Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Trying to sort it all out with my 2.5 yo

Hi, this is my first post here, so please be gentle with me. Forgive me if this topic has been covered. I have a DD6 who is in a Regional Gifted Center here in Chicago Public schools. She is very smart and was the classic early talker, was reading before we realized it, etc. Long story short, I didn't really understand she was gifted until she was almost through preschool...in fact there were things about her that made me wonder if she could be somewhere on the autism spectrum. I feel bad now about being so far off the mark.

Her brother, DS2 has just gone through an evaluation with EI here in Illinois. I don't have the write up yet, but the therapists want to put him in speech, physical, and occupational therapy because of our concerns about his speech. He pretty much doesn't put two words together (has a decent vocab), some echolalia, extremely emotional with severe tantrums, sometimes all day long (probably because he can't communicate), and very rigid in play routines.

HOWEVER...I waited so long to get him evaluated because of the things he CAN do. Since well before his 2nd birthday he has been obsessed with first, numbers, then shapes, colors, and letters and has been able to correctly identify many of them for a long time now. He can count well into his 30's, backwards and forwards, and can identify numbers at least 1-20, maybe more, out of sequence. Can identify upper and lower case letters as well as say the sound they make. Can write most upper case letters (completely self taught) and some lower case and tell you what he just wrote. Can draw many simple shapes (including a happy face with eyes, nose, mouth and ears) and correctly identify. He can start with any letter in the alphabet and go forwards and backwards sequentially. I have a hard time doing the alphabet backwards.

Anyway, I don't know what to make of this. I mean, he won't even ask for a cup of milk...just barks out milk at me and stares at me blankly when I try to model the correct way to ask for things. No pronouns, few verbs, few adjectives aside from colors.

Will someone please help me make sense of this? I am completely unprepared for this kind of situation. Is this some sort of obsession with symbols that just happens to make it seem like he's really bright yet language delayed? I'm ok with that, I get that having a gifted kid is not the slam dunk people think it is (DD can be an existential, argumentative Drama Queen PITA, haha). But am I wrong to be confused by this seemingly wildly conflicting set of skills my dear sweet little man has? I just look at him and want to help him unlock language so I can get to know him a little better instead of having to draw letters and shapes for him for hours and hours and be subject to tantrums if I stop or even slow down.

Help.

My son was diagnosed with autism at age 2.5. By the time he was 7 he was identified as profoundly gifted as well. But having the early dx and starting early speech, OT, and especially ABA helped him become communicative. My son knew numbers including zero and negatives so I didnt understand how he could be autistic, too. Just like your son, he knew colors (weird ones like maroon and magenta) but I couldnt get him to say "red." Lots of therapy helped him speak and communicate instead of scream and grunt so that now he is thriving!

The therapy wont hurt and you will be so happy to hear him talk! I used to dream about my son talking to me when he was minimally verbal, and now he is a complete chatterbox!

Kate

For a while, I thought our son had something called, "Auditory Processing Disorder". (He has had auditory sensitivity; though now very much diminished; and seemed not to listen.)

Check into it to see if any of the symptoms "ring a bell". It could be the source of his tantrums.

DS8 didn't talk for conversation purposes until after he was 2, but he was reading by then, and he knew all the numbers anybody could ever want as well (he loved Who Wants to be a Millionaire and knew all the $ amounts, knew when something was money or just decimals, fractions and all that). We knew from 1 to 1 1/2 that he was very gifted, but it wasn't until he was 6 that he was diagnosed with Asperger's. We had suspicions from 4ish, but resisted it.

He did some of what I guess is echolalia, at least he would repeat things back to you, whole sentences usually (really interesting because he could repeat a sentence back without the words that he wasn't allowed to use). He had a ferocious temper, and would bang his head on things (floor, couch, walls) when things weren't going his way -- he still has a temper, but he's learning to handle it in more positive ways. Back then, it was easy to see that it was just because of the things he wanted to do but was not physically capable of doing yet, now it's frustration over being misunderstood by the other kids.

So basically, you're close to where we were six years ago! I would not hesitate to say your DS is gifted, and therefore frustrated, and it wouldn't surprise me if there was some degree of Asperger's as well. Or some of those other things. You're in the right place, here!

Don't be surprised if he gets interested in license plates -- they are numbers at a handy height for a 2.5 year old.

Oh wow you guys, thanks so much for your responses! I already feel better!

Kate, autism is not off the table with us, but he is a cuddly sweet boy when he is not tantrum-ing (and he's getting his way)...with eye contact, and pointing. I keep saying no, no he doesn't fit and then I start thinking...maybe. The therapists were clearly not going to make a call on any causes (they'd be crazy to on a preliminary evaluation). One did say that she was "happy to see him so affectionate." I assumed she was hinting that maybe autism wasn't a huge concern? Forgive me for not knowing the finer points of the disorder.

