Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment MAP test scores for my twins

I have questions about my kid's scores individually and concerns about siblings/parenting in general. The kids are just finishing 4th grade

First DD10. I only have her Spring MAPs but I remember that she has improved in both areas. Reading was 224, 93 percentile. Math was 235, 96 percentile. She is a 4.0 student but studies very methodically and works hard. I'm thinking of an online Duke Word Roots/reading/writing course for enrichment for her this summer. She was tested for GATE 2 years ago but did not get in - she scored 88% on whatever test they gave her. Her teacher this year is encouraging us to have her tested again. She loves reading the Lemony Snickets series.

DS10 - in GATE and we have applied for a program which will place him with 5th & 6th graders in the fall but is supposed to accelerate students in each subject as needed. Should hear soon if he gets accepted. Here are his MAPS;
Reading Math
Fall 224 Fall 238
Winter 231 Winter 246
Spring 233 Spring 247

He really loves math and I know the 247 is somewhere in the 99th percentile but I don't know how to figure out where it falls. I'm worried about the plateaus in both subjects. He says he isn't learning anything new. He's registered for EPGY over summer in accelerated 5th-6th grade math. Anyone with experience with EPGY? We may apply for DA in the future - I don't know if he'll qualify but he wants to go all out. He will take the EXPLORE in Oct. WISC IV is 136 in Dec, highest subscore was matrix reasoning - 19.

Now the parenting part. They have been kept together since K at our request. My struggle is being supportive of each of them but they are very competitive and constantly compare daily work, test scores, etc. They both do sports and used to do the same sports but we have separated them in that area. My daughter often feels inferior because in school she usually scores just under her brother but she is a bright, beautiful girl who is a 5-time state gymnastics champion!

Anyone with similar issues with siblings? I want them EACH to feel joyful at their accomplishments!

Mine are two years apart so there is some of this but it sounds much more intense since yours are the same age. If separating the sports has toned down some of the competition in that area, maybe separating their school programs will have a similar effect. You could also point out that since it wouldn't be appropriate to compare so much with other students, they should extend the same courtesy to their sibling.

I have a twin brother and my mother always bemoaned the fact that we were competitive with each other (as all of us siblings were), but it was fun for us in some ways, motivating for us in other ways, but mostly just a non-issue in our minds. And the competition was just about life in general, not primarily academic.

My brother and I were completely different students, though. Come college, we found out that it was likely my brother had some sort of LD. At that point in life he tested as quite bright but not gifted. I had tested as a kid as gifted. I always sailed through school with virtually no effort. My brother, on the other hand, didn't work very hard either but got much more average grades. My parents, in an attempt to encourage my brother, would praise him a lot for the good grades he did get, and I remember just an occasion or two where they rewarded him when he improved significantly on a bad grade. Because I was consistently doing well, however, come report card time I always got a "good job!" but that was it. I'm sure they were trying to minimize the differences between us, and it wasn't really a big deal to me, but I always thought that it wasn't fair that he was rewarded when I wasn't. I guess they were emphasizing effort but I saw it as rewarding him for getting still-lower grades than me.

Also, I always wanted to skip a grade because I was ready for it academically and all my friends were older than me, but it was never an option for us because I had a twin for whom a skip was not appropriate. I think my parents made the right decision here, because it would have been quite awkward to go through school having to explain things. But, I did get to take higher-level classes. It wasn't enough, and I would have appreciated other opportunities, but it was what it was.

I think some things that helped were that we never were in the same class, except for 6th grade band. We didn't have our lockers near each other. We participated in different sports and activities. Our parents never really mentioned our testing scores (although I found out as an adult that my dad had taken my 4th grade ITBS scores to show to people at work when I got 12+ GEs on all the sections but one). And, I think, school wasn't as intense and competitive in general as it is now, so we didn't take it as life-or-death as people tend to do now. We did have some of the same friends, but we mostly ran in our own social circles.

