Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments Math Word problems

To me, one of the criteria for a gifted child should be the true ability to solve 'real world' math word problems. These provide a test to show logically thinking, math knowledge, as well as knowledge of the environment related to the problem, etc.

If you visit the following link, there are useful 'real life' problems suitable for testing a gifted child's ability.

www.mathwords.weebly.com

Harold (Hal) Schneider

hals99@sbcglobal.net

I clicked so you [fellow Davidsoner] don't have to :-) Here's a quote from the page:


[Unashamedly sticking my neck out]

No. If a child can understand English, and understands mathematics, s/he does not need to learn 55 rules or think mechanically about translating words into operations in order to solve "word problems". If your child has trouble with word problems, take it as a sign that there is something fundamental s/he's not understanding, and tackle that - don't teach rules.

The question is why has word problems been a major problem for many decades (ask any student to get an opinion like 'I HATE THEM !' This includes many good students in English as well as good math students.

It is easy to make generalities to 'tackle the fundamentals' without definition of what 'fundamentals' are... nor any indication of how to do it ! I believe that this attitude is one of the reasons for the persistent problem that truly exists !

Experience with my students proves mine approach works !

After viewing the sample pages for the pushed product, I came away with a low opinion of it as well. I also (without meaning more offense than is unfortunately unavoidable from the statement) wouldn't trust my children's word-problem teaching to someone who garbles English so badly.

It sounds good to me, but I never was very good at math.
It includes the free shipping by e-mail, that's good.
But at 80 pages at $7.95., if it was $8 it would be $0.99 cents a minute
But the decimals are throwing me off with that .95, I wish they would round off.
LoL

I certainly do not mind criticism ! But, I was hoping to start a rational conversation of the technical issue of why math word problems (MWP) are indeed a long standing problem.

First, do any readers disagree that MWP are a problem ?

Second, do any readers have specific reasons (based upon actual experience) for this situation ?

Third, rational criticism should involve counter technical arguments to my proposed solution.

I guess that's not to be.

I think perhaps you are approaching the wrong audience. My very mathy kid who also reads far above grade level, does not struggle with math word problems. His only problems come when the wording of the question is vague or the expected answer is unclear, as is often the case in his mediocre, multiple-choice math tests at school.

Example- recent word problem from his book (dates modified because I do not remember the specifics).

John went to the park 7 days ago. If today is Sunday, June 12th, what day did John go to the park?
a) Sunday June 19th
b) Monday June 6th
c) Wednesday, June 1st
d) Saturday June 11th

Um... well the choice of Sunday, June 5th wasn't available. So we were left to figure that 7 days ago must have been inclusive of the current day, meaning that Monday, June 6th was the only possible answer.

hals99,

I took a look at your book and at your questions below. I have a few comments.

1) MWP are a problem for the majority of students, regardless of their mathematical ability because they usually do not actually read the whole problem. They skim it looking for the numbers and then the question at the end and then try to "figure it out" based on that info.
2) Why do they do this? many different reasons, often because the idea is that "this is math, not reading, so I shouldn't have to read to answer math questions". Also, a number of word problems in school math books are random and not linked to what the students are actually involved in with their life. Even if the authors write it with hopes that students will find it interesting, purely because it is written in a math book they will not be interested in it. (This is true for most subjects, not just math problems)
3) Another issue that needs to be addressed is that when word problems are first introduced, it is often the teacher who cements it in the students' minds that word problems are hard and difficult to do. This view is then reinforced by the students' experience when they try to do some on their own.
4) Being good at math and/or good at English does not mean that a child can then read a mathematical or scientific problem and understand what is being asked. Math and science based word problems are usually written by math and science people, and is not written the same way we use language in everyday speech or in any other aspect of our lives. If we really want students to be good at solving word problems, we first need to teach them to be able to read scientifically written articles.
5) While I use word fractions all the time to help my students understand word problems, the problem with using them is that fractions in and of themselves often makes students shut down faster than word problems! Also, if we again look at what most teachers will accept for work on word problems, the problem is usually assigned within a certain topic and the teacher wants the students to use that particular new skill to solve the problem, not simply apply word fractions to them all. In fact, I know many teachers who would mark problems wrong if they did not use the new skill to solve them. They consider it cheating to use dimensional analysis. (Yes, this is from first hand experience as both a student and a teacher.)
6) And finally, many times teacher mistakenly believe that they do not have to teach students how to actually solve word problems, but assume that if they understand the new skill being taught that they should be able to read a word problem and know the steps needed to solve them. It is similar to the situation that often occurs with graphing - the science department assumes that the math department has taught the skills and they shouldn't have to, while the math department only teaches the skills of graphing mathematical functions and usually not graphing data for analysis.

In reference to your particular book, I think that many people would find it overwhelming to see that many rules needed to solve word problems. It looks like a good reference for teachers who need to help students understand dimensional analysis. However, it still doesn't get the student to actually know how to solve the word problem using a particular skill that the problems were designed as an application of.

Harold,

Kids do not like rules. That's why many Math books have instruction book for the teacher (separate edition to include rules). My DD won't read them.

Most gifted students will cruise through problem solving Math questions (without bothering the parents and sometimes we are amazed that they can do questions that we were quite sure above their capability including long and complex questions). There are many word problems today than years ago. So far, my favorite has been Math for gifted kids by flashcards and primary grade challenge Math by Edward Zaccaro. If my DD wants more, I'll probably try yours as well.

But keep writing and publishing Math word problems. The more choices, the better for us. (I would not have posted the way you did though). :-)

Harold,

I think that you are onto something, but offered a wrong solution.

As other posters noted, people do not like rules, especially so many of them. For gifted ones, it is the last thing we want to do to make them robots.

In my opinion, the problem lies in reading comprehension. Reading math and science literature is different from reading novels. There is a level of details often skipped by a faster reader, which leads to missing information, and repeated reading, and slow down the process of problem solving. So if you can devise a way of training in "precise reading", it will be better appreciated.