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DD#2 (5 yo) is in kindergarten and we had her first conference for the year today. The teacher says by DRA standards she is at a 2nd grade level in reading and improving rapidly (moved up 1/2 a grade level in about a month's time). However, she mentioned that dd's writing output (while on level for kindergarten) doesn't match the speed of her reading ability and is causing dd frustration. She also said it doesn't seem to be a problem with fine motor skills as she is great at coloring (loves to color actually). And it's not about knowing her sounds either b/c she has those down pat (including blends).

She gave some suggestions on how to work with her at home to improve her writing. Did any of your gifted children struggle like this in kindergarten and eventually catch up without intervention? The only thing dd has complained to me is about how school is boring and mornings are becoming a challenge because of this.

Our kid started kindergarten reading at about a 4th grade level, and writing like a kindergartner. He was ahead of beginning kindergarten, but not at end of kindergarten.

They moved him into a first grade classroom for language arts, and he has totally caught up to where the highest first graders are. We really didnt do much to help him at home with writing, except give him lots of opportunity to color, draw, paint, use clay, cut, etc.

DS is 6 and last year started kindergarten reading at mid second grade and finished the year at mid/end of third grade but his writing skills are slightly below average for his class. The teacher says he rushes to write down his thoughts and can't be bothered to slow down and work on neatness and spelling. So far we have not intervened in anyway.

We have used for first grade this year (I bought it on the internet) Handwriting without tears. I had my son do the first voluem and now he's on the second volume.
His handwriting went from the worst in the class to a bit above average. Probably b/c he writes more smoothly, he is writing more when they do their "Writer's Workshop."

That's what our school uses. Except instead of starting the kids on the method in K they wait until 2nd grade . Which might be why the psychologist who evaluated DS7 in 1st grade last year noted that he formed his letters oddly... DS5 is now doing quite a bit of writing/copying, and it is all a mess.

Where did you get the handbooks from?

This is very common - ability to read is different from the fine motor skills necessarily to write well (and having the stamina to write a lot). Add a lot of ideas rushing to get out of a gifted kids brain and you can see that many kids (gifted or not) may be advanced in reading and delayed (or only on grade level) in writing.

I wouldn't worry about it too much unless it was keeping a child from some form of advanced work (i.e. "no, your child can't go up a grade for LA because her writing is not at grade level"). If that was the case, you might do a bit of handwriting hothousing to bring her along (you can order handwriting without tears books online very easily). Or if you just want to support her writing (our schools don't do much in the way of penmenship) you can do the HWT or just encourage other things (as Mom of 1 suggests) that will develop fine motor skills.

I don't understand why there is still so much emphasis on handwriting in school. Who here on this board writes with pen and paper on a regular basis? Other than signing your name to a credit card receipt? They should be teaching them how to type on a keyboard at the same time they are teaching them to write. From K on.

Handwriting is not stressed anymore, but writing is. My daughter loved writing and usually scores highly. Being able to express thoughts on paper is as important as reading.

I think cursive is a waste of time, personally.
SiaSL- I googled "Handwriting without tears" and just bought it online, probably from amazon.com It was cheap. I have my first grader do a page a day. It's not difficult and his handwriting is soooo much better.
Practice, practice, practice.
I do want him to have reasonable handwriting.
SiaSL- what part of california are you from? We are in N. CA.

Quite a few of us who are parents of dysgraphic kids have found that handwriting is, in fact, stressed quite a bit in many schools. Not that it makes any sense, but just fwiw!

From my perspective, very few students develop evenly in all subjects - handwriting at grade level expectations in kindergarten isn't something I'd worry about. If your child wants to practice at home, HWOT is a good way to go, but if she'd rather do other things such as focus on reading, I'd let her do that. I do believe the reading and simply spending time wherever her natural curiousity takes her is far more valuable at this point in her education than worrying about her handwriting.

Another thought:

"However, she mentioned that dd's writing output (while on level for kindergarten) doesn't match the speed of her reading ability and is causing dd frustration."

This doesn't entirely make sense, I think what the teacher means is that her handwriting ability isn't up to speed with your dd's thought processes or the high volume of the thoughts she'd like to express. This isn't uncommon at all in the very early years of elementary, for children with any level of overall ability. Our elementary schools offered a lot of options for "writing" in K-2 grade - children didn't just write, they drew, told stories, created plays etc. If you want to help your dd develop her "written expression" have her tell you stories verbally, let her use Garage Band or something like that on the computer to record stories, or have her draw pictures to illustrate stories.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I agree that that is what the issue is. I was somewhat not surprised that she commented on dd's writing. I volunteer on a weekly basis in the classroom and have noticed that she is the top reader in the class, yet with her writing she is one of the weaker students when it comes to forming her letters. Overall I was not extremely concerned b/c she is still only 5 and it's kindergarten but when the teacher mentioned that she is getting frustrated that's when I realized that it is somewhat of an issue. My dd is not the type of student to show her emotions/frustration in a classroom, she is rather shy. So for her teacher to pick up on it it must be a fairly big problem for her.

FWIW I really commend my dd's teacher for her instruction and emphasis on correct letter formation. I work as a substitute teacher and I have subbed for many kindergarten classes where there is no real instruction on correct formation of letters. I've seen many 2nd and 3rd graders who write their letters in strange and inefficient ways.

Jack'smom, we are in Northern CA too. SF Peninsula.

maggie, I am in total agreement with you. This attitude drives me *nuts*.

I am frustrated right now with my DS5 K experience. He has done all the age appropriate preschool stuff for letter awareness. He knows his letters. But proper letter formation for speedy writing is *not* taught at our school until 1st grade.

