Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional IQ Subtest Score Variations + WJ-III Cog vs WISC

I'm trying to understand some of the variability in my ds' IQ subtest scores - I have a few questions, hopefully this won't be too confusing! Thanks for taking a look -

My ds is 11 years old, 2E, diagnosed with Developmental Coordination Disorder, Fine Motor Dysgraphia, Expressive Language Disorder (primary impact is on written expression, but as he's gotten older we've seen that it impacts oral expression too).

DS has had several IQ tests in his life:

WJ-III Cognitive Abilities at 5 (to qualify for school district gifted program)
WPSSI at 5 (to qualify for school district gifted program)
WISC-IV at 8 (neuropsych eval to determine why he was falling apart, DCD etc first diagnosed)
WJ-III Cognitive Abilities at 10 (part of IEP eligibility review for SLD/written expression)
WISC-IV at 11 (neuropsych three-year follow-up prior to middle school)

His processing speed has been consistently slow relative to his other areas of ability throughout each test - this is extremely consistent and the discrepancy is large (> 2SD)

He has hit the ceiling on WISC subtests both times he took it, but not in the same area - in 2nd grade he hit the ceiling in the VIQ subtests, in 2011 he hit the ceiling in the PRI subtests. He wasn't given the extended WISC on either eval.

He has subtest scatter *within* VIQ/PRI SS but not greater than 1 SD - does this mean this subtest scatter is not significant? I'm guessing the subtest scatter would be greater if he hadn't hit ceilings on the WISC, but I don't know that it would increase it to > 1 SD.

Is it unusual to see VIQ vs PRI scores change *relative* to each other over time? DS' early testing always had VIQ as his strength, 9-10 pts higher than his PRI. In his 2011 WISC testing this flip-flopped, PRI was 11 pts higher than VIQ. VIQ in 2011 was 11-12 pts lower than in 2008 and 2005.

WJ-III Cognitive Ability test - is there a reference online that compares WJ-III subtests to WISC subtests (re what they measure)? I'm also looking for an explanation of the WJ-III clusters.

How significant are discrepancies in the WJ-III Cog. Abilities test cluster scores? DS' thinking ability vs verbal ability cluster scores are separated by 32 pts, which is significantly higher than the separation in VIQ/PRI on his WISC scores. His thinking ability and phonemic awareness cluster are very close, working memory is 30 pts lower than Thinking Ability. Cognitive Efficiency is lower, but this score is significantly impacted the subtest impacted by his fine motor disability so I understand the variation in it.

Any thoughts?

Also last question - we don't have a neuorpsychologist who specializes in 2E in our area. I am considering whether or not to consult with an out-of-state neuropsych as we look forward to high school and college planning. I like and respect the neuropsych that tested ds here where we live, but wonder if having the extra insight from a professional who is well-versed in 2E would help.

Thanks so much for your input,

polarbear

Would you be able to post his WISC & WJ scores (subtests and index scores) using standard/scaled score and percentile rank? It would be easier to understand the subtest scatter and other patterns that you describe.

The standard deviation for each test is 15. Generally, 2 standard deviations (30 points) is considered significant. Scores can fluctuate, especially when the child is young. Cognition does not always develop evenly across all domains, and this is often reflected in the scores. Patterns of strength and weakness often emerge over time, even if the actual scores change.

It is not surprising me that some of the efficiency scores might be lower given the dysgraphia. One thing to try to tease out is whether or not his processing is an overall weakness, or only something that shows up with a motor component.

This website has good info about both the WISC and WJ cog as well as other tests http://alpha.fdu.edu/~dumont/psychology/

What concerns do you have? Was there testing in any other domains (academic, memory, visual and auditory processing, executive functioning)? What kind of help are you looking for re HS and college? Depending upon what you are looking for, a neuropsychologist may be able to help, but maybe an ed consultant would be better.

Do you mean extended scoring? It depends how many subtests he ceilinged each time. It would be helpful to have some of the scores you've described.

Yep, I meant extended scoring. I'm not sure I really understand that since I'd thought the extended scoring meant that extra questions were offered, so I was confused and need to read up on it. What happened was ds received a "19" on the subtest and the neuropsych told us he had answered all the subtest questions correctly, didn't have any incorrect answers.

I don't have a copy of the raw scores but I can get them.

Thanks for your reply,

polarbear

His neuropscyh testing (both times) and his school IEP testing included achievement testing, and his neuropsych evals have included ef/memory/etc testing, he's had developmental optometrist, OT and SLP etc evals so I feel we have his disability fairly well understood - what I have questions about are the impact of his disability on his ability/IQ testing - this may be a chicken and egg type question that has no answer, but did the change in relative strength of PRI vs VIQ happen because his challenges with expressive language become more meaningful as he gets older or do his challenges artificially lower the scores?

Thanks so much for your input,

polarbear