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Age of Empires, hunh? I'll have to check that out ...

I like Civilizations better than Age of Empires, but AoE is okay. I like that there's building and diplomacy involved in Civ, not just battling. (AoE has some building, but it's definitely harder to play AoE without engaging in some warring.) You can win Civ by scoring more points, building the first spacecraft, or through the United Nations, among other methods. No war required. Civ has no magic, but I don't think AoE does either, does it?

BTW, in Civ, the "violence" is totally bloodless--like Risk or Stratego's boardgame variety of violence, where game pieces just disappear from play when "killed." I think that's pretty much how it is in AoE, too, but I haven't played it in a long while, so my memory could be faulty.

Civ has a good bit of history in it, too, including a fairly comprehensive and accurate "Civilopedia" where you can look up info about the wonders of the world and other such facts. Not that I would count it as school time if my DS played it, but at least it's something vaguely educational...

No typing words, though there a lot of reading involved. No spelling required either.

My son doesn't like Age of Empires as much as Empire Earth. It is similar but has more ages. It doesn't just have the medieval age and he says it goes from cavemen to futuristic robots.

I am at work now but when I get home I will post a link to a discussion that I once read about WOW.
Age of Empires and Civilizations are played by DS, althought the latter one as a board game.
I generally try very hard for my kids to play games others than computer, I feel that thay learn muh better, healthier interactions with others by staying away from it. They are exposed to the computerized life so much, I beg them to go outside and play with "real" friends or animals (namely our dog :-)or read.
I do feel very strong about computer games, as you can well see. I blame them for increased isolation among todays youth and even adults.

I think we have to agree to disagree on this one, Ania.

Many people blame computers in general for isolation, yet here we are, on this useful forum, connecting with people in a way that is positive and helpful to us, and would be very nearly impossible without computers. It is what you make of it.

Computers are a tool. Computer games are no more isolating than a deck of cards for a solitare game or TV or a basketball hoop for shooting solo baskets. Heck, when I was a kid, I read books and played Barbies alone in my room for days in a row sometimes without a friend in sight. How is that worse than imagining a world online? Not everyone needs or wants lots of social interaction. There's nothing wrong with being alone if you're happy that way.

In Mia's case, she even sits with her DS, so it is a family game. How is that isolating?

Of course you are welcome to keep your children away from computer games completely if you choose. I certainly limit the time my kids spend on the computer or in front of the TV and encourage my kids to play with friends, as does every other parent here that I've heard discuss the matter. But I do not accept that computer games are inherently evil or are inherently ruining society. I believe they are what you make of them.

You are welcome to your opinion, of course, but I feel like you're trying to persuade Mia, Cym and I that we're wrong. I know that for my part, I've read the studies and the discussions. Frankly, I'm not persuaded that moderate use is harmful. I don't think I'm likely to be.

<shrug>

But what if the game is played family style? We have two laptops (and no desktop) at our house, and typically if B was playing WOW, one parent was also playing with him -- interacting, answering questions, helping with strategy, etc.

It's not that I don't see value in other games; of course board games and playing outside and dogs, etc., are valuable in their own right. But I think it's hard to say, "This one game is to the detriment of children," especially if your own ds is playing similar computer games.

I wonder, have you ever seen World of Warcraft played, or is your viewpoint based on the crazy husband and articles you've read? I think it's pretty hard to judge something like this without actually having *seen* it, kwim?

No matter how many links to discussions you've seen in the past -- you may want to consider that this is just as valid a discussion, just from a different viewpoint; and this discussion is peopled with some highly intelligent, involved parents, many of whom see a benefit to playing these games. I'm sure I could find a board out there that says that *this* board is nuts, that GT programs are a waste of resources that could go to children who aren't up to "standards", and that we should let our kids be kids. Since we're posting on this board, I think most of us would disagree with that line of thought; we see benefit in moving our kids along.

Likewise, there are benefits to playing video games, especially on the computer. In this day and age, computer literacy is crucial. Plus, World of Warcraft is complex; it has its own economic system, its own social system, its own rules and social structure. People actually *study* WOW's economic system. And these systems mimic those of the real world. Not only that, but the kid has fun, learns about math and typing and -- yes -- about limits and time management.

As a gamer himself and an EGer at least (never formally tested, but it's painfully obvious), dh has been following this conversation with interest; he makes the point that many parents treat video games like they treat TV. He says (and I agree) that video games, especially online games, should be treated just like going outside -- we need to know what you're doing, who you'll be with, how long you'll be doing it, and when you'll be done. And we as parents can regulate these things -- and we do. It's not like ds was in a dark, windowless room, playing video games until 6am with no interaction. We were there, knew what he was doing, and were monitoring it the whole time.

I feel very strongly that computer games can be beneficial when played in moderation, not to mention that they're great escapism. :-)

And remember, this discussion started with me saying we've banned WOW for now! But it won't be permanent, and I honestly do see benefit to playing this sort of game.

Good points had by all.

Different strokes for different folks.


I

^^^ agree :-)
I will defer from posting the above mentioned link.

And on that note, thanks for the game suggestions! DS7 LOVES Age of the Empires.

Agreed to disagree.

But the child's handwriting is still atrocious.