Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional When is it more than just being gifted?

I am starting to become extremely concerned with my daughter who will be 4 at the end of this month. We took at her to a psychologist at the age of 3 because of her behaviors. She had already been diagnosed with SPD but she also had problems with temper tantrums that would last for hours, the inability to snap back to "normal" after her fits, short temper, auditory stimulation by using a monotone hum when doing anything that requires concentration, and very rigid and routine behaviors like having to count her steps every night from the exact same spot before she could go to bed. She also had an intense obsession with the color yellow and if anyone touched something yellow, she became very upset because that was her color and they might ruin it. Those are just a few examples. The psychologist, to our surprise, gave her an IQ test and sure enough, her scores put her well into the gifted category. He explained that many of her behavior could be attributed to her giftedness and that at that time, he did not see ASD but wasn't ruling it out either. Just a little sidenote, my son (2.5) was diagnosed with Autism and Hyperlexia by the same psychologist.

Fast forward to now, almost a year later. Some of her former behaviors, like counting her steps and obsessing over yellow have gone away. She still has the monotone hum and some sensory issues, especially with what I'm thinking may be hyperacusis. Her fits are still horrible and actually worse as they are starting to become more violent and verbal. She is unable to pull herself together and will shut down for hours. Sometimes we cannot even talk about the problem that set her off until the next day. Generally the things that set her off are minor but she has everything sequenced out in her brain if the sequence is broken, she loses it. It can be something as little as putting the left shoe on before the right. She has control issues as well and gets upset about things like people not walking orderly on the left or right sides of hallways or the sun not coming up at the exact time she wanted it too. No matter how hard I try, I cannot convince her that it's going to be ok and we cannot control everything in our world. There are days it's just too hard to leave the house because I fear the world will be too chaotic for her that day and not only do I have to deal with her meltdown, but I've also got my Autistic son to deal with which is stressful in itself.

When her IQ testing was preformed, there was some concern in her scores indicating there might be an issue with listening comprehension. I would have just chalked it up to age but she really does have issues with understanding what is being said to her. I took her in for an eval with an SLP who said she did have some auditory perception issues. She is currently in therapy for that.

Every therapist we have seen has said she is too young for an Asperger's dx but that it cannot be ruled out. What has me and everyone else thrown off though is how overly social she is. When I say overly social, I mean the kind of kid who smothers you and won't shut up for two seconds. She is so social, that it's actually awkward. If you have ever seen the movie Autism: The Musical, she is much like Wyatt in how talkative she is. She sustains eye contact, at least from what I can tell.

At what point does it go from just being issues stemming from giftedness to something more? Any clue what is going on here? Or is this typical behavior for a gifted a preschooler? Having a young gifted child is isolating but having one who is gifted with extreme behavior issues feels like living in a dark cave. I am so desperate for help.

It sounds like much more is going on than being gifted - do you think the evaluator you took your dd to previously understands that children can be intellectualy gifted plus have a disability all wrapped up in the same child? I am not sure that you're dd is too young for an Asperger's diagnosis, I have a friend who's child was diagnosed much younger than your dd. Have you thought about yet another eval or opinion? Do you need a diagnosis at this point in time - for yourself? For school?

I also have some skepticism about IQ tests on very young children - each of my two oldest kids had IQ tests when they were young. My older dd had her first IQ test at 4 when she was suffering from extreme anxiety. Her test came out quite high - a later test when she was in 2nd grade showed the same patterns in her subtest scores but the actual scores came in lower overall. Our ds, otoh, has had extremely consistent results each time he's had his IQ tested... but he has a disability tied to his processing speed, and when he had his first IQ test at 5 (for admission to a gifted program), that discrepancy showed up clearly and the evaluator shrugged it off as "he's just a slowpoke by nature" and it wasn't until two years later when ds was about to completely melt down from anxiety that a different professional, looking at the same pattern, saw that it was a red flag for a possible disability.

polarbear

The guy we took her too is supposedly the go to guy for Autism and IQ in this region of the state. He thought the scores actually came out to low (even though they are not low as far as IQ goes) and her SLP also believes they are too low based on other scores from non- IQ tests (like PPVT) as well as her abilities. Truthfully, that kind of scares me!

Even my son's therapists who have gotten to know my daughter say they wouldn't rule out Asperger's but they aren't sure that's what it is either. I see her at her worst and wonder if they did too that they would then think that yes, she is somewhere on the spectrum.

Can ASD kids be overly social? She loves to cuddle and will talk to everyone and says everyone is her friend but like I said earlier, it's awkward because it is so over the top.

She is so much like her brother yet she isn't. I can't quite put my finger on it and apparently neither can any professional! I guess I need the diagnosis for myself simply to figure out how to help her. We are out of ideas as nothing seems to really work to help her with some of her more troubling issues.

It sounds like there is more going on to me, I wonder whether the extent of it might be due to her being a girl and gifted? Either of those things can make other issues like ADHD or ASD harder to diagnose, both together and you really want to be consulting with someone who is very experienced with 2E kids.

Isn't there some hypersocial spectrum-esque diagnosis out there somewhere?

I remember seeing that on one of the Discovery Health shows I used to watch before it became the 24-hour Oprah channel.

We cross posted. My understanding is that yes you can get extroversion and Aspergers - the result being awkward interactions because they child still can't figure out the social cues any more than if they were introverted.

For what it is worth we are waiting for an ASD assessment for our 9yr old daughter. She's extroverted and makes eye contact and has great empathy, but she only shows that empathy in situations of overt need as she doesn't notice it's needed until there is screaming, crying, blood, etc. A sad face would be unlikely to result in a hug.

I am searching right now for anything related to being hypersocial and autism but am coming up empty handed. I just keep finding articles about ADHD (I guess that could be a possibility) and Williams Syndrome which I'm 99.9% sure she doesn't have.

It could have been Williams Syndrome they were talking about. I honestly can't recall. It would seem to be pretty easy to see if someone has that problem, if Wikipedia is accurate.

Aren't there a number of autism related sensory processing disorders, too?

Was there any mention made of anxiety with her evaluations? I ask because my friend's daughter has severe anxiety and it manifests in intense control issues and tantrums/fits that escalate beyond what I would adequately describe in a post. They are literally held hostage by her behaviour. The littlest of things can set her off and then it is like watching a train about to derail... you can see it coming but you can't do a thing to stop it.

I wish I had more to add or offer. ((hugs))

I am so very out of my realm of experience, but as I read your posts my first thought was that some of her behaviors remind me of a relative who has OCD. The behavior includes being very talkative/monopolizing a conversation, as well as being very social.

I wish this was easier for you, and every parent who is trying to figure out what's going on with a child, based on their behavior. My heart goes out to you, as your situation sounds really challenging. I hope you have people nearby to lean on. And I hope you find some help here on the board, as well.