Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments STARTING MY SON (2.9 YRS.) IN DAYCARE

My DD was 2 and talking her head off, nearly toilet trained and she was in a room with largely non verbal toddlers. I asked if she could go into the next room. I thought she would say no as the next room was mainly 4 and 5 year olds. (They didn't happen to have many three year olds). To my surprise, they readily agreed.
Problem!
From being pretty reliable with using the toilet, she kept having accidents. It was just really bad timing as she was consolidating her skills in this area and needed to be offered the toilet, taken to the toilet etc. In the older room, the children go to the toilet in pairs and are expected to be more independant.
So I felt a bit silly but i asked if she could go back down for a few weeks while she got confidence and independance with toileting, which she did, and then she went back up. She has just turned three and is the youngest in the room and she plays with 4 and 5 year olds. Our next problem is that next year some will go to school and she will not, and then the following year she STILL won't go, even though she is one of the most advanced in literacy and numeracy already. But so far, so good.

For the OP, having had a few childcare years under my belt now, I would not raise it now. I would start him and see how he goes. It totally depends on who is in the peer group, which you don't know and can't know yet. If he fits better into the next group they will move him up. If there is not a vacancy, they will wait till there is. No drama. Try it and see.

Hi there,

Mr W ( 3y5m) put us in much the same dilemma.

We made three major changes in his daycare/schools. We notice that when he is bored and underserved, he regresses.

The last major change was from Montessori with a mixed age group where he was in the lower middle of the age range to a highly structured private school where he is now in with kids who are 4 and 5.

The change in his behavior has been very positive. He now acts like his mental age again. He is calmer and much more focused. We did have a few potty issues during the transition, too.

The key dilemma is what we do from here on. He is way ahead of his classmates intellectually - reading, doing math, speaking in full, complete sentences with full narration of his day, etc. He is a little man. But, there are a lot of gaps - which this structured program is filling in. He also needs to learn to connect with the older kids. He is happier with them because "they talk to me."

The school says he can start K at this fall if things continue to go well. But they do not offer anything after K. We'd have to move him again. We've identified several schools both public and private in our area which we will approach this fall.

Mr W sells himself. We do not go in an talk about what we want. We let the schools tell us what they do then ask questions about curriculum and placement. We then bring Mr W in and let him be himself. Then we talk about our experiences with him in relation to their curriculum and policies.

I think it was Grinity who said take things a few weeks at a time and make adjustments as needed.

Our final fallback is to home school him with the help of private tutors with the option of putting him back into school.

Here is my experience: I tried to put my very verbal 20 mo child into a daycare that grouped kids by age. He was peeved! He considered the other kids babies and balked everyday. The staff was frankly not responsive to his needs and considered him too much work.
So, I wound up putting him into a home based daycare with a range of ages so, 6 mos-5yo kids and that worked beautifully for my child.
Every child is different, and depending on the daycare's style you may find he does just fine, or there may be issues. I guess I'd try it and see...

WOW, guys! Thanks for al the replies! First, though, I should clarify a few things. 1. My son doesn't get a whole lot of opportunity to interact with kids who are old than he, with the exception of a Kindermusik class once a week. He's a year and a hlf younger then the next youngest kid, and still fits in beautifully, often leading the group in the actvities. 2. He has 3 same-age friends that we play with once a week or so, and unless they're playing a 'real game' or doing something that has a point, he doesn't bother with them, just does his own thing. When they play something that interests him, he's all in. 3. We went to the daycare for a short orientation session a couple of nights ago and accidentally went into the 3.5-5 year-old room and he loved it. A little girl came over to him to show him the books and started to read him a story. The other little boy that was there was tlaking to him and asking questions and while DS was a little shy, he didn't want to leave. Then we discovered we were in the wrong room. The toddler room (ages 2-3.5) is smaller, has very few 'interesting' toys and has a lot of wooden puzzles, the kind my son played with a year or more ago. There was one child there when we got there and there was NO interaction between the 2. After about 10 mins., DS asked to go home.

I just don't wanna ruin the daycare experience for him by sticking him somewhere with no stimulation, but I also don't wanna go in there requesting things that may be deemed "unreasonable". My plan was to give it until the end of August and see how it goes, but now I'm not so sure. We have another, longer orientation session on Monday and I'd like to have an idea of what I need/want before I go. Is this the start of what it's gonna be like from now on, I wonder??

hmmm. I could have written this post- this is what happened with my LO too- he was in a room that was developmenatlly inappropriate for where he was cognitively, socially, motorically. Nick was upset that there were only board books, easy puzzles, no kids who could carry a conversation in the toddler room. The daycare staff didn't have him long enough to figure out he was gifted and that was the source of his angst. I pulled him out after a week.
They never offered to move him up into the preschooler room even when I described his skills which were more on par with the older kids. A bad fit all the way around.

sigh. it can be a dilemma- but perhaps they would let him be in the older kids' room, or maybe there is a place with a more open plan for the kids of different ages/skills to mix more??

hugs.

BTDT. We moved Mr W for this reason.

