Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional 45 Point Difference Verbal/Processing ADHD

Hello!

My 11 year old daughter was recently tested for ADHD, and it was confirmed she is affected on all three levels. In addition, it was recommended that she take an IQ test as well as we suspected that she may also be gifted. The results of the test however leave me very confused due to the large variations. The test she took was the WISC-IV. Could anyone give me any insight before I talk to the school on Monday? ... By the way, according to her standardized test scores she also reads on a freshman college level and is in fifth grade.

Verbal 136
PR 123
WM 94
Proces. 91
FSIQ 119
GAI 135

Any thoughts or ideas would be very helpful. My main concern in the vast difference between her verbal and processing.

Rebekah

From this website:


The discrepancy between the Verbal score and the Working Memory and Processing scores is very likely due to the ADHD, since attention and concentration are aspects of those constructs.

These results indicate that she is definitely gifted, but that she has challenges in the areas of working memory and processing speed. These areas almost certainly create frustration for her, and may make her feel that she is not really smart. People who are not really familiar with giftedness and the many different ways that it can manifest often equate gifted with being mentally "quick" (having high processing speed) or with having good working memory (for example, being able to do complex mental math without writing out problems). Your child is likely to NOT present this way. This does not mean that she is not gifted. Typically, gifted children with these sorts of issues do best in an environment that is providing instruction at their challenge level (which helps maintain focus and attention) with appropriate supports and accommodations (such as extended time for tests and assignments, planners, checklists, etc.) to help with organization and attention issues.

Ditto what Aculady said. My dd11 has a similar WISC profile albeit with higher VCI and PRI but similar WMI and PSI. She, too, has ADD and does not present in a school setting as nearly as gifted as her IQ scores appear. A lot of this is due to slow reading, erratic achievement, mistakes, and divergent thinking.

I've had a number of teachers insinuate that she isn't gifted at all and others who think that she is brilliant. The ones who correlate gifted with fast reproduction of taught materials don't see the gifts. The ones who see the ability to create new ideas (she developed a new way to divide in 4th grade that was quite creative), see it.

My kiddo is in a very structured middle school right now and I have mixed feeling about some of the way things are taught. They are definitely focusing on her weaknesses -- memory, attention to detail, etc. There is a good amount of drill in English in particular with sentence diagramming, working on parts of speech, structure, etc. Dd isn't great at that type of stuff and feels that her English teacher, who frequently tells them about her own gifted kids and their lexile scores, etc., doesn't understand the difference btwn gifted and high achieving (despite a Masters in GT and LD!).

On one hand, the structure is good for her to force her hand on organization and paying attention to stuff she normally doesn't. On the other hand, it really doesn't play to her strengths.

Is your dd having difficulty in school or are they able to accommodate her? We found that, despite slower PSI scores, dd11 isn't really slower at processing. Her scores on that part of the WISC were due to mistakes not speed. Extra time hasn't been an accommodation that has helped, therefore. We're trying caffeine (tea), gum chewing in class, and supplements with omega 3s. I'm also trying to get magnesium into her but she fights me on everything and getting her to take one supplement seems to be the most I can do at this point.

My dd also had similar results with high VCI and PRI but much lower in WMI and PSI and what you wrote speaks volumes to me. She is extremely frustrated in school and thinks she's stupid because she has trouble retaining simple info and doesn't get things as quick as others. So b/c of this she thinks she's stupid, which couldn't be further from the truth. It's very disheartening for me and I don't know how to get her to understand that she's actually very intelligent. I wish I could get her to see her strengths instead of focusing on her weaknesses.

FWIW my ds (11) has similar discrepancies between processing speed and VIQ/PRI on the WISC, and he doesn't have ADHD, although he has some overlapping symptoms (organizational challenges primarily). His diagnoses are dysgraphia, expressive language disorder and developmental coordination disorder. When he was first diagnosed at 8, his neuropsych felt he might have mild ADHD but after we accommodated etc for the other challenges his behaviors that appeared to be ADHD related disappeared.

You've got enough testing to show that there's the potential for a challenge, but not the full breadth of testing you will get from a full neuropsych eval; a neuropsychologist will perform additional tests to determine why processing speed and working memory are lower than the other ability scores and that's info that will be invaluable in helping your dd.

FWIW, our ds' WM score went up significantly from the time he was first tested in 2nd grade to when he was tested again prior to middle school - it's now up close to his VIQ/PRI (processing speed is still relatively low). I don't know why, but I have vague memories of things I've read about indicating that WM is one area where you can improve if you work at it. Don't ask me how - I'm clueless! But it's something perhaps to be encouraged by?

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - can you tell us a little bit about why your dd was tested for ADHD? Was it due to challenges at school, at home, what type of challenges etc. We might be able to brainstorm some accommodations that would be helpful to request at school if you can give us a bit more info.

That's what my oldest's profile looked like the one time she took the WISC (high VCI, PRI, and WMI and low-avg PSI). She, too, does not have ADD and she presents quite differently than her sister. Her very good memory has been extremely helpful to her in school and she's a kid who is easily recognized as gifted by teachers, schools, etc.

Ditto what everyone has said -you have a very bright daughter with difficulties that may affect how efficiently she takes information in and creates output/ demonstrates her knowledge. I'm not sure if the school did any testing beyond the WISC? But, if you not, you may want to consider a full neuropsychological evaluation. The WISC alone, cannot give you complete insight into her learning profile. It is not unusual for people with score patterns such as your daughters to have challenges/snags in other areas. With more understanding of her needs and strengths, you will have a better time supporting her in a complete and effective way.

DS8 has a 46 point difference bt VCI and PSI. When he did the WISC, the neuropsych was not that concerned about it. However, since the he has been diagnosed with ADHD after additional testing and analysis. He is a slow writer and had major difficulty with writing output at the beginning of the semester. He has been working on it in class and we at home. I bought type to learn to get him keyboarding faster, he has a recorder at home so he can dictate and/or he dictates to us and we type. He has attention issues at school that we are also working on. I agree that further testing really will help figure out what is going on.

Great Post Aculady and Cricket 2 -
My son has very high Verbal and Perceptual and high Working Mem, but similar to your child in Processing Speed. He did turn out to have ADHD, but it took a gradeskip and puberty before the picture became clear to me. Challenging material (and medication) help him focus and he's been doing very well lately.

The first thing to consider is that the difference between 90 and 100 is very small - because you are in the 'meaty middle.' So you can say that the Processing speed is average. If it weren't for the internal stress of having so much to say, then it wouldn't be a problem. I call this a 'bottleneck' instead of a 'disability' although there is no official term as far as I know. Still it's enough for the child to feel uncomfortable inside their own skin.

Best Wishes,
Grinity