Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion De-lurking and ideas for quick & easy assessments?

Hi ya'll, I've been lurking on and off for a while, as I come from a family chock full of 2E and gifted people, which has really skewed my idea of what most children are doing at any particular age. I wanted to be a little more on top of things with my son than my parents were with my brother and me. Hope I can pull up a chair and stay a while.

Quick background: My DS5.5 is (probably) MG, if that, nothing at the DYS level. He's definitely a quirky and bright little boy who thrived in a primary Montessori program and has been in K for 3.5 weeks now. We went with a parochial school that was known for academics and relatively small class sizes and said they frequently dealt with kids who were advanced.

DS really likes his school and classmates so far, and I went in with a wait-and-see attitude about academics. However, he's come home upset a few times because he really wants to learn more multiplication and doesn't want to do any more counting. I checked with his teacher and she mentioned that they do math as a class, so there's not much opportunity for differentiation (Saxon). She did say that they usually get to single-digit addition by the end of the year, which doesn't bode well. While she seems very enthusiastic, math discussions have centered around "yes, all children are at different levels, but our curriculum as it stands works for everyone."

What set off warning bells in my head was when he said that he likes this school better because he doesn't have to think and he still gets sparkly stars on his work.

So it looks like I'll be doing some advocating a little sooner than I thought, possibly for subject acceleration in math, definitely for anything that will make him think and put forth a little effort. I'd like to concentrate on math for now, as he's pretty self-directed with reading and not nearly as ahead. While he just started with Magic Treehouse books at home (and he takes quite a while to get through one), some of the reading instruction is new to him (work with setting, characters, plot, etc.) even though small reading groups are using phonics readers.

We haven't done any formal testing yet, since there hasn't been a need, but I can see that we may need to look into that. I do have a meeting set up with the principal next week to discuss some options. In addition to some work from last year I'll bring in, it may be useful to have some outside, objective assessment to show. I've looked into the DORA and DOMA tests, but are there any other online ones that may be valuable?

I'll stop rambling now...

IMHO, a just-started-kindergartner who's reading Magic Treehouse (even slowly and laboriously) and doing multiplication is likely not just MG.

Just saying.

Supporting evidence:

http://ceep.crc.uiuc.edu/poptopics/k-entry.html

http://www.saratogausd.org/index.ph...p-ease-kids-transition-into-kindergarten

One idea is to use Saxon Math's own placement test with your child and share the results:

Go to -
http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/HA/correlations/pdf/p/primaryplacement.pdf

http://saxonhomeschool.hmhco.com/HA/correlations/pdf/s/SHS_PLT_middlegrades.pdf


A more subtle way to do this is to give the tests and figure out which placement you think would be best. Then create your own handmade work sheet that involves a lot of problems at the level you child is at. Perhaps make the writing larger if your child's eyesight is 'age appropriate.'

Let your child fill out your parallel worksheet. Don't mention that you've been on Saxon's website or even seen their tests. This avoids the appearance that you have been prepping specifically for this test. It's natural to the school when they see a child with advanced abilities to jump to the conclusion that you've been chaining the child to the bedpost and social services need to be called. I wonder if it's projection?

Another possible idea is to figure out what your child doesn't know, and ask the school to have a teacher sit down with the child and show them how to do it, so that they get the experience of seeing how fast and easily he learns.

I love aculady's links and yes, they match my experience. Our school had a list of 50 words on the report card such as 'next to' 'underneath' that a child was supposed to learn by June after Kindy. My son knew them all at the first try. I had no idea mine was 'more than usual gifted-program gifted' until testing in 2nd grade, and he didn't multiply or recognize a single word (besides 'exit' and 'quit' - Remember CD rom games?) It is harder to tell in 2E families.

One caution I would share is to watch 'how' a child is doing Math and Division. My son was very hesitant about rote memorization of Math Facts. So he could handle Math conceptually pretty much by age 5, probably up to pre-Algebra, but it was all by 'counting on fingers' method. This was quite slow, and he was quite unwilling when we started to insist that he try other ways.

I even taught him 'the forgiving method' of Division in an attempt to get him to practice this Multiplication facts - which did help, but then he had to go back years later and learn regular methods for Division. He had tricked the placement tests because placement tests only have a few items of each type, and he saved time on the test questions that could be quickly solved by logic.

I don't really know what the answer, but just wanted to report our experience. Lots and lots of elementary Math is about memorization, not abstract thought, which plays to the weakness of an ADD/PG kid. If I were running a school, I would teach Math and Memorization in 2 separate subjects, because they are both important. Of course I would teach reading/writing/spelling/grammar independently as well. They are all important, but I hate the idea of holding kids back to their lowest skill.

But if your son is already fluent in Math Facts, or you can make them fun and learn them in the check out line, you'll save a lot of confusion, yes?

Smiles,
Grinity

Thanks, aculady and AlexsMom, I have seen skill lists like that before, but well, I tend to take them with a grain of salt. After all, "isn't that the bare minimum and won't most kids be way beyond that?" are the thoughts that run through my head.

I mentioned upthread that my view of what the typical child knows and when is somewhat skewed. It might be more skewed than I thought. He's very age-appropriate emotionally and socially and has never been one to "show off" unless he's very comfortable with the person and situation, so it's possible that I may be in denial I go back and forth between thinking he's just bright and thinking "uh, maybe there is something there." After seeing what the rest of the kids in his K class are doing, I'm learning towards the latter.

Possible - I would guess, since you are here and human - that it's likely!
A good tester can help you with this and it's a wonderful thing. An even better tester can negotiate directly with the school and help you find a good fit. Most testers will just make knee-jerk statements like 'well you have to send him to a gifted school' or 'well you had better be prepared to homeschool.' sigh. But it still helps to get your yardstick 'standardized' - a lot.

Maybe ask the school which of the local folks they think are particularly good at helping parents understand the results of all that testing. It would be nice if you could just ask directly - which testers will you believe and do what they say?

sigh again,
Grinity

Aside: Lately I've been watching junk TV 'Millionare Matchmaker' and wishing the Patty was yelling at school districts and advocating for gradeskips instead of fixing up folks. It's like I can watch the regular show and my imaginary show at the same time.

((shrugs and more shrugs))
Grinity

I recommend ( if you have the means) a secondary "school" like Kumon. They base on ability not grade. You go 2x a week and he has packets to do home daily

Rather than beginning supplemenation at home, I'd first work on what you can get changed at school. Sorry to disagree, Cawdor ; I am just not sure that it is going to fix the issue to have him learn more rote skills outside of school and then go to school and stagnate.

I'd start with requesting whatever assessments the school itself has done or asking what, if any, assessments they will be doing this year. I'd also want to know if they stop once the child meets the requirement. For instance, counting to 100 is something children are supposed to do by the end of K here. I recall at least one of my dd's report cards listing the # she was able to count to as "100" every quarter from the first one on. Once you hit 100, that was it, they didn't test any further. Reading assessments are done that way at times as well. Once the kid is testing at grade level, they don't bother to see how far above grade level s/he is.

Do you know what the GT program at your school consists of as well and when it starts? It's good to know what you're advocating for. If they don't have anything that will meet his needs within grade level, like others have suggested, subject acceleration is sometimes a wonderful option as are grade skips.