Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment New here and would love input. WISC and WIAT?

Hi Perplexed,


I appreciate you sharing your story - I'm sitting here with tears because I have felt alone and unsure of my observations. Although it's probably rather selfish to be scared right now and I realize this is nowhere near the worst thing one could experience as a parent - it's still difficult when you want the best for your child and can't come up with immediate answers. Wish I would have moved from lurking to posting on this board sooner - I am blown away by the support.


This is what we are looking to schedule and what prompted my orgininal post because the cost is insane, I have so many questions and doubts, and I want to ensure we are taking the appropriate steps. The Dr. will meet with us for a 3rd session after the 2 testing sessions for WISC and WIAT providing a comprehensive evaluation. I'm glad to hear it has been successful for you and your relationship with your son's school. I'm encouraged that it has prompted the administration to partner with you on creating a plan that will provide opportunity for your son's success.

It does help, thank you!

Hi Susandj,
Interesting thought. Although it�s crossed my mind to have our son tested, we�re currently focused on our daughter due to specific concerns related to school.

While our son is strong in most areas, his area of exceptional strength is in math with particular emphasis in mathematical reasoning. He�s currently in the math and reading �pull-out� programs (focused on creative thinking & problem solving), along with advanced grouping for math & spelling.

This year, he placed 2nd in a regional math reasoning contest out of approx 1400 advanced math students (reasoning and computation combined) who started at the school level. Given this, I asked his teacher during our latest conference if he�s being challenged at the level he�s capable of and she believes he is.

I guess all of this is to say I�m hesitant to rock the boat (and perhaps this is errant thinking) because he�s doing well and enjoys school with a particular bent for math. I don�t know if his overall performance necessarily makes him an eligible candidate for a grade-skip because there are still areas that he works hard to master. Since I haven�t really given this consideration, perhaps I need to research further as a potential option.

I appreciate your comments!

If you have a university close to you, you may be able to have testing done by a grad student, proctored by a psychologist in charge of testing. The expense is nominal and it will give you a good jumpimg off point.

When looking at school options, keep in mind that just like all kids, GT kids are all different. Take some time over the summer to try to identify your DD's strengths and weakness' and advocate based on what you know. BELIEVE what your "mommy gut" tells you. All of us here have spent multitudes of time second-guessing, backpedaling and turning ourselves inside out about the decisions that we make. Worry about what comes next but be very careful about looking too far into the future. You will drive yourself crazy!

You will find people with kids on here that have taken every path. Subject acceleration, radical acceleration, homeschooling, afterschooling, unschooling or a little bit of everything mushed together.

My DS who is also 8 attends a charter school 1/2 day where he is radically accelerated to 6th-7th grade. I homeschool the rest of the day. But this wouldn't work for many. Only you have the information required to make the choices. You're the mom and you know her better than anyone.

Good luck and keep us posted!

Do you ever feel like you are inside a movie? How often can one hear 'I believe he/she is' from a teacher with a straight face.

OTOH, since your son is working hard (not counting handwriting and spelling) on a regular basis, and having fun, it's reasonable to keep him where he is and supplement at home - try websites for Khan's Academy and The Art of Problem Solving - look for http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Alcumus/Introduction.php

and let your DD play too.

There may be 'Math Circles' in your Metro Area - ask the parents of other kids you met at the competition ....Does anyone else know how to find the local Math Circle?

In most schools, there won't be much 'math reasoning' inside school until High School, even by a grade skip, although your school sounds like it may be different.

I think testing DS is a good idea, because I do think that you are have been surrounded by people who underestimate him. Perhaps you can get the testing without the 'interpretation' for less.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

This all sounds quite positive, although the possibility that the tester is confident because the tester is naive is very real. I have a great question that is polite to ask, that will tell you the difference in a flash:

more info on extended norms:
Hoagies' Gifted: Inventory of Tests - 7 visits - Mar 25
Harcourt Assessment WISC-IV Technical Report #7 WISC�IV Extended Norms � Recommended Extended norms are useful when a child's score is the maximum ( ceiling) ...
www.hoagiesgifted.org/tests.htm

Seriously if tester has no idea what you are talking about - run fast.

