Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Age or Ability Specific Forums Pre-school Preschool 2011-2012

Hi,

Thought I would start a "How is school going for your preschooler?" thread as I haven't seen one going yet for this year.

DS4 is at a mixed age (3-5) half day structured sort of preschool. So far it's not as good as last year at a progressive sort of play based place, that one is not an option this year.

The main teacher at the new preschool is very open minded in some ways. She is actively trying to get to know him and I think he's beginning to like her. So that is good.

But it's a get ready for K sort of place. Of our choices it has one of the largest amounts of play, but sit down pay attention is still a large portion of the day. DS complains every time we go and generally when I've snuck a peek in he's not looking thrilled, when I pick him up he rushes out happy to leave (very unlike last year). Even subject matter he normally would like he doesn't there because the level is not right. For example his class is discussing how leaves fall off trees in the fall. He'd be more interested to hear that some broad leaved tree species are not deciduous in equatorial biomes.

The teacher describes him as sometimes engaged and seeming to enjoy it (I notice this is mainly days when he hasn't been in a long time) but mostly "tuned out". They have a variety of punishment systems and so far he's not been made to get to know those, except for a couple time outs for reasonable things.

The teacher openly says in a depressed voice that he's so far ahead she doesn't know what to do, and shrugs as if to say how can she be expected to know what to do. That to me seems like a good open-minded attitude in comparison with what it could be, it's probably the best I could hope for.

Because their program is so structured I'm not sure what to suggest to help -- I don't have ideas for how to differentiate for him that still include him still sitting there in the lengthy group times. I do notice they have put out some more complex books than they had out the first day although that could still use improvement.

The group of kids he'd like to play with at play time apparently tells him to go away. So that's not good. (At least there is a group he'd like to play with, there's potential in that). DS is bossy and controlling, his vocabulary is a bit different, and his enunciation is poor. Honestly if I was 4 or 5 I probably wouldn't want to play with him either. We are cracking down more at home about not playing "his way" so much, we have been way too indulgent about that -- hopefully that will help him get used to playing what other kids want to at least sometimes. Once in a while he has a great play experience at a park etc that I hope will sustain him in the meantime.

At home he's randomly gotten interested in learning Spanish, and has asked to take drawing lessons, so we'll do some things like that this fall.

We are also working on combatting his major fear these days of swinging too high and thus depriving himself of oxygen.

So how is preschool going for everyone else?

Polly

DS3 is loving preschool! He goes to a play-based school for 2.5hrs twice a week. They are semi-structured, but the main focus of every activity is to have fun, be respectful and polite, and to have more fun. One of his teachers also taught our DD and is now her art teacher. She assures us that he is doing great and having a great time. All the other teachers comment about his love for life and that he is one of the happiest children they have ever met.

To be critical, they are covering topics that he already knows (colours, shapes, numbers, etc) but he enthusiastically involves himself with all of the activities. It is such a small part of his day that I don't think he even notices that it is too easy for him. He would much rather focus on using all the red paint and commandeering the drive-on tractor during gym time. He is also learning to be more independent and to use his listening ears and inside voice. I am happy to cover any and all topics that interest him at home. Preschool is satisfying his social needs.

Mr W (3y7m) is in an all-day academic preK with 4 and 5 year olds. The material in PreK is Kindergarten level for the local publics.

They spend 2.5 hours in the AM and the same in the PM doing letters & words, writing, numbers, and then art in a rotating stations. They are read to twice a day. He plays outside for 30 min at least twice a day.

He knows all of the standard material in the class, so they give him worksheets from the 1st grade work books to do which he mostly does perfectly. For example, he is working on number sequences and filling the blanks, ie 1,3,5,, and spelling of simple words like F_ll or S_mmer.

He loves to sing and they introduce new songs every other week and he gets twice weekly piano lessons with the 5 year old kids.

He also gets to read on his own during nap time which is 1.5 hours - he does not nap. He can fluently read level 1/2 books on his own silently.

His comment to me after his first day was, "Daddy, the kids can talk!" when I picked him up.

The staff has been great, with just one funny comment when Mr W first started after they saw his age but she is now a big supporter. But Mr W's weakest skill, writing, is on par with the best kid in class - and he is very charming, too.

We had the option of starting him in K, but wanted to take things slow - and we already know that Mr W's target school for 1st will not take him as a 4.5 year old.

The school did assess him without asking us last week but to their credit, it was to make sure they were giving him appropriate self-study material. He has a baseline achievement test coming up and they already know not to use any age-based ceilings.

And best of all, he wants to go to school every day.

Sounds like a good fit Austin!

We hope so, too! He is enjoying it right now and is a sweet kid at home.

We thought his Montessori was a good fit, too, until he'd been in "primary" for a few weeks and his behavior issues began. If not for this board and reading all the posts, we'd not be sensitive to early warning signs.

Right now he is happy there so he'll more than likely finish Prek at 4 and then start K and finish that when he is 5.

We started ALEKS at home along with teaching him adult card games. He gets to stay up until 9 reading books as well. He has a ton of games on his computer now.

After he turns 5, the plan gets murky. We don't want him to sit out a year. But all schools throw up a lot of roadblocks for early entrance to 1st for five year olds. We think we can make adjustments now to ensure that any testing does not stop him, ie writing or specific achievement tests.

Our options for him at 5 years include early entrance to 1st at a Tier 1 private, or go into a PG program for a year at a public, then transfer into 2nd at to a Tier 1 private when he is 6. Then he will have options to accelerate for subjects easily in a school that routinely does it all under one roof.

Mr W is very social and extremely popular so he will love the school experience. But to develop fully, he will also need a high level of instruction in math and science that only PHD/MS in Math instructors can offer. This pretty much limits us to just a handful of schools.

