Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Large discrepancy in WISC IV scores

Greetings all
Given that many here have a great deal of experience of "making sense" of IQ scores, I am interested in thoughts on the following.
My daughter E. was 6.0 years at testing which happened at the end of May. She was in a part-time language immersion kindergarden program at the local public school after 2 yrs. in a montessori program, and will move to 1st grade in the same program in the fall. E was psycho-assessed as she was vehemently opposing going to school, but the teacher said she was happy at school. We were also aware that her writing was poor, she doesn't draw or color (but can operate a computer joystick) and had had gross motor issues that have improved greatly over the last 6th months with a lot of gymnastics, swimming, skating etc. She is physically small for her age.

We need to work out how to improve school for her, given that acceleration is not an option. We thought that E was bright, but were surprised that the scores are so high. It looks like she has good cause to be frustrated with the pace of school, and the amount of coloring that she has to do. The question is though - should I be concerned that her Processing Speed is relatively low? Is there more than boredom at play here? She is very young - is it likely writing etc. just a maturational issue (I realise that WISC IQ scores are age-normed.) These are the reported scores:
Verbal 144 99.8
Perceptual 144 99.8
Working Memory 114 82
Processing Speed 91 27
FSIQ = 135 99%
GAI = 156 99.9th

Her basic reading skills (WIAT-III) are at the 95th percentile, with the strongest performance in early reading skills (96th) and the poorest in sight word knowledge (87th). (She doesn't like to read aloud though. She loves to be read to though and will read silently if we read.) Her Beery-VMI was at the 50th percentile.
Does anyone have any ideas/insight into where I should go next in trying to help the child/school fit? I am hoping to find some parents who are a few years down this path and share the wisdom of hindsight...

Thanks for reading through this over-long e-mail.
Best wishes
Nadro

Welcome Nadro,
Is homeschooling an option?

Parital homeschooling?

Why isn't a gradeskip an option?

What other schools are availible?

Is 'just letting her be miserable at school' and making the rest of her life great an option?

I call what your daughter has a 'spiky' profile - Her GAI, which represents her 'intellectual level' is almost as high as the tests can measure, much much higher than 'gifted' while her supporting skills: PSI and WM are 'about average' - they aren't giving her the kind of support that would show most school folks that 'here is a child who needs and individualized educational plan.'

There may be a learning disability or ADHD type problem in play as well. This might take a long time to figure out.

If you are located inside the US, I would download an application to the Young Scholar's Program and start filling it out.

Please keep posting, more details and more of what you've tried so far. and what you do for stress management (yours and hers) and support.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks for your thoughts Grinity! Appreciated more than you would guess.

We have been partially homeschooling this year in practice as school was a half-day program. We are keen to keep her in the French Immersion program as we think that learning a second language is useful and will open doors for her later (and gives her something to learn). I can't provide language instruction myself. She is also very social and enjoys recess etc. If it wasn't for recess and French, I would probably homeschool her and be done with it. As it is, we take days off school sometimes and go and do things like wander around the natural history museum.
This year we have done a lot of things at home before school e.g. I read aloud and we end up having long conversations about what we read. She is interested in metaphors at the moment. We have been reading Harry Potter, which provokes discussions (initiated by her) about whether evil is relative or absolute, what dementors represent and where the first one came from, whether transfiguration of an object into another changes its nature etc. etc. Swiss Family Robinson provokes interruptions with suggestions of how they could set up pulleys etc. to build the tree house (and then the book describes exactly what she suggest and she is thrilled.) All of this comes from her, and is fine as long as I have been allowed to drink my morning coffee first.
I also used the mornings to schedule gymnastics, art, go skating and swimming etc. She propagated seeds, kept a weather diary, learned to play the recorder, worked on printing and she likes doing math 2nd+ grade workbooks. Partial homeschooling worked out fine this year, and (as far as I was concerned) being bored at school for a couple of hours a day didn't seem like the end of the world. Next year is a full day program, and being miserable most of the day everyday does seem like a problem... She will lose her place unless she is there full-time though...

Our school board absolutely opposes grade-skips. E. can go in a 1/2 grade split next year, but that is the only modification they will entertain. (We don't know what the teacher will be like as she is a substitute teacher.) The school won't identify her as gifted, despite this report. There is a congregated program (enrichment not acceleration) in the board, but it doesn't start until grade 4 so there is no such thing as gifted students until then. I am beating my head against a brick wall with the school until grade 3 when they will identify her, but still not modify for her - it is so frustrating. I want to have a constructive relationship with them but it is hard to have constructive suggestions when I am out of ideas... Hence my posting....

The psychologist and I don't think she has attention problems. She does seem to have some sort of motor problem, but I am not sure if it is lack of maturation (of her motor skills?) or an LD. I am not sure whether time will improve PSI and WM, or whether I should be doing something about it. I feel really overwhelmed... Maybe I just need to be talked off of the mountain, and back onto the mole-hill :-)

Thanks for 'listening'. If anyone recognises the description of her "spikyness" (love that description) I would appreciate any pointers.
Best wishes
Nadro

P.S. We are US citizens, but are currently living in Canada. I don't think that E. would meet the criteria for the Young Scholar's Program in terms of attainment anyway.

A portfolio including video of her discussing some of the topics above or some like them would very likely go a long way toward DYS admissions. Just saying...