Come at it from an angle. Ask about what each class does, then let them talk. Then ask how they decide when to move kids up. Then mention that DS does what the older class does and really seemed to like that room. Then come right out and say you'd like to have him start in there as he is intellectually their peers.

The thing to keep in mind is if they are not sensitive to his needs now and can not see that he is advanced, then he will only be ignored for sure in the toddler class.

Hi,

At 2.9 it's worth asking if the older class/room might be an option. If not I think a twos area sounds questionable, soley because I've never personally seen one that would work for my own DS.

Have you considered family type daycare (usually one woman and 4 or 5 kids of various ages), babysitting, part time nanny? Best found via friends or local mother's group, ask local elementary schools what teachers are home raising kids, etc.

For daycare/preschool visits, ask when the optimal time is to visit and then come an hour before that and say oops we seem to be here early. For example many providers prefer you not come at drop off time because it's a busy time for them, but it's also when you get to see how they handle a busy time, whether the kids seem miserable on separation, and how long that lasts for them.

Things to look for:

Are you mobbed. If you are the center attraction for very long, that means the environment is understimulating.

Is there aimless milling. Are there are kids wandering aimlessly or just sitting and staring for more than a very few minutes.

Is the teacher warm.

Does the teacher know personal details about the kids and use them in conversation, toy choice, etc. "Caden how was your weekend, did your grandma come over?". "Are you going to play with the cars first today or the dinosaurs?"

Does the teacher rely on rules without good explanation at a good level for the child. Is it, "Don't do that.
Or, "Don't do that or you will get a red warning", or "No hitting, hitting hurts". Is what the teacher does going to work for your DS.

What is the ratio of the caregiver's positive comments to negative. Is it "Oh Anna what wonderful sharing", "Anna I like how you look right at me when you talk to me", "Anna please use an indoor voice". Or is it only the last one.

These things are nearly all teacher related. The rest of it hardly matters to most kids of this age, if they like the teacher and the teacher is nice to them then it will be an okay experience even if the other kids are boring or don't share.

That begets the idea that ratio is really important at this age. If the quality is dependent more on the teacher than anything else then the fewer 2 year olds the better. If one follows that thought to it's natural conclusion it's that zero other 2 year olds are the optimal situation. Which is the conclusion I've come to viewing several daycares and thinking that finding another a not-too-busy mom or babysitter might be a better option.

We ended up just getting regular babysitting and juggling until my DS turned 3 and was eligible for the classes (3 and up) that are more fun and stimulating.

The disclaimer: I saw several very happy 2 year olds in daycares I visited. The personality type that liked it seemed to be intelligent but easy going. Someone who likes to be in a crowd or likes social stimulation, doesn't mind pleasing authority, and who attaches pretty easily. That all did just not happen to describe my DS.

Polly

We checked out a daycare today. My son is 19 months and not very verbal, but obviously advanced. We watched him for 2 hours in the 18 - 24 month room. He didn't play with anyone (and he does play with older kids), he only gave the toys a cursory look at best and he seemed confuzzled when they ended art time because he wanted to keep going.

When they went outside, he was clearly more interested in the sewer access holes in the ground than in their lackluster outdoor area.

I had a big issue with how everything was rigidly scheduled. Home daycares seem more fluid than that. Not much of a chance to eat a lot of your snack, for instance.

@Polly - great post, it is very clarifying!

We had mild to moderate boredom issues with dd in preschool.

At age 'almost 3' she was in a classroom she could not stand, I could not figure out why but after a couple weeks I finally asked to have her moved. The other option was a 3/4 class, with mostly 3's. This was so much better for her. At the time I rationalized it was better because she had been able to exercise some power over the situation (?)
Much later in the year, I think the boredom struck again, she was often 'sick to her stomach' or made similar stalling excuses/complaints to keep from going in. Finally when she just declared it was too boring and 'all they do is play', I thought I'd better investigate further. I knew already she was a smart one, but after discussing with the director what to do, and getting some testing done I was able to get her shoe-horned into K when she was 4.5, and we are still on that track, considering first grade at 5.5 in the public school.

We are lucky the classrooms at the preschool were mixed-age, and the school is pretty great in general, or I am sure it would have been much more problematic.

Well, I guess I'm not the only one who is or has been in the situation, which is nice. We went for the orientation session yesterday and it went pretty well. DS didn't play much with the other kids, but did lots of drawing, which showed the 'teacher' that he knows his numbers, letters and can write all the numbers. She was shocked! She thought he had made a '4' by accident until she asked him. Soooooo.....we didn't say anything else and I dropped him off there this morning. Things went really well and I'll get the full scoop on it when I get home tonight, but I think I'm gonna wait it out and see what happens. It has become apparent to at least one of the 'teachers' that he's pretty bright, so I'll see how the next month or so goes. Maybe in a couple of weeks, I might feel out the older classroom and see if there's space available there and see what the reaction is. I'm hoping he'll be fully toilet trained by then, which would eliminate that excuse for not letting him move up. Thanks so much for all the advice. I really appreciate it!