Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional boo hoo hoo detention already....

DYS DS8 just got his first detention of the year which is way earlier than usual. Kids were teasing him at lunch saying he's in a dream world, one took his lunch box and was holding it away from him. When DS went to grab it back, he hit the kid in the head accidentally. The kid went to the aide and said DS hit him. DS got detention, end of story.

The other kids can communicate rings around him. He never vocalizes a denial or rebuttal that has any effectiveness, yet his age-mates talk a good talk. They continued to taunt him as he was waiting for the principal to pick him up from the playground. When the principal got there, DS was standing there with his fists balled at his side fuming (but NOT screaming or flailing) and the fact that his fists were balled at his side was evidence to them that he was aggressive!

The next day, DH had an hour long meeting with the principal who claims her hands are tied with the punishment because he struck another child. Fine. But the taunting, teasing, bullying kids get no consequences? That's sad. In fact getting off the bus the day after the incident, the kid who my son hit ran up to him saying "I heard you got in a lot of trouble" (sing-song-y taunting voice). My husband is calling the principal again today, because I don't think we should let this rest.

My kid is quirky, there is no doubt that he IS in his own dream world of robots, computers, and dragons, but he shouldn't have to endure teasing and lunchbox stealing. This is a public school for the gifted, where all kids have to have 130 IQ to be there. Like I said, DS is a DYS who has no problems academically, but he is also socially lacking because of his 2e-ness of autism spectrum. He does have an IEP and we are having our yearly meeting on Sept. 30th. I'm bringing along his outside psychologist for support. Can bullying prevention be in the IEP?????

I don't know why I'm writing this, except I need a little friendly support and maybe advice as to how to approach this. I had previously posted about our attempts to get DS accelerated by one year at this school and it was denied even with Davidson "backing" and I feel like this incident is just another nail in our coffin!

Kate

I am so sorry to hear this Kate. I am sure it is upsetting for all of you and for many reasons - especially the bullying. I am glad that the punishment was only detention. Many schools have a zero tolerance policy for physical incidents and suspend kids in these situations.

In my state there are a number of new regulations regarding bullying as well as helping kids on the AS. You should check your DOE or BOE to find out what Florida has on the books. Is your child on an IEP? If so, you should request a TEAM meeting to discuss this bullying, the potential need to update his IEP in the area of communication/social as well as the possibility that he needs an aide during unstructured times to protect him. You should also file an official complaint about what is happening in the lunch room. This could be important if it happens again.

Again, I am not sure if your child is on an IEP. If his AS disabilities are impeding his progress in non- academics (social, communication) he can still qualify for an IEP and receive services in areas of need. IEP's are not only academic.

In the meantime - I am sorry this poor guy got caught up in this situation. It seems that the other kids should be punished as well. AND I hope that the school has their eye on them.

Yes, he has an IEP and the meeting is scheduled already.

Thanks for the recommendation to make an official complaint! That is a perfect idea. I'm going to do that right now.

Kate

Hmm, I would think the "behavior" he was sent to the principal for is related to his disability: "socially lacking because of his 2e-ness of autism spectrum." Schools are required to determine if behavior is related to disability through a manifestation determination, when there is a potential "change of placement." This is usually the 10th day of suspension or a change to homebound or whatever for behavior. This process also requires them to determine if the IEP was appropriate.

But this really sounds like punishing him for a disability. That's a major no-no.

I think I'd pitch a fit at the IEP. You can write a parent statement of concern that has to be included.

I agree with bringing your psychologist but I think I'd try to find a sped advocate, too.

Good luck!! It's so frustrating!!

Thanks, I was wondering if bringing the sped advocate would be over-kill, but I'm going to do it. I had her number out to call her today.

Yes, it is related to his disability, but any kind of physical aggression doesn't matter. They are calling it aggression, so they can do what they want. And like you said, they can suspend him for 10 days (I call it the 10 day free pass) without having to justify it with the manifest determination hearing. After 10 suspension is when that all comes in to play.

Good!
I love the way you are after the school to do what's right. Perhaps this isn't a nail in the coffin, but a nail in the scaffold that will help the school see that a subject acceleration is needed.

With Bullying I would insist, both to the school and the child that he needs to me more than 10 feet away from these kids at all times.

The other thing I've seen work is to ask the teacher to suggest a 'transition' friend - a child bright enough to enjoy your child and socially skilled enough to get the other kids to stop teasing him. Plan some playdates with this potential friend. One would think that adults should be responsible for this sort of thing - but it often doesn't work. One would think that punishing the other kids would decrease this behavior - but often that doesn't work (for some kids - mine inclueded - even negative attention is a little bit reinforcing. What really works is a school culture where the majority of kids actively refuse to act as 'audience' for unkind behavior.