Ametrine, yes I think APD could be a possibility. His sister and I both have issues with this as well. I was trying to get his attention in the gym daycare the other day and he was staring fixedly over my shoulder at two women having a conversation...like they were shouting and that was all he could hear. I'll be sure to bring this up in therapy. Thanks.

Cricket3, road signs, haha, we are obsessed with octagons right now. They are kind of hard to draw (for me). Thanks for sharing your story. It helps so much!

Nautigal, DS's echolalia sounds like your son's...entire songs, everything an electronic game says, everything his talking stuffed dog says, entire TV shows. In sequence. I hear it from his crib and recognize the cadence and some of the sounds and words, but if I was hearing it for the first time, it would just sound like babble...since I've heard the toys and shows, I know he's repeating huge chunks back. LMAO on the license plates, I think the only reason he's not obsessing over those is that he's extremely brand conscious and is busy narrating what kind of car it is as we walk thru the parking lot. He likes to classify them by letters, my honda is H-car, a mercedes is Y car, etc.

I hadn't thought he was possibly an Asperger's guy, mainly because of the speech delay, but I'll keep it in mind going forward as well.

Again, thanks so much for the replies, it really means a lot!

Regards, Q

Like others have said it's certainly possible to have a 2E child, one that might have some delays/learn disability but is also gifted. Others have already addressed that well so I won't touch on this further.

However, I'm curious about your DD6, why did you think she might have autism initially? Are you certain she does not have Aspergers now? Like your son she could be 2E (and since you're seeing this in your son I thought it was important to ask), so it might at least be worth looking into. Feel free to ignore this if she isn't showing any symptoms but since you mentioned that I felt it was worth discussing.

Cricket3-stop sign cookies is killing me, your DS sounds hilarious.

Newmom21C-since she was my first kid, I had no frame of reference except in comparison to her peers. She just seemed different, and I think because it is in the news so much, autism was the first thing I thought of. She never played with toys the way they were "meant" to be played with, often stood off to the side or didn't want to be part of the group activities at parties, playgroups, etc. The lining up of things was insane...we'd have entire armies of plastic animals and figurines lined up in queues all over the house. We'd wait and sneak behind her back and change the order of two of them, or turn one the opposite way, and she'd see it immediately and rush over to put it back the way she had it. Just...strange. When she tested into the gifted center I spent a lot of time reading and ran across the concept of overexcitabilities which really seemed to explain her better than AS. I certainly would not rule out the possibility of some neurological difference beyond her giftedness, but nothing I can put my finger on.

After reading your post I went back and read over the signs/symptoms of AS...mostly not her, except I will say that I perceive a lack of empathy at times, perhaps because I struggled with that as a child as well. We work really hard on that!

Perhaps there are even shades of Asperger's? You could certainly armchair diagnose several folks on either side of our family with both giftedness (at least 3 of 4 grandparents) and suspicion of Aspergers, most notably my father and her cousin on my husband's side.

I had to grin when I read that!

Our son went through that lining up phase. His thing was letters. Three sets of those foam kind. He would line them up in order, but they absolutely had to be touching. I used to push two letters away from each other in the line when he was out of the room. Of course, he would see it and push them together again! LoL

Prior to that alphabet obsession, he had a toy with the colors of the rainbow as the background to pictures. The toy had nothing to do with rainbows, yet one day I found them lined up in the correct order of colors. That one happened when he was two. I remember taking a picture of it, I was so surprised.

There's a touch of Aspie tendencies in my family; but no diagnoses. So far, the doctors haven't felt DS has it, but because he is often crying through appointments, it's difficult to catch him being himself!

Well, it's certain a spectrum and if she were to be on it, it sounds like she'd be at the very high-functioning end. Although nothing you said (except the lack of empathy) could truly be explained by Aspergers and not giftedness. I'm certainly no expert and would never dream to Dx your DD over the internet but I figured it was worth mention in case an issue showed up later on.

Have you looked at a list specifically about aspergers and girls? Try googling sue larkey, she has a ten point list. I am on posting on my phone at 3 am so cant post a link easily.

The quote that amertrine made above is exactly my DD too. And she was a head banger as a toddler. She has great empathy but has trouble reading cues unless they are very overt so may not demonstrate her concern until someone else is crying - at which point she often bursts into tears. Her tone of voice is often inappropriate, she goes straight to snapping rudely at us, or makes sounds like she's laughing when she is crying and then asks why we didnt help her get her sister off her...We are waiting for an assessment in sept. I am sure she has ADHD I am not sure whether there is also some asd going on. She definitely has some traits but maybe not enough for a diagnosis.