Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Elementary School Is 4th grade too early to start Algebra I?

My 3rd grade son recently scored 257 (RIT score) on the NWEA MAP test for Winter 2012. My wife and I feel that he has the aptitude and knowledge set to take Algebra next school year as a fourth grader. As a third grader he has been subject accelerated into 5th grade math but it still does not present a challenge to him. Subject acceleration had been relatively unheard of in our school district prior to our son this year. It was a huge struggle with administration to get this done so we are expecting another battle regarding our newest request. Are we at all out of line in making this request? We just scheduled a meeting with the elementary principal for later this week.

My DD has a similar math score in 5th grade. I think she's ready for algebra next year (if not this year), but I'm still trying to convince the school that she needs more for math now. So, we're supplementing at home.

At any rate, no, I don't think you're out of line and I wish you luck with the school.

My DS who should be a 3rd grader is taking Honors Algebra this year. It totally depends on your kiddo. Because Algebra is a much more abstract form of math it is often the first real challenge that gifted "mathies" have.

I would suggest that you put him on ALEKS or Conquersmath on the computer over the summer as a pre-algebra student and give it a test drive. See how he does. If he does well, then go for it. If he really struggles, then you can re-think your plan before he is placed in an algebra class.

I' new and i'm looking for help with my results on wais 4...

Ditto Shari - just depends on the kids. DS8 has done a little algebra and not had any problem with it, but we haven't spent much time on it (he's already so far ahead of his class.)

This link may be helpful:
http://www.powayusd.com/projects/edtechcentral/lladder/Default.asp

OTOH, being a much more abstract form of math, it is also often the first really interesting math experience that gifted mathies have. I know I didn't care one whit for the subject until I encountered Algebra, and my DW felt the same. DD6 heard us discussing it and she demanded to know what we were talking about, so I made a quick demonstration, and she was fascinated. She was definitely not happy when I stopped with the quick demonstration... she wanted MORE.

I don't think the issue will be him being able to handle the material as he already has/grasps a lot of the concepts due to my wife (community college math instructor) supplementing him at home. I think the main issue will be convincing the administration since it will require my son having to travel to either the middle or high school building which are in a different town from where his elementary school is located. I'm not sure if it is the school district's obligation or ours to transport our son. I don't think the administration really wants to tackle the logistical issues that this will present. Has anyone been in a similar situation regarding transportation?

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I second this - having documentation to show what our ds was capable of was what got us acceleration in math. We used Aleks - it's really handy for this because you can generate reports tied to each state's core standards. We found that type of documentation much easier for the school to accept than IQ scores and the typical achievement tests. If you think your child is ready now, you could sign up for a free trial of Aleks, and have them take the Algebra assessment test that kicks in at the start of the pre-Algebra course - that might give you all the documentation you need, *or* might let you know if there are areas your child needs to fill in before taking Algebra.

FWIW our school district also has an "algebra readiness test" which I think is a common test used across the US - but I can't remember the name of it this morning! Anyway, that's something you might ask about.

polarbear

That's funny. Reading this reminds me of the Life of Fred series, which I suggest for your daughter.

Dadoffive,

I agreed with Shari, epoh, lmp and polarbear as well.

The main deal breaker is algebra is not taught in most of elementary schools which requires transportation to middle school and your DS will miss 2 periods for 1 class of Math in middle school. My DD7 and DD10 are doing Kahn's academy at school during Math class while everyone else in class is doing their respective classwork. We considered using ALEKS or conquerMath too but Kahn's academy is free. When you are armed with all info, the administration will have a hard time denying your request.

Good luck!

If you find yourselves wanting to supplement, The Hippocampus, part of the National Repository of Online Courses, has free online Algebra course presentations in addition to the Khan Academy worked examples. (They also have free online courses in a number of other subjects.)

The way we were able to get credit for the work our ds did in Aleks was through reports and assessments generated in Aleks - there's a report option you can do that will show you the modules mastered and specifically ties them to your individual state curriculum standards for math - which our school district ties their curriculum into. So if a child needed to have accomplished graphing a quadratic equation, for instance, it's easy to see from an Aleks report that yes, they have "mastered" that skill or passed an assessment that tested the skill.

Another thing people can do when looking for online or supplemental math curriculum is to google around on your school district's website - our district has quite a bit of info online. Part of the reason we chose Aleks was that we found it had been one of three online programs that were top contenders when our school district evaluated online math programs for supplementing middle school math. It wasn't ultimately chosen but it received high praise in the report issued, hence we figured that it would be difficult for school staff to argue we'd just picked a program willy-nilly without having a clue what we were doing.

polarbear

Have there been any issues/glitches with Skype?

Transportation may be an issue (there's nothing that "requires" the school to provide transportation -- some schools do, others don't). The other thing I have to talk about with parents when making decisions like this is making sure they understand that this move topples over other "dominoes" down the line -- if the child takes Algebra at such an early age, what do they end up taking four years from now...six years from now...in the later years of high school? What do THOSE logistics look like? If he's only accelerated in math and still needs four years of English and four years of social studies classes and four years of science classes in high school in order to get a diploma (different rules for different states), what is he taking for math in high school (some states require four years of math while AT high school -- high school LEVEL math classes taken in elementary or middle school don't count)? How will all of THAT work? I hate the fact that decisions sometimes have to come down to stuff like that instead of what's truly best for the kid, but just some questions to make sure you get the answers to before making any decisions.

I know that I am 6 years late, but if you do decide to teach algebra to your daughter, NEVER get angry at her if she is unable to understand any aspect of it! She is still a child, after all! Although, she is probably 14, so she'd probably know algebra by this point...

Bumping this thread because it's personally relevant. Fourth grade is definitely not too early if the child shows an aptitude and interest in it. Keep it light and fun, and see where interest flows! We cover off advanced math during a "math play" hangout on weeknight evenings for 20-30 mins, often with some sort of tasty baked treat.

#nerdheaven

Our household loves AOPS for this.

Definitely a lot more quality resources for this now, nearly a decade later! And I agree, there are children who are more than ready for algebra at all kinds of ages, including typical fourth-grade-age and below.

Here's an old post (2010) which shares:

Bumping it because we just started this. Decided to do algebra and geometry at the same time.

Oh nice! We also did algebra and geometry at the same time...and actually that's one of the Common Core pathways (integrated pathway) for secondary math, as well as the way it's taught in a lot of other countries, outside of North America. (algebra I and algebra II, with geometry in parallel with both courses, completing all three in two years, vs all three in three years, in Common Core)

The Saxon-derived curricula mostly follow this too, through the 3rd edition. (Shormann is another Saxon-inspired curriculum.) Various Singapore-inspired curricula use the international sequence, and are in English (but British English, so watch out for some terminology differences--tripped us up a little on a placement test entering high school). There's also the Singapore version of ixl--I haven't used it, but it appears to have quite a bit of material a la Khan Academy.

And fwiw, I know a number of people who were on a similar schedule for secondary math. Or even earlier. Have fun!

In my mid teens, I attended our National Mathematics Summer School with the then 9 yr old Terry Tao. The experience made me realise that the right age to learn anything is when the individual is interested to do so and that’s how I parented my kids.