If tester gets all excited and starts blabbing like she has found a long lost friend - Yippee!

If tester starts giving away too much information about other people's children - run fast!

I just thought of this idea - Wise Ones, do you think it's workable?

Love and more love,
Grinity

Good idea Grins! If they aren't familiar with the extended norms, whether or not they need them it would indicate that they spend more time testing the other end of the spectrum.

I just have to say, what the heck is up with this high cost? I had an advocate helping me with my 2E - she specializes in 2E, she's a school psych and had run a school for 2E, she's up by Denver - and she cost $100/hour. If I'd had a W&W, it would have been about $600 with a good write up.

I also want to say WOW about your son taking 2nd in that math contest. That ain't no small potatoes. I remember testing a neighbor's child years ago, when I worked in our local school, and this gal had a 155. At that time, I really bugged the parents to put more effort into getting better schooling for her. The girl told me once they'd transferred her to a different school they chose, that she had always competed with certain local kids and hadn't realized how far below her they were (ok, she's not a jerk, she didn't put it that way). Anyway, now she graduated from MIT. I told this mom it's use it or lose it with brain cells and being as gifted as her daughter was is actually a responsibility. So there's a rant from the past. TxB, it's your son I'm talking about. I'd see if there isn't a lower cost option-love the grad student idea- and get both kids tested.

I really like the idea of gifted summer programs as a way to expose our kids to others at their level. My 2 younger ones are doing our local program, which includes a class on coke and mentos, alka seltzer rockets and a volcano cake. Who doesn't love this?!?

Thanks Grinity,

I've looked at Khan in the last few weeks and spent a good deal of time there today. I also showed the kids a couple videos and they seemed excited to see more. Alcumus looks like fun and I see we have a Math Circle group in a nearby city as well. Thanks for the leads - these are all very helpful ideas!

After tremendous feedback from this forum and discussing with DH, I belive it would be advantageous to get DS tested by someone who could adminster the test without the write-up. I'll ask the DR. we are planning to see for DD if she will perform the test w/o follow up consultation for DS. Should there be indication for subject accelearation, we can address more confidently with the school and find out what options they may be able to provide.

Yippee! TxB I'm so proud of you! Hopefully your Dr has worked with 15 or 20 kids who have needed the extended norms in the last few years and can do the testing for both kids. And provide good advice for Dd.

You have faced a lot of hard things very quickly.
Peace
Grinity

Dr. said she hasn't seen children who needed extended norms during testing. She specializes predominantly in Gifted/2E. I'm thinking DD wouldn't fall into the "extended norm" category as I can't imagine we wouldn't have noticed that level of giftedness long ago when she was much younger. As it stands, I'm already feeling a little stupid for not realizing sooner that she might have some educational needs beyond her classmates of the same age. Then again - she might just be a very strong reader with a great memory who happened to do well on her OLSAT (here I go again....).

With respect to cost, I made calls to several Dr's who came recommended by a variety of sources. Cost for testing, consultation and hourly rates were all within a very close margin of one another. At this point, I think we just need to go with someone who we feel comfortable with and who our daughter will most likely feel comfortable with. Who really needed that trip to Cancun this spring anyhow??

Just another huge thank you to everyone who has responded, taken the time to read my dither and comment/share personal stories. This forum has provided a huge show of support and encouraged me to "go with my gut" even though our concerns haven't necessarily been met with full recognition by DD's teacher. We're committed to finding out where DD is with respect to ability vs. achievement and I think both the WISC and WIAT will give a us better picture rather than the WISC alone. It's a good place to start and will try and get DS set up too!

Time to stop pontificating and simply pull the rip cord....