachers are asking for accommodation for his EOGs and one is extra time, so he may be getting that for the MAPs too.

Map tests are not timed which can be a big help to a dyslexic who needs time to use all his or her compensation resources.

To put some perspective on this, if I've looked at the RIT score tables correctly, he went from the 91st to the 94th/95th percentile in reading and from the 95th to the 98th/99th percentile in math. He was doing very well before and now he's doing better, but not amazingly so.

How many times has he taken the MAP? If September was the first time, it could just be due to the practice effect. It could also be the beginning of a great leap forward where his achievement scores start to line up better with his IQ. The MAP is untimed, which makes it a great test for kids with LDs.

Keep in mind that grade equivalent scores can be misleading. The MAP is not a placement test. His 7th grade equivalent scores simply mean that his scores were the same as those of a 7th grader at the 50th percentile. Average 7th graders have *not* mastered 7th grade material; they have mastered something closer to 4th or 5th grade material (I'm not exaggerating here).

I think it's wonderful that you're seeing improvement, but I don't think these scores warrant another round of IQ testing just yet.

Looking at the actual scores, he went from barely 99th percentile in math at the beginning of the year to higher than the last number they list for his grade. But his math scores have always been 99th, so that is not a huge change. He started last year at or below grade level in reading and is now in the 96th percentile, which *is* a big change.



He has been taking it since 1st grade. And it is out of grade level, so other than being familiar with the test protocols, that should not matter, right? They introduce new material as long as the child is getting answers correct, so the actual test questions change each time.



That is sad.....

What I am seeing is his achievement scores becoming more in line with his previous aptitude tests. So I am wondering if another IQ test would tell me if his processing issues were much improved or if we simply have a great teacher and a good school fit at this particular moment in time. He is clearly a very bright kid, but because of his processing issues, I assumed he would not be able to do the more academic/high output-type programs that his typically gifted sister enjoys. And honestly, at this point in time, I am ok with that. But I don't want to sell him short either. If he can do more and thrive, I want to give him that opportunity.

Oh yes. The last eval we had done when he was six rocked our world, and all for the good. It was so great to understand why a super bright kid who could go on for hours about dark matter and the meaning of life could not get dressed without detailed, step-by-step directions. Once I understood, I stopped expecting him to do things he wan't capable of and life got better for all of us.

I disagree with this. MAP testing IS used for placement for both reading and math.

From the cumulative report (2011 norms)...
[quote=NWEA]
" Comparative Data to Inform
Instructional Decisions
The information in this document is provided to help educators make informed decisions about what instructional programs or optional strategies might be used to help kids learn. These data should be used as one of many data points for instructional decisions rather than as the only single placement guide. They are applicable to a variety of instructional programs and instructional decisions. These might include but are not limited to:
• Identifying and qualifying students for various instructional strategies
• Guiding teachers who do not regularly make decisions on instructional program choices for students
• Scheduling and grouping to meet students’ learning needs • Screening for special or alternative instruction • Staffing and resourcing
For each chart:
• The grade designations represent beginning-of-year grade levels.
• The RIT scores defining each level are separated by 1/2 standard deviation except for the highest level which is set at the 95th percentile.
• At all levels, consider differentiated instruction, flexible grouping, or tiered instruction.
• As scores ascend, give more consideration to curriculum-compacting, accelerated instructional pacing, and special programs.
• As scores descend, give more consideration to additional instructional time, one-on-one tutoring, use of short cycle assessments, and special programs.
The instructional suggestions in this document are intended to provide initial ideas, not to be an exhaustive list of options. "

"A student score at or above the following scores on a 6+ Mathematics Survey with Goals test suggests student readiness for:
• 230 Introduction to Algebra • 235 Algebra • 245 Geometry "

MAP is also used for gifted placement or screening. The NWEA website says those kids that score in the 95th percentile or above may be gifted.

With the big jumps your son has had and with considering the highly gifted school for him, I would retest if its what you feel is best.


just my two cents
Sheila