Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional boo hoo hoo detention already....

DYS DS8 just got his first detention of the year which is way earlier than usual. Kids were teasing him at lunch saying he's in a dream world, one took his lunch box and was holding it away from him. When DS went to grab it back, he hit the kid in the head accidentally. The kid went to the aide and said DS hit him. DS got detention, end of story.

The other kids can communicate rings around him. He never vocalizes a denial or rebuttal that has any effectiveness, yet his age-mates talk a good talk. They continued to taunt him as he was waiting for the principal to pick him up from the playground. When the principal got there, DS was standing there with his fists balled at his side fuming (but NOT screaming or flailing) and the fact that his fists were balled at his side was evidence to them that he was aggressive!

The next day, DH had an hour long meeting with the principal who claims her hands are tied with the punishment because he struck another child. Fine. But the taunting, teasing, bullying kids get no consequences? That's sad. In fact getting off the bus the day after the incident, the kid who my son hit ran up to him saying "I heard you got in a lot of trouble" (sing-song-y taunting voice). My husband is calling the principal again today, because I don't think we should let this rest.

My kid is quirky, there is no doubt that he IS in his own dream world of robots, computers, and dragons, but he shouldn't have to endure teasing and lunchbox stealing. This is a public school for the gifted, where all kids have to have 130 IQ to be there. Like I said, DS is a DYS who has no problems academically, but he is also socially lacking because of his 2e-ness of autism spectrum. He does have an IEP and we are having our yearly meeting on Sept. 30th. I'm bringing along his outside psychologist for support. Can bullying prevention be in the IEP?????

I don't know why I'm writing this, except I need a little friendly support and maybe advice as to how to approach this. I had previously posted about our attempts to get DS accelerated by one year at this school and it was denied even with Davidson "backing" and I feel like this incident is just another nail in our coffin!

Kate

I am so sorry to hear this Kate. I am sure it is upsetting for all of you and for many reasons - especially the bullying. I am glad that the punishment was only detention. Many schools have a zero tolerance policy for physical incidents and suspend kids in these situations.

In my state there are a number of new regulations regarding bullying as well as helping kids on the AS. You should check your DOE or BOE to find out what Florida has on the books. Is your child on an IEP? If so, you should request a TEAM meeting to discuss this bullying, the potential need to update his IEP in the area of communication/social as well as the possibility that he needs an aide during unstructured times to protect him. You should also file an official complaint about what is happening in the lunch room. This could be important if it happens again.

Again, I am not sure if your child is on an IEP. If his AS disabilities are impeding his progress in non- academics (social, communication) he can still qualify for an IEP and receive services in areas of need. IEP's are not only academic.

In the meantime - I am sorry this poor guy got caught up in this situation. It seems that the other kids should be punished as well. AND I hope that the school has their eye on them.

Yes, he has an IEP and the meeting is scheduled already.

Thanks for the recommendation to make an official complaint! That is a perfect idea. I'm going to do that right now.

Kate

Hmm, I would think the "behavior" he was sent to the principal for is related to his disability: "socially lacking because of his 2e-ness of autism spectrum." Schools are required to determine if behavior is related to disability through a manifestation determination, when there is a potential "change of placement." This is usually the 10th day of suspension or a change to homebound or whatever for behavior. This process also requires them to determine if the IEP was appropriate.

But this really sounds like punishing him for a disability. That's a major no-no.

I think I'd pitch a fit at the IEP. You can write a parent statement of concern that has to be included.

I agree with bringing your psychologist but I think I'd try to find a sped advocate, too.

Good luck!! It's so frustrating!!

Thanks, I was wondering if bringing the sped advocate would be over-kill, but I'm going to do it. I had her number out to call her today.

Yes, it is related to his disability, but any kind of physical aggression doesn't matter. They are calling it aggression, so they can do what they want. And like you said, they can suspend him for 10 days (I call it the 10 day free pass) without having to justify it with the manifest determination hearing. After 10 suspension is when that all comes in to play.

