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    #112477 09/26/11 07:55 AM
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    My son was tested on the WISC-IV at 7 years-7 months his results are as follows:

    Verbal comprehension
    Similarities 16
    Vocabulary 15
    Comprehension 15

    Perceptual Reasoning
    Block Design 15
    Picture Concepts 15
    Matrix Reasoning 16

    Working Memory
    Digit Span. 11
    Arithmetic 12

    Processing Speed
    Coding 10
    Symbol Search 13

    Verbal Comprehension 132
    Perceptual Reasoning 133
    Working Memory 107
    Processing Speed 109
    Full Scale IQ 129
    GAI 139

    Woodcock Johnson III
    Academic Skills 113 3.0 high average
    Academic Applications 117 3.5 high average
    Brief Achievement 114 3.1 high average
    Brief Reading 115 3.6 High Average
    Brief Math 135 4.1 Gifted
    Brief Writing 95 38 Average
    Broad Math 132 3.9 Gifted

    Last year we were at a school that does one year advanced math along with kumon. My son hated kumon and did not excel because of it being timed. We changed schools for two reasons we were looking for a place that would level them individually in reading and a school that was a little larger.

    Here is where I need advice.
    His new teacher leveled him at 2.5 reading level because of his inference skills. He is a major perfectionist and does not want to tell you what he thinks will happens because
    he knows he may not be correct. Not sure if I should advocate to get him moved up to where he should be reading at least mid third or just let it go. If I do advocate not sure how to proceed.

    Second question they have him doing second grade math which he did last year at school. He is still not completing his math work at school and it gets sent home. It takes him forever to do math. He does not memorize any math facts ever. I'm really at a loss because the work should be super easy. I would say he is just bored but we
    faced this problem last year as well. Can a child have a attention problem but just in one subject area?

    I really appreciate any insight all of you have.


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    Originally Posted by Jenniferok
    Second question they have him doing second grade math which he did last year at school. He is still not completing his math work at school and it gets sent home. It takes him forever to do math. He does not memorize any math facts ever. I'm really at a loss because the work should be super easy. I would say he is just bored but we
    faced this problem last year as well. Can a child have a attention problem but just in one subject area?
    He isn't 'just bored' - although he may well be quite bored - but the WISC clearly shows that his 'intellectual power' is very high and his ability to handle school is going to be low. WM and PS are the foundation of what elementary schools want from kids - because they (usually) firmly believe that kids aren't developmentally ready for abstract thinking.

    see http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/analogies.htm
    Quote
    Spread His Wings and Fly!
    My son was "invisible" to the School Folks at his old school. I made up a story in my mind that his giftedness was like a pair of huge, heavy, invisible wings, that most teachers couldn't see. These wings were filled with light, and sparkled so brightly that looking directly at them could be painful.

    Most people only saw the way those invisible wings knocked things over and made my son wobble when he walked. Everyone could tell he was different, and most thought he was just clumsy and awkward, and he was clumsy at walking, flying and sitting at a desk. His flying was clumsy because he was young and inexperienced, but I did sometimes observe tremendous grace. But didn't every mother find her own child to be miraculous at times?

    There was almost no place to practice flying during the school day. We were concerned that he hold his wings politely in and not knock over the other children. It was sad that he came home so tired and worn out from holding those wings tightly against his body, but we didn't know what else to do. The wings would take care of themselves until the wonderful day when he could use them, wouldn't they?

    It doesn't work quite that way, and we got quite an education. I'm grateful to my son for opening my eyes. It is sad as it is when a teacher doesn't see a child's wings. But there isn't anything sadder than a winged person who can't see his own wings, but only feels a vague heavy weight, and sees people around him get mysteriously knocked down.

    The number one reason for educating ourselves about gifted issues, and unraveling our own pasts, is to be able to hold a mirror up to our children so they can see and understand themselves better, strengths and challenges both. -- Grinity


    My son's Working Memory scores were more 'high average' but his highs were higher and his speed scores were lower. It got in his way - once he got to Middle School level the teachers start to anticipate the development of deeper thinking and things got better. We called it a 'bottleneck' as his lows weren't quite low enough to qualify as a 'learning disability' but they were hard on him.

    DS15 also has '2E' issues - and getting those unraveled has helped so much.

    The good news is that kids are flexible, and lots of WM and PS skills can be trained. The bad news is that this isn't fun at all. We avoided things like Kumon - but looking back, I think he would have benifited from the 'drill and kill' approach - if we could have gotten him to do it.

    I don't like the idea of holding a child back to their biggest challenge - but sooner or later, it is important to circle around and catch all the challenge areas.