While I am all for letting kids figure things out for themselves, to a certain extent, I don't think it is helpful in this case. Either they are too young to write, and their output should be written through a scribe, or they are not, and they should be taught the most efficient way to do it.

And this whole "do it the way you want" will *hide* problems, if there are any. His handwriting sucks? Don't worry, he'll figure it out. Three years latter: Oh, dysgraphia? Really? Maybe we could have started the OT earlier then?

Handwriting without tears for toddlers, here I come...

PS: I grew up in a school system where we were only taught cursive. It works fine. I find it way faster than printing, but that might be because I was never taught *that* skill.

The primary reason for the existence of cursive is because it's faster, so it's not just you. I was taught printing and then cursive, and speed was cited as a reason for learning cursive.

In the elementary years where writing quality is graded, I always scored poorly, regardless of whether it was printing or cursive, and I pretty much ignored the marks. My reaction was basically, "I can read it. You can read it. So where's the problem?" Stretching a ten-minute writing assignment into thirty so it could look a bit prettier was just not going to happen.

I agree that an oft-cited reason for learning cursive is speed. Another primary historical reason for the existence of cursive is that it apparently lessened stress on fragile quill pens in the old days.

Studies are scant on comparative speed of printing vs. cursive, but it turned out in the leading study that printing is slightly faster in general, that mixed styles are faster than either, and that a mixed style dominated by printing was fastest. It's also true that people are fastest with what they know best.

ETA: Found this:

One point I would make is that- the term dysgraphia is used and is a specific diagnosis. However, it could be for some of the kids that they don't like writing, they aren't good at it, etc. but they could get better with practice. My son doesn't have dysgraphia- he just was in a Montessori for 2 years where they did zero writing and we have had to play catch-up.

DS8 is radically accelerated, his pencil is not. He writes like the little kid that he is. Motor skills have nothing to do with brain power. Teaching him cursive helped a lot but all of his teachers allow him to type his assignments. I don't worry about it, he'll get it right when he needs to. He's like that. If he suddenly discovers a reason for something, he puts out the effort he needs to.

My $0.02...

DD7 has recently completed a 6-week block of OT, 1 hour a week, focusing on handwriting. Prior to commencing occupational therapy, her classroom teacher indicated that her handwriting was below the expected achievement level for year 3. The OT testing showed that her handwriting was above average for someone her age (she has been grade-skipped) hence the dilemma. I found 6 x 1 hr sessions with a dedicated therapist worked wonders. Moving away from printing and onto cursive meant that she didn't have to practise something (ie, printing) that she felt that she was "bad" at. Cursive was new, therefore she didn't expect to be great at it at first go. This attitudinal change made a huge difference and her end of year report indicated that she's now achieving at the expected level for year 3. I expect that DD will experience the same difficulties when entering year 4 next year because of the written output required. Seems like it will be a continuous cycle of catch-up...

jojo

Yep. You put it very well. Maybe I should look into teaching her cursive. She's shown interest and attempts to write in cursive so maybe I will try that route.

FWIW her school emphasizes self-expression through writing and journals (they're a magnet and this is their philosophy). So when they are journaling they are able to write freely without correction (according to the teacher this is when dd is getting frustrated). And there is a separate instruction time for the correct formation of the letters of the alphabet.

I have another question. The teacher mentioned that her reading ability/level would be higher on the DRA level if she could accurately retell the story (in the correct order that it happened). I guess in DRA they have to do this in order to move to a higher level and the teacher said it is something dd needs to work on. At home she reads at nearly a 3rd grade level but I just ask her questions about the book she read, I don't ask her to recall in order what happened in the book.

Would this have anything to do with her difficulty in writing? Organizing her thoughts? Just a thought I had.

This was the philosophy at our kids' early elementary school also, but the kids were allowed to draw and illustrate as part of their journaling when they were in K-1, and with some teachers they were allowed to type by 2nd grade while in class during journaling/creative writing time. Perhaps you could suggest something like this, or scribing, for the short term until you can see if her handwriting catches up with a little extra work?

I'd also give cursive a try if she's interested in it - one of the schools that our older dd went to for summer school when she was having difficulty with reading purposely taught cursive first before printing and it worked well for their students. My youngest dd has always liked to create stories but struggled with handwriting... anyway, her school introduces cursive in 2nd grade, and she's loving it - for her, cursive is much easier and quicker than printing. So if your dd is interested in it, I'd go ahead and teach her cursive. Another option to consider is the scripts that are semi-in-between printing and cursive. I can't remember the name of what it's called! But we considered it for awhile for our dysgraphic ds, and there are a few different scripts out there - some of which you can find directions for for free online.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I am not sure if my DS had DRA levels, but I do recall that he didn't always get the retells in the correct order when tested in kindy. I remember thinking at the time that it was odd that he would miss anything in reading/comprehension, because he had shown high ability at home. Then someone mentioned that the stories that they are testing on at the early levels are so simplistic, and not too exciting, I wouldn't be surprised if a child's mind wandered when listening to it. It might be interesting for you to try at home, to see if her recall is better with more engaging material.

Not sure if/how that has anything to do with difficulty in writing. As for writing for us, DS7 has always hated it. He's a grade-skipped 3rd grader, and probably handwrites at the lower end of age level. He doesn't like to bother with leaving a space between words either, so it makes it fun for all to try to decipher. I did notice that when he really tries, he can write very neatly, and much more so this year, so I do think there is a developmental component to it. He also can write much more (and with much more creativity) if he's typing, though he is the type of kid who will do the bare minimum whenever possible.

DS's class is learning cursive this year, and DS's cursive is so much more readable than his printing. I think it helps when he keeps his pencil to paper more in cursive.