Good!
I love the way you are after the school to do what's right. Perhaps this isn't a nail in the coffin, but a nail in the scaffold that will help the school see that a subject acceleration is needed.

With Bullying I would insist, both to the school and the child that he needs to me more than 10 feet away from these kids at all times.

The other thing I've seen work is to ask the teacher to suggest a 'transition' friend - a child bright enough to enjoy your child and socially skilled enough to get the other kids to stop teasing him. Plan some playdates with this potential friend. One would think that adults should be responsible for this sort of thing - but it often doesn't work. One would think that punishing the other kids would decrease this behavior - but often that doesn't work (for some kids - mine inclueded - even negative attention is a little bit reinforcing. What really works is a school culture where the majority of kids actively refuse to act as 'audience' for unkind behavior.

But wouldn't it be easier for the school to keep him away from these unkind kids if your son were with an older agegroup?

Just sayn'

Wink,
Grinity

Grinity, Yes, that was my first thought. Me to the principal, "If you had permitted acceleration, he wouldn't have the long recess he has now and wouldn't be enduring these little kids picking on him." But that was only in my head. It would be nice to somehow work into our meeting somehow though.

As for a buddy, there is one we have in mind for him. I've already talked to his mom, so I will follow up on that today also!

And I know consequences for the other kids are not my business or responsibility, but it still irks me. I didn't even think about negative attention making it worse.

See? I knew I'd get great suggestions here. I felt like I was floundering and everything was out of control. Now I feel like I can do something. Actually, multiple somethings!

thanks everyone!! Kate

Usual? As in, he's routinely getting detention? That has to change.

They need to write into the IEP how they will respond to problem behaviors in a way that keeps him in the classroom, minimizes disruption, and facilitates positive future interactions. Detention (which occurs long after the problem behavior) teaches an AS child nothing-- and will impede his progress toward his goals.

What social skills goals does your DS's IEP have in it?

Is there a behavior intervention plan? I know your DS isn't a kid who seeks violence, but he's getting cornered; however, a BIP would be one way to pin down how teachers are required to proactively prevent these situations, and then respond to them if they fail to prevent them. Read up and give it some thought.

This stuff is complicated-- I would absolutely have the advocate there. Can your outside psychologist help develop a detailed plan? I find that developing behavior interventions is the most finicky thing on my plate-- and having a professional behavior therapist as part of the team, in direct communication with teachers, is an efficient way for them to understand what plan will work and why, without my nagging them directly. (If they are good and well-intentioned teachers. If not, bigger problem.)


Right. The larger question is why the school is tolerating any kind of taunting of anybody, ever. Our public school has a program of pro-actively trying to develop tolerance among the children; we have asked them to talk explicitly with the 4th grade about DS's disability and ask the children for understanding and tolerance. This worked well for us in the past, though I know that as the kids get older and more conformist it may work less well.

Still, it has the side effect of making all the teachers more aware, and therefore more responsible. You need the teachers who have lunch duty (i.e. ALL the teachers in the school) to be watching for this kind of situation. And you should ask the principal to help you make this happen.

As for the gradeskip, I'm not sure what this incident implies. Our DS finds his 5th grade peers as accepting or even more accepting in some ways than his 4th grade peers, although there is a look-at-the-trained-monkey quality (look what the little kid can do) sometimes that alarms me hugely.

I think any talk of a gradeskip would have to include detailed consideration of the personalities of the kids in the class he'd be gradeskipping TO, whether they are typically a kind group or a mean group, and whether there are kids there who already like him or target him.

Are there peer-buddies you can cultivate for protection? Cub scout pack at the school? Band? Sometimes that sort of group participation buys a little acceptance. I felt that Destination Imagination helped my DS a bit that way, as did Cub Scouts.

Thinking of you,
DeeDee

Hi Kate:
I'm sorry you're dealing with all this. Sending you a virtual hug.