    I was always on the edge of ordering Times Tables the Fun Way: Book for Kids: A Picture Method of Learning the Multiplication Facts [Spiral-bound]
    Judy Liautaud

    but DH was in charge of drive to school and spent those 10 minutes every day of 3rd grade doing 'drill' so that got the job done. If it had been left in my hands, I'm quite sure DS would be counting on his fingers to this day.

    I think this school might be workable if you 'afterschool' the places that are holding your son back so he can 'shoot ahead.' I don't think that there is a 'ready made' answer for this particular set of issues. Teach him to touch type as soon as he get near his 9th birthday. Try and keep his spirits up. I would be very explisit with him about his strengths and current challenges, and get him motivated to grow in those challenge areas.

    It is worth it to become an 'expert' at your son's particular challenges and at explaining them to folks - and set up a meeting with his teacher so that the teacher knows that this isn't just a run of the mill situation of 'not read to get inferences.' See if the teacher is willing to accept an alternative method to show that DS is actually getting those inferences.

    Working on strength-appropriate work will hopefully dissolve the perfectionism a bit. Bring the perfectionism to the teacher's attention and see what can be done to help your DS overcome his.

    Keep asking questions!
    Grinity


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    Great artical Grinity

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    Thank You!! I really appreciate your insight!! I would love to hear more about working on PS and WM. I do feel like he doesn't like school because he is "slow". Really at a loss for keeping his spirits up!! So glad I found this site...

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    Read through this thread
    http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....ing_with_kids_with_low_W.html#Post112284

    and run the search term
    Processing Speed
    or
    PS or PSI

    most kids here don't struggle with both, but some do.

    It's also possible that your son isn't struggling with both, but that his perfectionism is being reflected in the 'average' scores.

    Do these descriptions of WM and PS sound like his bottlenecks?
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_memory

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Intelligence_Scale_for_Children

    Maybe start by writing down a list of all the things that worry you about your son, and choosing a 'key' place to start, that if he made progress, lots of good things would happen...

    Perhaps being able to talk about inferences when he reads so he can get into a higher reading group? Or 'Mental Math' tricks so he isn't so pokey in Math?

    Has ADHD or ADD been suggested as a possible problem? Is he having http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_seizures? Is he slow at getting ready for school? Does he need paper systems to keep multistep task from overwhelming him?

    One way you can help right off is Flylady.net You'll be called on to keep the house extra-extra kid-friendly for a kid who doesn't 'self-organize' easily.

    Love and More Love,
    Grinity


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    Originally Posted by Jenniferok
    Really at a loss for keeping his spirits up!!
    Maybe this is the key place to start?

    If you both need some time to just 'de-stress' and enjoy life together - I recommend Special Time. It helps build your confidence that you REALLY know your child, and that you are 'there' for him.

    http://www.brightfutures.org/mentalhealth/pdf/families/ec/special_time.pdf

    http://www.handinhandparenting.org/news/17/64/How-Special-Time-Works-with-Teens


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    His problem with focus mainly (90%) comes from doing basic math problems verbally or written. He is a fast reader and always completes that stuff quickly. He can work for 12 hours straight on a Lego kit only stopping for restroom and food so I am inclined to think it is not ADD given he can focus if he wants. I wonder if all the drill of kumon numbed his brain to basic math? Trying to stay positive but hard when you feel his gifts aren't even being close to being used.

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    I'm not saying your child has ADHD, but just because someone can pay attention to an intrinsically rewarding task does not mean that they do not have ADHD. Most problems with attentional allocation show up on tasks that are not interesting. Interesting tasks capture attention. People with ADHD have difficulty with inhibition, with keeping their focus from shifting off uninteresting tasks onto ones that are more novel or intrinsically rewarding.

    Even if a child doesn't have attentional issues, it still uses cognitive resources to maintain focus on a boring task, and studying math facts is pretty boring by any standard. If the child has a problem with acquiring math facts, making the process more interesting may also make it easier and more successful.

    Sometimes working with manipulatives (such as different sizes of Legos), making the math facts into songs, games, or patterns, or incorporating them into intrinsically rewarding activities that require fluency with math facts to win (like card games such as 21, or computer games like Math Blaster, Timez Attack, or Multiflyer) can help increase fluency with math facts without the need to also overcome boredom and devote cognitive resources to sustaining attention.

    If the difficulty with retaining math facts persists in the face of practice that should be sufficient, evaluating for dyscalculia might be in order. Remember, though, that this is a rote memorization task, and mastering it may take longer than you are used to seeing it take your child to master conceptual tasks.


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    Thank you both for all the great ideas. I set up a meeting with the teacher on Wednesday and trying to figure out what "accommodation" to ask for.

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