Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Need input: kids not challenged in math

We moved our kids to a new school that has lots going for it, but we are having a problem with both our 2nd grader and 4th grader in math. The school is new and is trying to figure out how to differentiate instruction. Both our kids "walked to math" in their previous school, walking to the next grade level. Now they are repeating the same curriculum as last year.

There are a handful of kids affected, and the school decided that rather than advance the kids a year they'd "go deeper" with differentiation. I've talked with the kids' teachers and they are really working to figure it all out. But they've got their hands full with a huge range of abilities and attempts to apply the school's values (self direction and group work) in math.

I think they will ultimately figure it out, but in the interim what do I do for my kids? My 4th grader tests very high in math, likes it, and picks up just about whatever you give her. The school encourages the use of Kahn at school and home and my daughter likes it.

But I feel like she shouldn't just be tooling around Kahn but have some focus and practice in specific areas. I can look at what she is doing now and scan for some practice at the next level (or few levels) of difficulty....but then what happens next year? Would she be constantly ahead of everyone and never getting instruction, just kind of working it out with me and figuring things out for herself with Kahn as an instructor? That doesn't seem good. Like we could mess up her foundation somehow and not even know it.

She's happy at school and developing in other areas and is challenged by her piano teacher....maybe I should not worry about her treading water in math for a year. Will it really hurt her, or will her natural abilities in math pick back up when she needs them?

My younger daughter isn't as advanced but is still repeating what she's done before. I trust the top notch staff of this new school to figure it out, they know it's not working yet and they don't need me breathing down their necks.

What would you do?

Thanks for any input,

Namaste

I'm too tired to write much, but I personally feel that if a child has completed a year of a math curriculum and is proficient in it, spending another year repeating the same curriculum in "more depth" is a waste of their time. They already know the material. The VP at DS6's school used the same line with us, but we did end up getting DS and the one other 1st grader who took 1st grade math last year into 2nd grade math this year. It was a logical continuation for them.

Is there any way your school would be willing to make an exception to their "we don't accelerate, we differentiate" rule for new children who have truly already had the entire year's math curriculum? I can understand differentiating if they hadn't already learned all the information, but really, how much deeper can one go in 2nd grade math? If they're not figuring out how to differentiate and won't accelerate, I'd think that some independent learning would be better than sitting through the same material again. Others here have more BTDT experience with older children and might have some better advice and more specific resources about independent learning than my tired brain at the moment.

Our ds was at a school that was adamant about not accelerating when he was in elementary, and our ds was extremely bored in math. We used ALEKS (www.aleks.com) as additional math curriculum outside of school, and when he was ready to enter middle school we were able to take the work he'd done in ALEKS and use it as proof he was capable of accelerated work. ALEKS courses are all tied to state standards and students have to work their way through the courses in a way that they aren't allowed to tackle topics except in a logical building-upon-previous-skills order. DS essentially self-studied his way through it.

polarbear

I'll give my standard suggestion which is: hard problems, solvable using techniques your kids already know, are FAR FAR more valuable to mathematical development than learning new techniques (i.e., doing the next chunk of curriculum). That's what I'd be pushing for. Fortunately there are lots and lots of options including some free ones out there, at lots of different levels so it should be possible to find something that's challenging without being impossible. Look at (or get the school teachers to look at) the various Olympiads and maths competitions for questions. Ah yes, here's a thread with various suggestions that might be relevant, including the ones that I suggested 5 posts down in it (saves me retyping!)

We did something like that in my second grade class, where every morning we had to copy addition/subtraction problems down from the chalkboard with increasing numbers of columns and rows, and it nearly killed my interest in math. Yes, they were more challenging, but it was still the same boring process we'd done a thousand times.

With gradually increasing frequency, the teacher would grade morning math papers and find mine missing. When she'd ask me for it, I'd defiantly tell her I didn't do it. She'd ask the girl that sits next to me to dig through the mess of my desk and find the paper I'd started all wadded up. Then she'd make me smooth it out and finish it.

I was a bit of an apple-polisher in school, so acting out in this way was a HUGE exception to my norm. And it's not like I had no interest or talent in math, because I participated in and won awards in district math competitions in junior high. It's just that doing the same thing every morning, even with increasing complexity, was more than I could bear.

My point is that enrichment and acceleration are actually two very different teaching strategies, and I'm not sure that, in the case of math, enrichment is a useful approach.

Our daughter is now in 9th grade. I have spent years worrying if she is "challenged" enough. Now, she is in Algebra II and is making 100s on exams and homework. She totally gets math - not just makes the grades, but loves it and sees the patterns and enjoys it. She has taken all opportunities offered to her in math.

She will complete Calculus II before college. She wants to be a Dermatologist and will be required to take through Calculus II.

Maybe it all worked out fine.

I am considering signing up for Aleks for my DS7. He's so very bored in 2nd grade math. They've spent the past 6weeks or so doing simple add/subtract word problems. He did that same stuff last year. He asked his teacher if he could do some multiplication and she told him they would get to that later in the year! Exactly how many months can they possibly need to practice adding and subtracting! Once we get Ethan tested I am hoping to get him some differentiated work, at least, but in the mean time, I think Aleks.com might be good for him.

Just last week I was having a conversation with DD6 about math, and I told her it was my experience that math was somewhat boring, and then came Algebra, and suddenly it was interesting and fun. DW confirmed that being her experience as well.

DD wanted to know what I was talking about, so I laid out a simple algebra problem, and worked through it. She wanted more. She actually wanted me to teach her algebra right then and there.

These kids...

Extremely helpful, thank you all.

Colinsmum, great links on that other thread and I plan to explore them well.

My question now: I think the school is trying to keep the plane aloft right now. My DD10's teachers (team teachers-2 share the job) are trying to figure out how to challenge this very diverse class. I went to talk to them about this issue about a month ago, and mentioned that my DD and I sometimes work Math Olympiad problems. Teachers asked me to send in the book to look at and DD said she overheard them discussing how to use it. Last night she pulled out her math workbook from last year and pointed to a page and said, "We did this today."

So the teachers "get it" (I think), and are trying, but she's still doing work that she completed a year ago (and it wasn't even hard then) and each day she and other advanced students get one enrichment page but not really enough time to dig into it (10 minutes at the desk-work "station") then off to games or computer or direct learning from teacher.

Do I a) take away some of her reading and free time and try to do the enrichment activities (from links such as Colinsmum provided) at home daily;
b) not worry too much because she'll likely be like Ellipses' DD and she's not going to lose her abilities and she's not really bored (probably because very little direct instruction time); or c) go with Coll's suggestion and fight the battle at school to get her into the 5th grade for math (noting here that we are using Everyday Math, which I don't even like, so maybe going up a year in a so-so curriculum is not that great an option).

With respect to option A, I don't want to sour her on math by forcing her to take time away from other things to work on it. As of now she enjoys math.

DD8 is a separate problem....not as proficient as DD10 but still repeating last year's material.

Thanks again for the valuable input, and I hope to hear what you think of the above options!

namaste

Personally, I wouldn't take away free time or reading time, you don't want her to see it as punishment. I'd focus on getting the school to accommodate her better.