If you haven't already read The Unwritten Rules of Friendship, I would suggest that book highly as a resource. There are some very specific behaviors that your child may be doing unknowingly that can make them vulnerable to bullying. If you identify these behaviors, the authors have exercises you can do with your child.

DeeDee, We do have a BIP and detention is last on the list, but like I said they "justify" it by saying he "aggressively hit" this other kid. The BIP will be revised or discussed at the IEP meeting. I'm pretty sure we had to have a second meeting specifically for the BIP.

Lunch and recess are supervised by aides, not teachers. We have repeatedly requested that they attend meetings regarding our son, but they never have. We are told that they get instructions passed on to them through the ESE liason.

As for detention being "usual" for DS, he had 2 detentions in 1st grade in January, and 2 in 2nd grade in April. That's why I said "earlier than usual" because he typically doesn't have problems in school until the holidays or summer is looming or past.

I think they purposely jumped on detention this time so quickly, because they think it will be a deterrent (which as you and I know it is not for ASD kids.) I cannot seem to convince them otherwise. I agree that getting our autism behaviorist involved is going to be essential. The school says it is behavior and not disability-related.

And hernow: Thanks for the book recommendation. I have never bought it and now seems to be the time!

Again, thanks everyone for the advice and support. I appreciate it all so much, Kate

Hmm, the other kid took his lunchbox? That's aggravated robbery. The other kid is verbally taunting and constantly pursues? That's harassment. Your son has a school approved IEP due to being 2E? The school has been advised and done nothing?

Sounds actionable to me.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/educat...s-parents-self-defense-courts/50363256/1

There are a number of these now in court. One of the cases here in TX involved a boy who was PG and bullied.

IMHO the school's actions have disarmed your son psychologically as well as physically and now have created an open climate for him to be persecuted.

Yeah, it's an involved process. The part of a BIP that I think is routinely ignored but essential is the part that lays out what typically happens *before* the behavior, and what must be done to prevent the behavior. It's a legally binding document-- which means if it's written well it can help you get them to prevent unwanted behavior rather than acting on it after the fact.

Is anybody at school (special ed teacher?) taking data on interpersonal conflict and what the antecedents typically are? Data of this kind are terrific, if you can get them and if they were taken well: they reveal what's really going on and how to solve it in a way that anecdotes do not. (We have had to resort to our own behaviorist taking data, depending.)


You can certainly make your case that this isn't working. Find out from your advocate how to press the school to fix the bullying.


Yes, your experts are going to have to work on revising the school staff's understanding. I hope you can get them there.

Hang in there,
DeeDee

I don't know what to say, except that I understand and feel what you are going through.� My ds10 (now 5th) went through school bullying k�- 2nd.
He is also 2e-ish (asd &/or add traits) but not diagnosed, and these traits seem to be lessening since he started at a new school in 3rd grade.
But b/c of the three�years of bullying (& not only by the students), and lack of positive interaction experiences at school,�he has behavioral issues that he needs to work through.� And as he gains more & more�experience interacting with other kids and teachers�he is learning that everyone is not out to "get him."

I just don't know what to say about the fact that sooooo many schools think that they can do nothing about bullying. What is needed is an anti-bullying positive reinforcement culture (see below).
I know this sounds bad, but it seems that many of the schools are resistant to the changes required to help prevent bullying.

I feel this could be so, because the steps that are necessary to prevent bullying often goes against the cultures�of�the schools.
The principal would not only have to confront the kids who did the bullying and their parents, but also the�teachers, and the "status quo"

For instance, in your case, �the boys that took your sons lunchbox�do not appear to be experiencing� anything but encouragement to isolate your boy further.� In a positive reinforcement culture of anti-bullying these students would be experiencing negative teacher attention.��
What I mean by negative attention is the following scenario. Positive attention would be�given to your boy for example, the teacher could state to your boy,�

"You really showed restraint right now by�flenching your fists instead of more punching.� I know I would feel the same way if my lunchbox was stolen and when I tried to get it back I'm the one who�got in trouble.�I'm am�proud of you. �I know it takes a lot of strength�to do the right thing when others aren�t."�

This should be done so other students can observe this exchange.� This needs to be done carefully with support, especially in the beginning. He should not be alone at unstructured times, but the� bullies have not been directly punished by the teacher. The teacher has just given praise to the victim.� In general the adults also give praise to any students who did not join in.� Overtime this praise takes off.� The students begin to police themselves.� I'm trying to remember where this program is being�successfully implemented.� I heard about it on 20/20, Good Morning America, or Frontline.� It was�started by the father of a son who was bullied, and it has been transferred to other schools successfully. I have also read articles on this�technique of positive peer reinforcement being used where research is supporting its use.�Of course, there must be adult supervision during unstructured times.

I will try to find the program's details, and the articles I have read on this topic.
But a book that I do recommend is, "Perfect Targets: Asperger Syndrome and Bullying--Practical Solutions for Surviving the Social World",
by, Brenda Smith Myles, Ph.D., is an associate professor, University of Kansas. Brenda Myles is an internationally recognized authority on Asperger Syndrome and Autism

It is possible, though its appears to be a pipe dream for me, that parents of a district could from a group to work together and gather� the names of the successful anti-bullying programs, along with videos, guest speakers, and experts who have done research in this area.
These groups could attend� broad meetings and begin the long road of�anti-bullying advocacy.�� Though I am�passionate about this topic, I in the end just pulled my son out of his school.� His new school deals with some of these issues without even needing to be asked... for the most part.

If I go back to high school teaching I will be getting involved with this topic.� But this would be a topic for the other thread of, reaching your potential or on being self-fulfilled.

Some of the worst bullying I experienced was in college.

While it didn't happen to me, one of my pseudo friends (who I later found out was bipolar) had a roommate who he and one of my former roommates (who was a 4.0 student who won ethics awards) really abused.

They would cut the parts out of his books that he needed, empty out his shampoo bottles and fill it with crud, cut holes in his pants, etc. They really wanted to harass him to the point he dropped out. That was the goal of their college bullying, I think.

So, bullying doesn't stop in elementary and high school.

Thanks again everyone. Austin, I'm printing that article to take with me to our meeting.

Dee and barbarajean, The principal got DS a "job" in the media center for lunch and recess. So I feel like he will be safer from the bullying, but it does nothing to change the culture of the school's permissiveness of it. Thank you for the example of positive modeling. That is something we can use in our meeting. The way lunch and recess is right now is NOT working. We plan on continuing our advocacy for this during our IEP meeting.

Kate

I agree that children who take other kids' things should be punished, but when does "verbal taunting" become "bullying"? Are administrators going to enforce a rule that no one can ever say something unkind? To what extent do children have free speech rights in public schools that are effectively part of the government?

Good luck.

One thing to keep in mind is that if your son is on the spectrum is that he may not react to a lot of social cues and the other boys and girls may take that as weakness. Further, because he has less experience with emotions, he may not handle it was well when he finally does feel them. As an adult, others see you as being totally calm, but that's another story...

I know that when I am insulted, it usually takes me a day or two to realize it. LOL.

I moved around a lot and got some taunting when I first went to a new school. Sports are an acceptable way to be aggressive for kids and after a few aggressive minutes on the field focusing on particular people, people left me alone. Something to think about as well. This not an option for all kids, but is for some.

Another is to befriend the largest boy in the class. Either via your son or via playdates. Then build this circle the same way.

I don't have anything to add, as Grinity and DeeDee and everyone has comprehensively covered everything I might have said, but I just wanted to let you know that I totally understand where you're coming from! Including "earlier than usual", LOL!

DS9 hasn't (knock on wood) had any "bully slips" so far this year, but I'm sure we'll get some eventually. He is 2E with Asperger's and prone to just the sort of incident your DS just had. It sounds like your school just isn't handling it properly, and I'm sorry for that. Our school gives him the same "bully slip" or "pink slip" that any other kid would get, but at least the IEP protects him from suspension. They come up with creative ways to "punish" him for the infractions, along with counseling and social skills sessions and practice in understanding what it is that he did, but he can't be suspended for three pink slips like someone else would be. That was a good thing in first or second grade (second, I think) when he got six in one year! Last year I think it was only two. Progress.