Plenty of homeschoolers learn foreign languages online or through "after-schooling" programs. If you want her to learn French, there are numerous resources available that wouldn't require you to be her primary instructor, and in Canada, there are likely to be neighbors or friends readily available who would be willing to speak French with her for a few hours a week. After school and weekends playing at the park could easily stand in for recess. If you did a little legwork to get the contact information for the children she liked the best from her current class, she could probably even continue playing with some of the same children.

I don't know what the homeschooling environment is like where you are, but where I live, the problem for most homeschoolers is not having too few social opportunities, but too many. Most homeschooling groups are mixed-age environments, so it is often easier for gifted children to find a range of peers who can each meet some of their social needs.

If French and recess are all that is standing in the way of homeschooling, I think that you can find easier and better ways to give her those experiences than having her sit in an admittedly inappropriate classroom day in and day out for years.


Edit: Homeschooling gave us the flexibility to get my son, who also has motor issues and a "spiky profile", among other things, appropriate occupational and physical therapy. We could schedule him for appointments every day of the week, knowing that he wasn't missing anything at school, because school was scheduled around therapy, not the other way around. It also ensured that he would have a learning environment that accommodated his disabilities without having to constantly balance his needs against the needs of 25 other children. I really doubt that he would have been able to make the gains that he has if we had had to work around a standard school schedule and if he had had to learn in a regular grade-level classroom environment.

Hi Aculady
Thank you for response. I have genuinely thought about homeschooling next year, and went as far as looking for resources, exploring the law etc. There is a provision in Provincial law for partial homeschooling which, for a while, I thought might work. I will mull it over again and discuss it with my hubby. This has to be a whole-family commitment....

Multi-age groups are a definite advantage of homeschooling. I liked Montessori partly for that reason. Surprisingly, there doesn't seem to be much for home-schoolers in our area although with the population density, there must be some groups around but they aren't very visible. The gym club and art school E. attends both used to have sessions for home-schoolers but stopped it as there wasn't enough kids. Not impossible, and it probably is the best (or at least the happiest) for E. The other benefit is that I could adapt what we do so that it was optimal for her. For example, she learned cursive at Montessori and that seems to be less problematic for her, but her public school insists that she prints until 3rd grade and then re-learns cursive.

[It sounds terrible, but on a very personal level I sort of don't want this to be the solution. I am much happier at work, and that break does make me a better mother than when I am home all day and trying to work at night. E. is incredibly intense to parent - the level is pretty close to constantly running a seminar group for not quite up to scratch 1st yr. university students, but less predictable in direction. In comparison, a day at work is a breeze. Does this make me worst mother of the week? I truly admire those who do home-school successfully as you do. I'll go and soul search.]

If it isn't too much trouble, please can you tell me a bit about what the OT has done with your son? Doing lots of sports and physical activity with E. has helped her gross motor development noticeably. I wonder if OT could help E. with her writing more than I am doing, and whether they have ideas to help her speed up her work.
Best wishes
Nadro

It does not make you the worst mother of the week. It makes you an honest mother. And lady, I am with you 110%!! I love the idea of homeschooling, but I know it would damage my relationship with DD8.5. When it comes to any kind of work (from writing emails to studying to math) we butt heads on a grand level. She pushes my buttons, I nag. We are both uber-perfectionists, but I am much, MUCH worse than she is. It would not be fair to either of us. Although I work full-time, I actually am home quite a bit due to shift work. I love hanging out with her and playing, but I also need that time at work away from the demands of two children who tug at my brain cells continuously. Sadly, a 24-hr shift of poking sharp objects into neonates is often a walk in the park compared to a day with my two kidlets. (Now who is the bad mommy for saying THAT out loud, LOL!)

I agree with Aculady - those discussions are not normal for her age group, even for 'regular gifted' kids.
Unfortunately, the current guidelines states that you have to be residing in the US, so you are off the hook for now.

Wink,
Grinity

An OT might use a program such as 'Handwriting without Tears' - or OT was great with helping DS14 with his gross motor (he wouldn't play sports at first, so the OT was very helpful) but dismissed my concerned about his pencil grip, etc. Other OTs would be much more helpful.

You have to shop around.

Now let's talk about this misconception you may have that to be a 'good' mother or an 'non-terrible mother' you must be willing to give up everything for your child's needs.

Your daughter is a member of your family. Yes, she is a vulnerable member and her needs may count ahead of other people's needs for a while, but she isn't the most important member of the family, or the only family member with needs.

Work provides cash, security, independence, and appreciation - children might or might not provide appreciation spontaneously, but it too thin for many people to rely on!

You have to find a solution that balances the needs of all the people in the family in a workable way. Pretending that you can give everything isn't going to make it so. I know a lot of very active, PIA kids with similar IQ scores to yours who have made it work with a public school system. But it takes some luck, and some time, and it doesn't always work. Keep looking for the homeschool network, it's probably out there. Look for private school (with French as a Primary language?) that might give financial aid. Get your psychologist to talk to the school board about why skipping is a nescessity in this particular instance. Consider partial day homeschooling.

It sounds to me like you are on the right track with the soul searching. No easy answers, sadly, but at least you know what you are dealing with - a very very unusually gifted girl who needs academic accomidation just as much as a child with special educational needs from the learning difficulty end of the graph.

Love and More Love,
Grinity