But wouldn't it be easier for the school to keep him away from these unkind kids if your son were with an older agegroup?

Just sayn'

Wink,
Grinity

Grinity, Yes, that was my first thought. Me to the principal, "If you had permitted acceleration, he wouldn't have the long recess he has now and wouldn't be enduring these little kids picking on him." But that was only in my head. It would be nice to somehow work into our meeting somehow though.

As for a buddy, there is one we have in mind for him. I've already talked to his mom, so I will follow up on that today also!

And I know consequences for the other kids are not my business or responsibility, but it still irks me. I didn't even think about negative attention making it worse.

See? I knew I'd get great suggestions here. I felt like I was floundering and everything was out of control. Now I feel like I can do something. Actually, multiple somethings!

thanks everyone!! Kate

Usual? As in, he's routinely getting detention? That has to change.

They need to write into the IEP how they will respond to problem behaviors in a way that keeps him in the classroom, minimizes disruption, and facilitates positive future interactions. Detention (which occurs long after the problem behavior) teaches an AS child nothing-- and will impede his progress toward his goals.

What social skills goals does your DS's IEP have in it?

Is there a behavior intervention plan? I know your DS isn't a kid who seeks violence, but he's getting cornered; however, a BIP would be one way to pin down how teachers are required to proactively prevent these situations, and then respond to them if they fail to prevent them. Read up and give it some thought.

This stuff is complicated-- I would absolutely have the advocate there. Can your outside psychologist help develop a detailed plan? I find that developing behavior interventions is the most finicky thing on my plate-- and having a professional behavior therapist as part of the team, in direct communication with teachers, is an efficient way for them to understand what plan will work and why, without my nagging them directly. (If they are good and well-intentioned teachers. If not, bigger problem.)


Right. The larger question is why the school is tolerating any kind of taunting of anybody, ever. Our public school has a program of pro-actively trying to develop tolerance among the children; we have asked them to talk explicitly with the 4th grade about DS's disability and ask the children for understanding and tolerance. This worked well for us in the past, though I know that as the kids get older and more conformist it may work less well.

Still, it has the side effect of making all the teachers more aware, and therefore more responsible. You need the teachers who have lunch duty (i.e. ALL the teachers in the school) to be watching for this kind of situation. And you should ask the principal to help you make this happen.

As for the gradeskip, I'm not sure what this incident implies. Our DS finds his 5th grade peers as accepting or even more accepting in some ways than his 4th grade peers, although there is a look-at-the-trained-monkey quality (look what the little kid can do) sometimes that alarms me hugely.

I think any talk of a gradeskip would have to include detailed consideration of the personalities of the kids in the class he'd be gradeskipping TO, whether they are typically a kind group or a mean group, and whether there are kids there who already like him or target him.

Are there peer-buddies you can cultivate for protection? Cub scout pack at the school? Band? Sometimes that sort of group participation buys a little acceptance. I felt that Destination Imagination helped my DS a bit that way, as did Cub Scouts.

Thinking of you,
DeeDee

Hi Kate:
I'm sorry you're dealing with all this. Sending you a virtual hug.

If you haven't already read The Unwritten Rules of Friendship, I would suggest that book highly as a resource. There are some very specific behaviors that your child may be doing unknowingly that can make them vulnerable to bullying. If you identify these behaviors, the authors have exercises you can do with your child.

DeeDee, We do have a BIP and detention is last on the list, but like I said they "justify" it by saying he "aggressively hit" this other kid. The BIP will be revised or discussed at the IEP meeting. I'm pretty sure we had to have a second meeting specifically for the BIP.

Lunch and recess are supervised by aides, not teachers. We have repeatedly requested that they attend meetings regarding our son, but they never have. We are told that they get instructions passed on to them through the ESE liason.

As for detention being "usual" for DS, he had 2 detentions in 1st grade in January, and 2 in 2nd grade in April. That's why I said "earlier than usual" because he typically doesn't have problems in school until the holidays or summer is looming or past.

I think they purposely jumped on detention this time so quickly, because they think it will be a deterrent (which as you and I know it is not for ASD kids.) I cannot seem to convince them otherwise. I agree that getting our autism behaviorist involved is going to be essential. The school says it is behavior and not disability-related.

And hernow: Thanks for the book recommendation. I have never bought it and now seems to be the time!

Again, thanks everyone for the advice and support. I appreciate it all so much, Kate