I wish you the best of luck with this!

i think the book From Emotions to Advocacy is great for times like this. And also Rosalind Wiseman's bullying curriculum, Owning Up. Even if you can't convince the school to incorporate it, it might be worth reading yourself to give your son some tools to deal with it. There was a special about bullying on CBS last night. I am so sorry your son is in this situation.

Is your son a client of CARD? You can have them come to the school and train the aides and work with staff/teachers. What county are you in?

Deacongirl, We've used From Emotions to Advocacy for years; it's a great book. Thanks for recommending Owning Up, also.

Sweetie: Every IEP meeting the administration talks about CARD and how they are involved with them, but I do not hear details about their training. Thanks for the reminder.

Bostonian: One episode of verbal taunting is free speech for sure. But it has been going on since the beginning of the year and turned into a group event directed at my son. Whether it can be called bullying or not doesn't matter. I'm glad we found out about it when we did so that we could "give our son permission" to leave that group and find somewhere else to have lunch with. Yes, he is that socially blind that he didn't think to just get up and move to have lunch elsewhere like most kids would. Now that we are aware of it, we are teaching him to be more proactive.

Social skills are his most asynchronous behaviors and it is a continual work in progress. I appreciate everyone's advice and book recommendations. I am not expecting the school to solve my son's social skills woes.

Kate

Kate you should register your son with your regional CARD and get a CARD coordinator. Their funding has been cut to the bare bones but they are a big help.

My coordinator has had several parent workshops already this year. Not every topic applies to my son so I pick and choose which to go to. The parent workshops are nice ways to meet others and get support.

PM me with which county you are in and I will get you information on your CARD.

Also, if you have a coordinator, that would be the person working with your school so then you would know exactly what kind of training and networking they are doing with the CARD center or if the school is just blowing smoke. My coordinator will do "general autism spectrum" workshops to the entire staff of a school (including aides and lunchroom personnel) but she also does specific "Student A workshops" where she along with you would explain your specific child, strengths, challenges, and strategies. She could also do some sort of anti bullying workshops (probably with a slant towards students with disabilities being the target).

What is funny about this, is that my son IS the tallest boy in the class, in the entire 3rd grade. And the school has mentioned that. They called him a "baby huey" last year because he would unwittingly bump into kids. (This year that has not happened...he is finally realizing where the ends of his body are.)

But, we have elicited the support of a popular boy, so we will see how that works.

Well, as a practical matter, in criminal prosecutions, while you can initially charge both parties, you can only prosecute one party as a defendant and treat the other party as a victim. The school has elected to view your child's actions in the worst possible light and therefor treat your child as the defendant.

Personally, I think that is completely asinine! While "assault" is generally a greater crime than "theft", your child has a right to defend himself and his property. If in the course of recovering his property, he accidentally struck the thief, he should not be punished for it unless it was excesive force, which it doesn't appear to be.

Furthermore, both ADA (Americans with Disability Act) and IDEA (Individuals with Disabilities Education Act) provide extra protections for people with physicial and mental disabilities. Sometimes it may give the school administration pause if they know that you are aware of your son's rights. If I were you, I would send the school a written complaint regarding the incident in question. I would emphasize the thief's role as instigator and that your child's attempt to retrieve his property was a reasonable response, even if he accidentally struck the thief in the process. I would throw in ADA and IDEA, but point out that even without those considerations, the school erred in failing to address the instigator's behavior. I would conclude with the concern that the school is fostering a climate of discrimination and bullying as the "theft" culminated from previous incidents of bullying behavior.

Personally, I would not let the principal off the hook so easily. While she may be able to claim ignorance at the time of the incident and punishment, she is obligated to respond to a written complaint from you. If not, you go up the chain. This will help protect your son should another incident occur.