So, anyway, this might not be helpful at all to you, but I thought I'd share our experience. HTH! It's great that you're considering all the elements, so you're on the right track!

Thanks, guys! Inky, I like your emphasis on being curteous to one another - they say things to each other that they would NEVER say to classmates. I'll remind them of that.

mnmom - your child/grown up perspective was exactly what I needed to read. So cute that your dad took your ITBS scores to work to show off - you gotta love a proud papa!

M&Ms Mom,
Ha! I just noticed your screen name. My twin and I are M&Ms, too!

Hee Hee mnmom23! I have a Matt and a Meg and when they were itty bitty, people would ask if they were identical and I'd say, "No, they're M & M's, one is plain and one has peaNUTS", which would either make them laugh or tell me to clean up my language

Was your son's WISC done at school or privately? Was your DD WISC at the same time? In a situation where there MAP scores are so very close, and one is in GATE and the other not, I would definitely want a professional educational assessment done privately. Girls can be great camouflagers of their talent.

I know it's reassuring to observe your DD's work habits and assume that she is well placed and working at capacity, but I think, in this situation, that maybe she is working hard because she has good work ethic, rather than because she needs to. She may be behaving this way in part to please and reassure you. That isn't beyond most girls and a few boys.

You may be in for a big surprise, and if not, then it's easier to allow their paths to diverge once you have some numbers and some guidance.

I've never used EPGY Math, but have heard many people praise it. Is your son registered for EPGY through the school, or could you sign DD up as well, if she were interested (or with some encouragement?) I do think that the word course is a good idea, but perhaps let both do both? Expensive I know, but...

I would inquire what kind of testing is needed for the local GATE program, and if individual scores can be accepted, and if the district has noticed any local testers who are particularly good at communicating with parents.

Is your Daughter signed up for Explore in Oct as well. I would encourage both to do it, especially if that provides more data for the school to look at her twice.

I have to wonder if, with a little hothousing, DD could bridge those few MAP points, or blow out the Explore. Have you tried this yet?

The main thing to keep in mind is that DD has a tremendous asset in having her brother around - she may whine about feeling inferior, but she is getting a great lesson in 'trying harder.' In the long run, character traits like work ethic get a person more success in life than inborn gifts.

I would also recommend Lisa Block's 'Transforming the Difficult Child Workbook' as she gives great encouragement to parents to praise in a way that is irrefutable, designed to get around low self image, and can be done for both at the same time. You can shape your children's attitudes and behavior. You can create a home where the 'biggest excitement' is triggered when either child shows greatness of character - including cooperation and nurturing.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Grinity
You are wise AND psychic! DD/DS's teacher just told me that DD needs to be tested for GATE for next year. DS took the WISC privately and I think that's the way to go with DD. And...let the hothousing begin! She will be taking some online classes this summer and a class in kitchen chemistry cooking and math games for 5/6 graders nearby. I will be doing workbooks on 5/6 math and English with her and work on keyboarding. And she is now registered for the EXPLORE in October.

She will still have gymnastics practice 4 nights a week, 3 hrs a night so it will be a busy summer! I just had my knee replaced so I will be able to stay home with the kids for the summer.

As a cute aside, Friday DS was called to the principal's office re an incident on the bus where boys were smooshing rotten bannanas on the floors/seats. DS was sitting in the middle of it but wasn't involved, and was called in to give his side of the story. (He forgot the buses have video tapes going at all times) He was so upset, has never been in trouble in school and came back to class shaken and teary. DD was so concerned, she rallied several other kids from their bus, they marched into the principal's office and said her brother was NOT GUILTY (DH is an attorney .

Oh, and thanks for the referral of Trnasforming the Difficult Child Workbook. It is ordered and on its way!

Thanks and more thanks,
M & M's Mom

Yessss! ((fist pump!!!!)) Let the Games Begin!!! Go Team DS/DD!
Go private testing!! Go Mamma Healing!!

Have a great summer!
Grinity