Don't get too excited. One district will ability group them from 1st on, but the curriculum is really just working two grades ahead. Its fine for two years I am told then you need another option. Its the equivalent of skipping into 3rd when starting 1st.

Yes, in some of the privates a few kids each year start algebra in the 5th grade with calculus in the 9th grade with independent study in college level subjects after that. In some others, the kids can take college level courses after maxing out the math.

All of the privates here have a very strong commitment to supporting less fortunate but highly motivated kids with tuition assistance as well. PG kids have a very good shot of getting into any private no matter their parents' means. Given the choices in the DFW area, I am becoming convinced, after a year of researching this, that the private option should be the first choice for GT kids in the DFW area.

I've been checking out other preschool options more carefully and may have found a possible alternative to what DS4 is in now. I feel so relieved to have found even another possibility in our remote area! This school is a perfect example of a preschool style being determined by the teacher rather than the name on the sign, and why it's worth it to visit every single school.

This new one is an AMI montessori and the sign implies a heavy faith basis, but as it turns out the individual teacher is so relaxed in philosophy that most of what I saw during "work" time was actually free social play. It's spiritual side is limited and seems not too different than the time devoted to the pledge of allegiance at the old school.

It's small, and 3 of the kids are noticeably older than DS. The book the teacher read at group time had lots of words per page, actual text. They had actual conversation at group time. The group time was short. The teacher:student ratio is 1:5. There are downsides like time it starts and ratio of genders and intolerance of aggressive looking play-acting, but overall it seems like a way better fit.

There is not a kid who slaps other kids when the teacher isn't looking (at least I didn't see one), and no teachers saying phrases like, "zip your lips" in a semi yell, both things I saw when I observed recently in his current preschool.

So the next step is having DS go to the new one for a visit. We have had an awful lot of change in the last months so I really don't even know how to approach the idea with him -- as unpleasant as I now personally find his current school, he is used to it at this point and it's a lot to consider changing. My plan is have him visit the new one a few times "just to check it out" and make his own decision about where to attend.

I would be really interested to hear from anyone who considered switching preschool/K type schools part way in and had their child attend days at the new one before exiting the old. How did you approach that with your child? What did your child decide? Did any decide to stick with their old school just out of being in a comfortable rut with it? Did they choose the new school just because it was novel rather than fundamentally a better fit? How did you help them make a good choice but without manipulating them?

Thanks,

Polly

Mr W was at a Montessori prior to his current school. Things were fine until he moved into the class with the 3-5 year olds. It was not much of a move.

He exhausted the opportunities of his "primary" class there in four months. He had two 5 year olds in with him and the rest were his age. They did little writing, reading, and there were few books and the puzzles were 18 piece or less and the other toys were on the same level. In other words, at 3 he was working on stuff he knew at 18 months. He was withdrawing into himself and spent the majority of the day just goofing off with nothing that interested him. At home he became "spacey" not listening to us and just running around smashing stuff together rather than the boy we known before who sat and read his books, focused for hours on his computer, or who engaged with us for hours. He also did not want to go to school.

They "assessed" him with an in-house achievement test and then proudly presented it to us. They stopped at the 3 year old skills and did not go any further. All the stuff they assessed him on he had known for years and almost all of the 4 and 5 year old stuff he already knew. The teacher said he had a problem doing his work, which consisted of doing the 18 piece puzzle he could do when he was less than a year old. When I asked if she thought he was bored, she said no. LOL. It was pretty clear that he'd be stuck in there for the next two years. Not good.

We briefly looked at trying to get him into the K program there, but as he had just turned 3, the size difference was too much. We also looked at moving him to another room, but everything was the same. He was too far ahead of what they could offer.

So. We started looking for an academic Prek/K program that was flexible with stuff that had a component that he did NOT know and which introduced new material and found one that would work. We then began the discussion about Mr W's skills and what our current problems were and they agreed to bump him up on a trial basis.

Mr W visited the new school during the early part of the school day and did not want to leave. His visit was a big hit as well and helped the executive director feel comfortable with skipping him. We then had to give the other school notice. Mr W spent the next two days talking about his new school, and he was such a pest about it, that the old one relieved us of the 30 day notice and we moved him the next Monday.

The first day of school with the older kids he told us he really liked it and thanked us for moving him. A few weeks later the director said he was a great fit and we could put him in PreK or K our choice. He started Prek a few weeks ago and is still very happy.

We just recently started play dates with his 4/5 year old classmates and its still a secret that he is 3. He fits in great and you cannot tell that he is the youngest by 11 months.

Hi Austin,

What did the 5 year olds at Mr W's montessori spend their time doing?

I haven't ever seen a preschool with appropriate level materials just out available to use. Sometimes things are in a closet or up on top of a cabinet, but DS will not just go up to a teacher and say he is bored and ask what else there is, instead he will use imagination to make do. Stuff needs to be out.

This montessori teacher looks like she may be going to be open to changing materials somewhat. Thank you for your puzzle comment as that makes me realize to address that specifically (they had a 26 piece out but it was one that DS liked 2 years ago). I have a random selection of puzzles that DS hasn't done yet that I can rotate through there if she'll allow it.

We discussed books specifically (I accidently blurted out, "I don't see many books"), she said she would welcome donated books and be glad to make them available. The few books she had out were actually reasonable in level, so in that domain she was clearly following the needs of the two readers in the class rather than the pre-readers. I am hoping it's a strategy she applies to other areas as well.

That Mr. W moved through everything available to him in 4 months concerns me some. I do worry with a small class size and limited materials perhaps DS will be bored in 4 or 6 months. It certainly seems like those 4 or 6 months would be happier ones than at the current place though, so probably worth it even if the fit only lasted that long.

Polly