LOL!!

The building a better circle is a very long lasting approach!

Good luck!

In school, you generally have no right to defend yourself. If you defend yourself in a fight, you will be normally be given a punishment because you were fighting.

True, but this is changing.

If the school does not let you defend yourself, then they assume responsibility. This means they must defend you. This leaves the civil liability on them in a big way.

Sooner or later a case will pierce the official immunity many school officials hide behind and then they will be personally liable.

Personally if my child was being bullied (physically) and the school was doing nothing to protect my child than she has every right to defend herself.

My point was that the school will then punish your child with detention and/or suspension because of the fighting, so it's kind of a lose-lose situation.

I understand that, but I would push the issues and probably change schools if possible. If the school doesn't have the best interest of my child (their safety) in mind then I wouldn't want my child in that school. And regardless of the punishment I would tell my child she did the right thing (protected herself). Schools will claim they have 0% tolerance of bullying but in reality it's often not the case. I have family members and friends whose children are struggling with bullies and the schools have done little about it.

A few things to keep in mind when discussing schools and bullying:

Observing the legal obligation of confidentiality when working with students with a behavior disorder often looks exactly like, "Doing nothing" to other children and their parents. For example, modifying a behavior support plan or even having a behavior support plan is not something teachers are allowed to talk to other students or parents about.

I know that many of my students in inner-city, remote rural, and suburban schools have parents who tell them, "If somebody hits you, you hit them back!" But I cannot advocate that approach. For one thing, my experience tells me that the second hit is often done out of a blind rage. At this point, the students don't care that their return strike is out of proportion, that they are getting themselves in trouble, or that someone else might get hurt (like the teacher standing behind the student they push on the playground or trying to stand between the fighting students).

Secondly, Secret Service research finds that a high proportion of school shooters were bullied. In particular, students who struck back violently, stopped the bullying, and earned respect that way.

Which is not to say that most students in that situation do not grow up to lead healthy and productive lives. A good friend of mine who threw bullies down the stairs in middle school is a sweet guy who earned a decent officer's rank in the military, was voted Kiwanian of the Year at least once, and keeps enough firearms to arm a platoon and his attic, along with a bunch of books and maps.

Having studied the subject of bullying extensively, I believe in telling students to stand up for each other, teaching them social skills when needed, and trying to ensure that every student has an adult they trust at school.

And I live with the knowledge that no matter how good a teacher I am, somebody may shoot me anyway.

Point. Counterpoint.

One of the kids who bullied me in elementary school ended up performing a murder-suicide when he killed his parents and then killed himself. So, that wouldn't show up in the Secret Service statistics.

Now, that being said, bullying and fighting back have basically *nothing* to do with mass school shootings or murder-suicides.

The Secret Service disagreed with your conclusion.

Schools will claim they have 0% tolerance of bullying but in reality it's often not the case.

IME, Zero tolerance generally only focuses on physical aggression and seems to ignore the verbal taunting, which can actually be much more painful. I know my DS considers someone calling him a name a significantly worse "crime" than if they had hit him. Ironically, it is the "zero tolerance" policy that resulted in YOUR child getting in trouble because the verbal assault is ignored over the physical. A similar incident happened to my DS last year when a kid was relentlessly taunting him. After a while, DS pinned him (he was taking wrestling at the time) and HE got detention. I for one thought his response demonstrated a lot of control: he wanted the kid to stop, he had walked away, the kid followed him, so he took steps to defend himself without actually injuring the other child. But it was "physical aggression" and the detention form listed "attention seeking" as the reason. I was livid!

I hope the school does a better job of monitoring things for your child from now on!

RE the Secret Service study, I haven't read it, but it seems to me that it is similar to the argument that "many serial killers were adopted, therefore adoption leads to serial killing". The N for school shooters is really small. The overwhelming majority of students who fought back against bullies, did NOT become school shooters. And, there is likely another factor present in these kids that makes that kind of violence seem reasonable when it would not for most.

That said, I think fighting back should be a last resort. However, this requires a school that is willing and able to provide students with real alternatives for protecting themselves and preventing bullying.

Another valid way of interpreting the Secret Service data is that when schools repeatedly ignore bullying and fail to intervene appropriately, some children will, in desperation, take matters into their own hands, with some success. Some of them fight back, others learn to skip school or feign illness to escape the situation, others somaticize their stress and develop real physical distress (ulcers, headaches) which keep them out of school. Most children take away a lesson from repeated bullying: that they are on their own and the authority figures in their lives are either unwilling or unable to help them.

If the cycle of bullying recurs or escalates in higher grades and the school again repeatedly fails to take effective action, (which is likely if the school system as a whole does not actively discourage bullying, or if, as happens in some areas, the system actively, if sometimes unwittingly, encourages bullying) some children who feel trapped and helpless may escalate the intensity of their responses in an attempt to escape an intolerable situation, and, if these signs are again ignored, this may, in rare cases, particularly where the children are taking medications that increase aggression and decrease impulse control, lead to severe violence against the perpetrators of the bullying. Much more frequently, however, the violence seen in victims of bullying is directed against themselves. Children who have been bullied are at far greater risk for suicide and major depression than they are for violence directed against others.

Telling children that they cannot fight back even in a situation where they feel physically threatened only decreases their sense of empowerment and self-efficacy. But a child at school shouldn't ever have to respond in this way, because the supervising adults should deal with the bullying before it gets to the point where a child feels the need to resort to violence. If the adults at the school where the OP's child attends had been doing their jobs, this situation would not have arisen, and if it had somehow slipped past the radar, the response should not have been to validate the bully's behavior while punishing the victim.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to predict that some people who have responded violently to bullying in the past might respond violently to bullying in the future. A very few of these violent responses might be disproportionate. But the appropriate response to this information is not to blame the child who responds violently and admonish children to tolerate bullies, it is for the adults in the child's life to take steps to stop the bullying and show the child not only through words but through actions that there are effective and readily accessible civil alternatives to a violent response. Children at school don't have the freedom to leave to avoid bullies, so the adults who place them in this situation need to take responsibility for protecting them.

You can also provoke people into attacking you with words, not fight back, and then have them get suspended.

I did this once. Got a broken nose, though.

It's not the safest course of action, but it does work.

Note: My intent was not to get a broken nose or provoke a fight. There are just certain things you shouldn't say to certain people. I don't recommend that viewers try this at home.

Most of the kids who commit suicide or who plan to commit mass murder were bullied at school and elsewhere. They also had no adults to turn to or their parents were distant. They then let the resentment build up while they constructed revenge scenarios which they then acted out.

The verbal stuff precedes most violence. This is when it should be stopped.

As a kid who moved around a lot and who was a target the first few days in school, the physical stuff does happen - both the threat of violence and violence itself.

I've also watched kids in daycare settings and in birthday parties or other mass amusements and I see it occur regularly there. These take just a few seconds to occur and are often missed by adults and kids often ignore that it occurred.

Isolate each girl in a given class setting with a trusted adult and she will tell you who the bullies are. The boys will be too ashamed to admit it that they were bullied to most. And the bully will lie and tell you its someone else.

And size is no object. I've seen small boys taunt someone and then haul off and hit them - sometimes the biggest kids. And I've seen girls to this to both sexes. Sometimes its hard to see as it involves sharpened pencils or a hard pinch or rubbing the skin or pulling hair or shutting a door on someone.

When kids move into HS it gets much more violent. Many "jocks" will beat up the other kids. And the school will look the other way.

In my HS my football teammates would laugh about smashing the "geeks" into lockers. When I reminded them that these guys were my friends and that they should lay off it, they did. But the coach heard them too and said nothing.

Again, the popular girls will know who the bullies are. Just ask them to list who bullies whom and how.

In between striking back violently and tolerating bullying, there are a whole bunch of options.

Most bullying takes place where adults aren't around. I'll never forget the parent-teacher conference where the parent asked what we were going to do about the bullying. We hadn't heard about the bullying, so we called the kid in and asked where it was happening. "At the bus stop." As I recall, someone talked to the bus driver, but even the bus driver can only do so much before the bus arrives or after the bus leaves.

http://www.bullyingprevention.org/repository//Best%20Practices%20PDFs/olweus%20bullying%20circle.pdf

When I present "The Bullying Circle" to my classes, most students will admit to have playing at least three roles at some point in their lives. Some tell me, "I've been every person on this chart."

For a systemic approach, from a school's point of view, all the kids who aren't either the bully or the target are the key to stopping bullying. And this is why experts say kids should work on making a few good friends. It's certainly true that the new kids, the gifted kids, and the disabled kids are at a disadvantage here.

This is especially true in middle school and upper elementary where much of the bullying behaviors seem to be sorting out a pecking order, and people bully or support bullying as an attempt to fit in. And since the bullies are often the most popular kids in the class, it can take a teacher by surprise to find out who is doing the bullying.

I think of the time I found a Central American, Non-English Proficient student cowering in a corner of the girls room when the teacher's sink was broken, and a bilingual student talking to her. Turned out one of our soccer players, a good student, had passed her a threatening note. I was flabbergasted, but we talked to the soccer star, and the bullying stopped.

Most targets would not tell a teacher they were being bullied for anything. For that matter, there was a school shooting in 1997 where a couple dozen students knew it was going to happen beforehand, and nobody told an adult. This is why I say it's important to build that trust and keep those lines of communication open between kids and adults.

Wow, Beckee and Austin, your posts describe a level of bullying that I fortunately have not seen!

I have been lucky with my DS's that I have only observed real, ongoing bullying in one setting: a park district summer camp my boys were enrolled in last summer. Even after I discussed the situation with the leaders, nothing changed and the only person who ever got in trouble was my ds on the few occasions that he did lash out in retaliation. They claimed that they talked to the kids, but there were just too many kids for them to catch all the situations.
On the other hand, we moved the boys to a YMCA camp, and had zero problems with bullying. In my view, the Y just set better expectations about how people should treat each other. I think this really demonstrates the power the school or organization can in preventing these behaviors.

Thank you for the chart. I am including a little more text to go with it. VERY helpful. My gut tells me this truly is one way to reduce bullying in school. My daughter was a target for a few months in middle school; the bullying stopped completely when it was witnessed by two older students who took it upon themselves to "clarify" proper behavior for the bully. I copied this from the following website:

http://www.learningdisabilitiesinfo.com/bullied-children.html

"The chart, "The Bullying Circle", adapted from Dan Olweus' work, in Coloroso's chapter on bystanders, outlines a variety of types of bystanders. As Coloroso notes, there are no innocent bystanders. Those individuals who are neither the aggressive bully nor the target still enable the bullying through their silent or not so silent presence. The chart may be summarized as follows:

Bullies start the bullying.
Followers or "henchmen" take an active part but do not start the bullying.
Supporters, or passive bullies, support the bullying, though they do not take an active part.
Passive supporters, or possible bullies, like or are amused by the bullying but do not display open support.
Disengaged onlookers watch what happens and don't take a stand.
Possible defenders dislike the bullying and think they ought to help out, but don't do it, perhaps paralyzed by the fear of becoming the next target.
Defenders of the target dislike the bullying and try to help the target.
��Coloroso, 2003: pp.64�66

Parents and teachers of children with Asperger's (or any bullied child) should sit down together and try to identify which children in the classroom or neighborhood take the roles of possible defenders and defenders. Parents should enlist the teachers' help in showing active support to these children for courageous and compassionate behavior. Teachers should then take these children aside as a group and let them know that their proactive behavior and empathy has been recognized, and that the teachers and parents would like to enlist their help in protecting certain children from bullying. Giving the defenders and possible defenders attention strengthens their position, gives them direct access to each other, and lets them know that the adults will support them if they ask for help in defending a targeted child.